[Tiste Simeon]

Episode 5!

Spoiler

I'm still enjoying. The scene of Galadriel teaching the young Numenoreans to fight with swords was great fun. I also really liked the talk between her and Halbrand in the forge.

The thing that did throw me out because I was giggling was the old Southlander man who wants to fight for Sauron. When he kills the younger lad, the younger one keeps calling him Waldric but it sounded like Baldrick haha and I thought how hilarious it would be to have Baldrick from Blackadder in this. "This tower will fall!"
"Don't worry, I have a cunning plan!"

For those who might know, is it in keeping with the lore that Mithril comes from a Silmaril?I know in LOTR Gimli talks about it a lot and how it made the dwarves very rich by selling it to the Elves etc.

Ooh also I am correct that Numenor eventually becomes Gondor right? Where does Rohan come from? I know geographically it's kind of in the middle but I'm not sure who's there now...

While I still think this show needs to pick up the pace somewhat it feels like things are finally beginning to converge. Still don't think we've met Sauron on screen yet.

[Tsundoku]

Tiste Simeon, on 23 September 2022 - 07:46 PM, said:

Episode 5!

Spoiler

For those who might know, is it in keeping with the lore that Mithril comes from a Silmaril?I know in LOTR Gimli talks about it a lot and how it made the dwarves very rich by selling it to the Elves etc.

Aw hell no. Nothing to do with silmarils. It's "just" an extremely rare earth ore.

Ooh also I am correct that Numenor eventually becomes Gondor right?

Sort of. The remnants of the faithful Numenoreans form it and Arnor in the North. The arsehole Numenoreans become the Black Numenoreans of Umbar and futher south.

Where does Rohan come from? I know geographically it's kind of in the middle but I'm not sure who's there now...

Non-Numenoreans from out of the northeast migrate into Caledarhnon (sp?), do some cool shit for the Gondorians and the King at the time gives it to them in return for being able to call on them for aid, hence the watchtowers and THAT CHARGE.

[QuickTidal]

Whelp….that’s it. I’m out.

The only thing I liked in that Ep was Nori’s song….everything else was more middling standing still storytelling.

Sad really, I wanted to love this show.

[worry]

Weird show!

[worry]

I think I dislike every single thing that's happening on Numenor. And every time I see Gil-Galad I have to remind myself it's not a Peter Serafinowicz character satirizing fantasy. I like the Harfoots, I like Elrond and Durin, and I'm going back and forth with the story line in pre-Mordor, but it's averaging out to 'okay'.

[QuickTidal]

Renewed For 2 More Seasons, on 25 September 2022 - 07:33 AM, said:

I think I dislike every single thing that's happening on Numenor. And every time I see Gil-Galad I have to remind myself it's not a Peter Serafinowicz character satirizing fantasy. I like the Harfoots, I like Elrond and Durin, and I'm going back and forth with the story line in pre-Mordor, but it's averaging out to 'okay'.

Indeed. Oh and the straw that broke the camels back? That mithril has something To do with the Silmarils….feck pff already show.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Episode 5 repeatedly gave me the sense I was watching CRPG cut scenes---and not particularly compelling ones.

[Tavvar]

I am quite enjoying it so far (far more than WoT or any other fantasy I've watched recently). I know enough of the backstory that I am enjoying seeing how they fill in the pieces to try and tell it, but I don't know the backstory well enough to care if they change it much or get it wrong. It's not as good as the LOTR movies, but definitely better than The Hobbit.

I'm stlll enjoying every storyline except the Harfoots, still not sure what purpose they serve. I like that they have given a way for explain why the elves seem to be rushing for the Rings (at least the reason they think they need it, and slowly working on how the Eregion Elves and Moria Dwarves were an exception to the general Elves and Dwarves mistrust/hate each other. I am enjoying seeing some of the squabbling in Numenor to set up that eventual fall. At this point I am expecting Season 1 to end with a Loss for the Good Guys (Elves and Men mostly) basically as just returns for many of the poor and arrogant decisions made so far.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Famous experimental poets (and critics, and professors) Ron Silliman:

'Rings of Power is chess
House of Dragons is checkers'

'This is a test.
[...]

