[champ]

Azath Vitr (D, on 04 October 2022 - 07:24 PM, said:

champ, on 04 October 2022 - 07:16 PM, said:

Cause, on 02 October 2022 - 04:34 PM, said:

I feel like this is a poor admission but I think I am watching this show because I have nothing better to do. Its terrible.

Spoiler

The Numenoreans riding to save the village. I feel like they wanted to mirror Rhohan saving Gondor but its doesnt work. Its wrong thematically. Gondor is the capital city of Men, the balwark against Sauron. Its location is well known and the forces gathering against took time and Gondor called for aid. Here somehow the Numenoreans arrived just in time to save the nameless village in the middle of nowhere. Did I miss somewhere maybe where they knew where to go. The scene of them riding full spead to get there is ridiculous when they shouldn't even know where to go.

Re how they knew where to go...

Spoiler

Halbrand tells them where to go at the mini war council, something about the enemy heading towards Ostirith.

Spoiler

And he knows exactly where they are... because he's Sauron?

Not clear whether it's just some random small village (my impression) or a significant strategic point (maybe, with the nearby elven outpost?) or a major settlement (doesn't seem like it---doesn't look like a large city or anything---but IDK, could be relative)....

Spoiler

I go back and forth on whether he could be Sauron, some of what he has done you can argue points towards that, the blacksmithing could be telling and he has serious beef with Adar but it could just be typical misdirection too. Potential he could be the King of the Dead or the Witch King... or his own unique character I guess...


With the village location, I took it that it was on the way or in the vacinity of the tower and a likely place for shenanigans. I cannot remember if it is stated or implied at the meeting that Halbrand knows Adar and what he will be up to.

This post has been edited by champ: 04 October 2022 - 08:45 PM

[Cause]

Spoiler

I don’t think that’s enough of an argument and either way shows how underdeveloped the world building is. Episode 1 Halbrand is already on a boat escaping the ravaging of his kingdom. However this city in the south lands which seems enough to know halbrand is the king didn’t know they were even under attack? The elven outposts had no idea despite that being their one job.

If the King had to felled surely more important cities (do they have) or military locations had to be attacked.

I mean if you think about the timeline too much, it’s even worse. The king sailed to numenor, they gathered and army and sailed back to middle earth and still the elves had no idea the south land was awash with orcs?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Episode 6

Spoiler

What I find bizarre about this is that I took a lot of good natured stick in the run up to this about how long I was going to last before getting annoyed with the departures from Tolkien... and that hasn't been what annoys me or makes me dislike the show at all. I've so little energy left after everything wrong with it under its own steam that I never really get to the differences from the lore.

Tentative praise for there being more going on... but I'm not going to say most of what was going on was particularly well exectuted.

Elendil remains wonderful, enjoyed his little scene with Isildur and the horse.

I actually liked the creation of Mount Doom. Didn't see it coming and it was genuinely interesting.

Adar is the single most interesting character and I'm going to be genuinely annoyed if he's dead. I'd say he's the only new character I actively want to know more about. Joseph Mawle is doing a great job. Ther'e's a lot of very, VERY iffy dialogue and I'd say he's the only actor who's consistently making it land for me.

I've seen multiple write ups claiming Arondir's one on one with the huge orc was AMAZING... and I think they watched something differnt to me. It was... fine? To be honest most of the battle before Numenor arrives was suffering from Battle of Winterfell-itis (though not as bad) in terms of it being too dark. Not sure if anyone else is finding this but there's been a few times we've had to knock all the lights off in the room to be able to see what's going on in a scene, and then only just. I did enjoy the horrible moment when the villagers realised they've been fighting their own dressed as orcs.

Lost count of how many times we were both saying "Someone check that package..... please check it.... someone??"

Cannot express how much I don't like Halbrand. I'm coming round to the theory he is Sauron the longer I watch though. Which makes that weird romantic vibe scene with Galadriel even more heinous.

Galadriel is getting actively worse. I don't think it's the actress' fault, but I am beginning to actively loathe the way she's written. Her dialogue is bad enough without continually being delivered as if her jaws are glued shut.

