[Dolorous Menhir]

I thought you knew the books "in and out"?

[Cause]

It seems odd to me that the seguleh should be the army for a tyrant. For one they only respect martial prowess so unless the tyrans smacks the first dead they wont lift a figure I think. Second Mok gives a speech in MoI about how supremacy of self is all that matters. else they would be ruled by fools who used them for the good of others accomplishing nothing or ruled by tyrants who hid behind an army against evry challenge. It seems they dont like tyrants?

[Imperial Historian]

Yep the seguleh definitely don't seem to like Tyrants... and the T'orrud cabal and the eel in darjhustan seem to oppose tyranny, so i'd say the t'orrud cabal and the seguleh are allied against the tyrant, but in past times the Seguleh were probably ruled by the tyrant, and this is the army he would be looking for if he returned.

[Abyss]

Whatever the case, the Seguleh have changed from when the Soldier was actively Second.

- Abyss, actively First. At the bar.

[Shield Anvil]

tiam said:

TBH i cant remember were i got that from but im fairly sure it was in GOTM. havent got a copy but if ne1 can look it up?

'it has managed to survive three thousand years.’ (GotM, UK Trade, p.320)

I got this from Encylopaedia Malazica.
http://encylopaediam...com/Darujhistan

[tiam]

ahhhh 3000 instead i knew wasnt as old as menhir made out.

Thx for that quote as i havnt got my GOTM with me atm.

[Cause]

on a reread of the section I noticed that the mark on his mask is red yet it MoI we learn seguleh masks are a white base painted over in black. any significance. SE just not look up the colour. maybe a 100 years ago they used read?

[tiam]

maybe it shows he used to hold the position but now doesnt? it seems likely that they freshly paint there masks regularly as we see Mok and co do it in MOI. therefre maybe he was cut down by e.g. skinner who then became the seguleh second got a new mask with a black slash and a red slash was painted over the seguleh one.When hood brought him back he gave him his mask. I assume they bury them with the masks and weapons and so he wold have had his red tinted mask with him Also was the seguleh second/soldier guy actually a seguleh. i cant remember much of the description about him but there supposed to be short and lithe arent they?

[Cause]

no he calls the seuguleh mortal kin so yes hes a seguleh but he hold them in contempt. He seems to know more of some truth than they do

[tiam]

hood probably informed him of the seguleh illustrious history like karsa fallen teblor. maybe the seguleh used to be tyrants.

Ok crazy theory the seguleh used to be tyrants of genabackis. they had a massiv continent of the warrior caste. but then people started turning up. of course the seguleh killed them. but then more came and then more and then more until the seguleh, tired of mass slaughter as it stains the mind (MOI Mok moaning about seerdomin amusing the lower schools of seguleh.) decide to leave and live on their island away from the humans. They then forget this like all civilisations of past glory and live happily on there island

[tiam]

i find the thought of skinner being a woman and your other speculation interesting however i believe that skinner killed the seguleh second when he was missing and became the seguleh second. then hood goes from there.

[Cause]

she left one alive refers to poliel

Its more likly he hunts skinner for hoods reasons not a personal vendetta.

[tiam]

yeh but it coul be a bit of both. the seguleh eager to test his new hood enhanced powers (all warriors are beter when they have a patron ala dassem ultor) and take revenge against skinner. aswell as hood waning avowed dead for cheating death with there semi imass ritual

[Morgoth]

The Seguleh 2nd would seem to have been dead for a long time considering how out of touch he is with world affairs, so I think he would have had ample time to test out his power beforehand.

That the hunt is an order from Hood and not a personal Vendetta (at least not entirely) is implied through his parting scream: The part where he calls Skinner "Cheater of death". One would think one who cheat death would come high on Hood's death list, no?'

The second also described the mages of Darjuihstan as undying. So, it would seem as if it is not just a title for Baruk and Mammot, they actually seem to be undying. However, if the city is no more than 3.000 years old, then by Malazan standards they aren't very old

[tiam]

maybe they wandered before te city. theres older cities on genabackis i think.

i agree that it is most likely Hoods own vengeance that wants skinner tho. As for baruk and co, if there so old and there fore powerful like obo on malaz island, thenm how come vorcan who no doubt a good assasin and high mage can take down baruk and derudun so easily

[Morgoth]

their skills do not necessarily need to be battle aspected. There are many ways to ascendancy, and many kinds of power, eg. the Fisherman in NoK. In addition, Vorcan seemed to be more than the average mage.

[Bonairian]

Skinner is a man, in MT the CG was happy that Iron bars killed Rhulad and not skinner because HIS attention might prove fatal........

( not exact wording but something like that)

[tiam]

i am not doubting that vorca is a very proficient mage but on the good old reliable theory that 'old is more powerful than new' (the whole degradation of power thingy thats in every book) then surely they would be more powerful. i agree that they could not be combat mages and they could have been like karpolan demasand who only traverses the warrens but it adds proof that i do not beleive they are old mages. they may be around a century old but i do not beleive that was what the second was talking about. as for there being many paths to ascendency in GOTM we see that baruk hasnt traversed the driss warren which is quite a commonly used warren i think so he cant really be a traveller the the Trygalle Trade Guild

[Morgoth]

well actually. The trend of the book is that new defeats old. Ancient gods and races are pulled down and destroyed by mortals. Raest is killed by birdgeburners and so on. Power does not degrade, it just..changes. Korlat was shocked by Tays strenght at Koral, QB had Hood's balls in his grip, so to speak, Karsa killed both Deragoth and a Short Tail, and so on and so forth.