Poets propose sky, only to fall back on cannibalism (downhill on a skateboard).
Crudely mechanical, an adjective grinds meaning from a noun forming the perfect countenance of Elvis on black velvet.
My pockets are a jungle.
[...] -- the construction is not parallel (taster's choice), pruned tree's new sprouts.'

And Rae Armantrout:

'I agree with you. The plot and characters of Rings are interesting—but to hear an elf say
“….is not an option” is grating.'

'The very flatness
of pictures
inspires nostalgia
in the connoisseur.'

[worry]

That’s an insane take. You can like both shows for whatever reasons appeal to you most, but Rings has ‘characters’ in the same way The Three Little Pigs has characters. Functional, yes. Legible, yes. Any depth, at all, whatsoever? Hardly. With maybe a couple exceptions, this show doesn’t have any people in it.

House of the Dragon has nothing but people in it. Well, and dragons.

So maybe Rings is like chess, with a really beautiful board and elegant pieces that follow a prescribed set of rules, but the comparison here wouldn’t be chess vs checkers, it’s chess vs a well crafted television drama.

[Malankazooie]

I'm way behind the current episode, so based on personal experience not sure what my overall reception would be if I was caught up. But, I guess the show runners have been pushing the idea that the show is a long burn and viewers should stay with it because it will payoff ..... eventually?

Based on that assessment, not sure I will continue until seasons are complete and the critics confirm that, yes, it pays off. At that point a binge watch would probably be an option I consider... or not, because I probably won't be bothered. Who knows.

HotD has that "muh stories" fix that made the linear advertised traditional soap opera formula appealing to a large demographic. I mean, that's why GoT was so popular and why to this day, the Walking Dead shows are still going. I'm expecting to see a commercial for Palmolive dish washing soap during HotD. "Tough of grease, easy on the hands."

This post has been edited by Malankazooie: 25 September 2022 - 09:58 PM

[worry]

Regarding the mithril:

Spoiler

I don't know what I think about the Silmaril angle. I guess I don't mind it, nor am I gonna complain about another magic tree in Middle-Earth, but I don't really remember the lore well enough to say if it's blasphemy or not in terms of the silmarils' fates. I get that it's all made up, but I'm fine with seeing where it goes. I actually do like the notion that the elves and the dwarves digging for mithril is the reason they delved too deep, it's a pretty decent idea in terms of filling in the gaps there.

[QuickTidal]

Renewed For 2 More Seasons, on 25 September 2022 - 09:42 PM, said:

That’s an insane take. You can like both shows for whatever reasons appeal to you most, but Rings has ‘characters’ in the same way The Three Little Pigs has characters. Functional, yes. Legible, yes. Any depth, at all, whatsoever? Hardly. With maybe a couple exceptions, this show doesn’t have any people in it.

I agree AND I'd like to add a little spice.

They are so bereft when writing the legacy characters that the ONLY thing they can think to do to fill out a character like Isildur is to take what we know about him from the LOTR - that he failed to destroy the ring in the end after he'd gotten it and didn't follow through, plunging the world into future strife - and use that to base his whole character around...so now Young Isildur doesn't have ANY follow through, hell even his friends know him to start shit and bail out on it. The whole point of Isildur not destroying the ring is that in the time he holds it after cutting off Sauron's finger...Men in ME are generally so weak that the ring IMMEDIATELY affects him and corrupts him into keeping it...."no follow through" is not an actual character trait that Isildur needs to telegraph that future decision.

Like I thought the red herrings of "who's this person?!" all over the place were bad writing, but the way young Isildur is constructed is straight amateur-hour.

Renewed For 2 More Seasons, on 26 September 2022 - 10:36 AM, said:

Regarding the mithril:

Spoiler

I don't know what I think about the Silmaril angle. I guess I don't mind it, nor am I gonna complain about another magic tree in Middle-Earth, but I don't really remember the lore well enough to say if it's blasphemy or not in terms of the silmarils' fates. I get that it's all made up, but I'm fine with seeing where it goes. I actually do like the notion that the elves and the dwarves digging for mithril is the reason they delved too deep, it's a pretty decent idea in terms of filling in the gaps there.