Mr Not a Blacksmith seems to be enjoying it more than me, but not by much. Will stick it out to the end of the series because it seems pointless not to with only two left. And I do sort of want to know who Meteor Man is.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 07 October 2022 - 07:09 AM

[Garak]

Ep 6 was unintentionally hilarious because of the orcs marching and chanting Nampat. Because it sounds like "N-am pat" which in Romania means "I don't have a bed". So the whole thing was hilarious.

[worry]

They should have reprised Where There's A Whip, There's A Way.

[Maark Abbott]

Unde e rom *whipCRASH* e moarte

[Tiste Simeon]

Renewed For 2 More Seasons, on 07 October 2022 - 07:42 AM, said:

They should have reprised Where There's A Whip, There's A Way.

Absolute banger of a tune!

[Tiste Simeon]

Episode 7!

Feel like for a penultimate episode they've left a lot of stuff for the final one...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Episode 7 was close to being very good in a couple of places (and some of the visuals were)... but they kept managing to botch it. Fire the directors/showrunners. And get some better writers. (One of the more memorably cheesy lines from the previews was worse in context.)

Spoiler

Could have titled this episode 'Pyromaniac's Delight'.


On reflection, Halbrand's wound shouldn't decrease his likelihood of being Sauron at all, unless there's some 'Sauron can't get (what seem like) festering wounds no matter what he's shapeshifted into' clause somewhere. OTOH still no mention whatsoever iirc of Sauron's shapeshifting abilities in the show....

[Tavvar]

Just caught up last night, and I'm not sure how they're going to get a satisfying conclusion in one episode. I know they're planning 5 seasons, and at this point I expect the Rings of Power to actually be next season. Though because of Sauron's meddling in the Rings, I'm not sure how it is going to work to reveal him, then do Rings next season where Celebrimbor doesn't recognize him. Though he did corrupt Numenor after they captured him, so that could work.

Overall I'm enjoying it, though I do hope the writers work to clean some things up for season 2, they've got some good pieces...

[Tiste Simeon]

Season Finale! Spoilers for reveals etc obviously.

Spoiler

Overall enjoyable though I'm not sure some of the storylines served much purpose. Like what was the point in Gandalf being there (I know timeline compression etc he shouldn't be in Middle Earth yet but leaving that aside for the moment) does this mean the other 4 Istari have landed somewhere? And those people in white looked like Nazgul but obviously couldn't be, I guess wraiths exist outside them?

Why did the sister of Isildur go to look at the Palantir? What was her point?

Halbrand being Sauron I guess makes sense but it also raises a lot of questions about what he's done over the rest of the series, now that this has been revealed... They still managed to squeeze in a bit of an "he's influenced Celebrimbor to make them" plot though he left so quickly after that it hardly seems to count. I guess he's got the information he needs now to make the One Ring correctly.

The forging of the rings was a cool sequence, it makes me wonder who made the rings for the dwarves and men?

Overall I've enjoyed this show though I think the final two episodes were the weakest (episode 7 especially). It's clear there making it with a bigger picture in mind which is nice if a bit risky. I'll definitely watch the next season and hope they iron out some of the issues.

[Cause]

I’m free, don’t think I’ll be back for season 2.

This has destroyed lotr cannon. It not an adaption of anything.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Final episode... I lol'd multiple times. It's as if the director told the actors to be goofy---like the way one might read to a small child to make a story seem less scary or intimidating. IDK if Amazon thinks that will net them a larger audience (of small children---who will grow up watching, and continue through myriad spinoffs until they drop dead?...).

Spoiler

For example, opening scene, that look in Gandalf's eyes---it could have been good, but it's as if they instructed him to make it goofy, or found one of the silliest looking angles they could.

Would have been much better if the '"scary" nonbinary albinos' hadn't flat out said 'oh oops he's not Sauron sorry our bad'. Keep some suspense going. (Also, I don't like the idea that 'bald + breasts = evil'. Though 'albino = evil' matches nicely with the orcs I guess.)

The idea of them trying to trick Gandalf (or whatever Istari---almost certainly Gandalf though) into believing he's Sauron---perhaps planting false memories, getting him to commit atrocities, etc.---would have been interesting.