This fact has pissed off even the most generous Tolkien nerds who have been enjoying the show...

I'v heard some people posit a few things:

Spoiler

That the story is BS, and that's why Elrond says it's a fable with little backing, and some of them think it's Annatar already working behind the scenes to get shit done and he poisoned the tree and fed them the fable about he Silmaril and the corruption and the diminishing by spring shit.

So fandom is literally creating a bunch of "reasons" to explain some of the asinine decisions the writers have made thus far that would make it make more sense.

But yeah, even if they HAVE invented all this to do a rug pull that it was Sauron all along...like why? The story can be rich without a bunch of lies to make people compelled to watch each week.

I had also heard people suggest that the Arondir/Bronwyn/Theo/Adar &The Orcs portion is in a completely different timeline and Halbrand is grown-up Theo in the second future timeline...

But this shot from the 6th episode of the Numenoreans and the Southlanders fighting together blows that out of the water:

 TIL2.png (365.02K)
Number of downloads: 0

Overall I feel like people are giving the writers too much credit. That it won't play out lie we think we are seeing it play out....sadly, I feel it will and everything will be just as pedestrian as we think it is.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 September 2022 - 12:28 PM

[worry]

QuickTidal, on 26 September 2022 - 12:17 PM, said:

This fact has pissed off ... nerds

Actually I'm starting to like this show more.

[QuickTidal]

Renewed For 2 More Seasons, on 26 September 2022 - 12:45 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 September 2022 - 12:17 PM, said:

This fact has pissed off ... nerds

Actually I'm starting to like this show more.

To be fair, my point was more like "Even the people who are generally enjoying this show" didn't like this thing. These are not the really troll-like people who hate the show just to hate on it.

[Cause]

What nonsense plot device are they creating around mithril?

[Tiste Simeon]

Cause, on 26 September 2022 - 07:50 PM, said:

What nonsense plot device are they creating around mithril?

The Mithril is actually Sauron.

[worry]

Lol

[stone monkey]

I'm pretty sure the mithril thing is bogus - although I don't have a completely encyclopedic knowledge of Tolkien's Legendarium, I'm quite certain it would have come up in the things I have read and I would have remembered it. I get the storytelling impetus of connecting mithril to the Silmarils, and hence the light of the trees... It's a dumb decision, but understandable given the kinds of storytelling decisions they seem to consistenty make - i.e. figure out the most pointless way of a thing coming to pass and do that.

Although one could argue, if one wanted to stick strictly to the source, that the solution to the elves' problem could simply have been to shave Galadriel every so often and use the offcuts...
btw Glorfindel is not the only elf to have offed a Balrog; during the Fall of Gondolin, Ecthelion of the Fountains also nutted one to death with his pointy helmet (Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs, no less). Yes, I am a nerd

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 27 September 2022 - 07:48 PM

[Cause]

stone monkey, on 27 September 2022 - 07:47 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the mithril thing is bogus - although I don't have a completely encyclopedic knowledge of Tolkien's Legendarium, I'm quite certain it would have come up in the things I have read and I would have remembered it. I get the storytelling impetus of connecting mithril to the Silmarils, and hence the light of the trees... It's a dumb decision, but understandable given the kinds of storytelling decisions they seem to consistenty make - i.e. figure out the most pointless way of a thing coming to pass and do that.

Although one could argue, if one wanted to stick strictly to the source, that the solution to the elves' problem could simply have been to shave Galadriel every so often and use the offcuts...
btw Glorfindel is not the only elf to have offed a Balrog; during the Fall of Gondolin, Ecthelion of the Fountains also nutted one to death with his pointy helmet (Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs, no less). Yes, I am a nerd

I seem to recall Elves killing balrogs like it was nothing in the first age. It was a power scale shenanigan worthy of Malazan. Yes they were first age elven lords but there were several f those still around in the 3rd age too.