The visuals when Galadriel gets thrust under water were good. Some nice scenery too.

When I tried to write a review I got an error message... hmm. Guess I'd give it two stars if I'm being generous (since one and a half isn't an option... IDK maybe one and a sixth).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 October 2022 - 12:39 AM

[Tavvar]

I thought the finale was great and am eagerly looking forward to Season 2 (whenever they get around to releasing it)! Lots of setup going on for future seasons, and I think they can do more with each of the characters now that they have set up the story. I really like that they are adding enough flaws to the Good characters, and a few positives to the Bad characters to at least make them more interesting that the standard Middle-Earth Good vs Evil.

They've had to do a lot of compression to the storyline to fit 3000 years of history into a 5 season show, so I do not mind the alterations they have had to make to the book canon for a tv series (300 years on Annatar working with Celebrimbor would be incredibly boring).

There are definitely some things they can improve with writing and characters, but I think they will be able to do it, and I think future seasons could be really good.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 20 September 2022 - 01:23 PM, said:

This story needed to be told like INFINITY WAR....we needed to see this through Sauron's actual eyes (he should not have been hidden from us as a lazy set of red herrings) as he sets out to get the rings made and then make the One Ring eventually. That would at least be unique from what we've seen before.

'"Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven?" [...] "We're doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We'll fill in all the missing pieces."

[...] "Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He's evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he'd overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We're really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, 'This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!' In season two, we're giving it to them."'

[FULL ARTICLE CONTAINS SPOILERS]

'The Rings of Power' Writers: Sauron Is Like Walter White in Season 2

... but which canonical character will be his psychiatrist?... Guess the rings of power (among other things) will be his crystal meth?

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 October 2022 - 12:49 AM

[QuickTidal]

Sauron is not complexly evil. He’s literally the first lieutenant of the Middle Earth version of Satan. That’s a stupid take by the show runners…Morgoth and Sauron are forces of nature evil. They don’t have complexity. Like you don’t need to explore what makes them tick. What makes them tick is being evil for evils sake.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 16 October 2022 - 12:36 AM

[Tsundoku]

Maybe they wanted to show something other than a moustache-twirling villain?

I know the source material is a classic tale built on classic tropes, but I don't mind they tried something slightly different in this case.

Remember, Morgoth's pride and ego caused him to do what he did (Satan/Lucifer) and he was able to bring Sauron over because of his desire for order.
It all starts somewhere and maybe those traits never fully go away.

I dunno, I don't think it detracted much. There's far worse trangressions in this story as is.

Just IMHO, YMMV.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 16 October 2022 - 02:39 AM

[Malankazooie]

Season 2 will end with Sauron tossing a pizza on top of Barad-dûr while uttering the menacing line "say my name."

Didn't read the article but sounds like it is PR damage control to counter the criticisms that have been pretty constant through the first season. The - stay with us, great things are ahead / you ain't seen nothing yet - type of communication.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

We're watching the finale tonight, but watched episode 7 yesterday and it's the first one I can say I thoroughly enjoyed. Loved the thread with the dwarves, Lenny Henry made me genuinely chuckle a lot with the Harfoots and the aftermath of Mount Doom was good.

Overall, I'd say the show is far less than the sum of its (sometimes excellent) parts. Perhaps that will settle down in the next series.

I'm with QT though. I know 100% good and evil is an old fashioned mode of storytelling, but can anyone honestly say the LOTR films suffered from Sauron lacking nuance? He's a gigantic eye who wants to take over the world, and it detracts not one bit from the story or the sense of threat he poses throughout.

Good guys having flaws, fine. I will give it the chance but honestly I'm rolling my eyes at the idea of getting into Sauron's motivations.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 16 October 2022 - 06:18 AM

[Tsundoku]

Huh, something was bothering me and I figured it out.

Spoiler

Ep 7, watching Galadriel and Theo wandering about after Mt Doom blew it's load. Not only did they totally screw up Finrod's death much earlier in the first ep - I guess the bit they got right was the fact it was Sauron - but poor old Celeborn was killed off.
Totally contradicting the books and the movies. They actually didn't need to do that. Why would they? Poor form.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 16 October 2022 - 10:30 AM