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Lets anaylise what the Soldier of Death said to Cutter:
It seems that the Seguleh are being held in reserve, and that Soldier of Death is most likely the lost Second Seguleh.
The Seguleh are linked to the Tyrant and so are the T-orrud Cabal of Darujhistan. The Seguleh were this tyrants army. Anyone got any clues who this Tyrant is?
As I don't have the book on me at this moment, am unable to put up exact quotes.
Soldier of Death, Seguleh, T'orrud Cabal Analysis
#1
Anomander Rake 
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:51 AM
#2
caladanbrood
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 12:10 PM
Well, the tyrant was talked about in GotM. He was the one who united all the little fisher villages into the city, iirc. A pretty unpleasent figure though, and I think it was Icarium who came to remove him in the end - the same time he gave them his date wheel.
Then again, it may have been in MoI it was talked about. Not having read either for quite a while, I can't remember in detail. He was never actually named though, I know that.
I think it's reasonable to assume that the Cabal either fought with him, or fought to bring him down. Maybe they betrayed him in his defeat?
Then again, it may have been in MoI it was talked about. Not having read either for quite a while, I can't remember in detail. He was never actually named though, I know that.
I think it's reasonable to assume that the Cabal either fought with him, or fought to bring him down. Maybe they betrayed him in his defeat?
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
#4
Rat Mentor
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 04:54 PM
I would imagine it would be the first, after all he still has his mask.
#5 Guest_malaz3_*
Posted 15 March 2006 - 06:19 PM
The seguleh base their ranking on skill, not on being alive or not - just because the second is dead doesnt mean he isnt worthy of the title.
#6
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 06:28 PM
It should be obvious that dead Seguleh no longer occupy a place in the heirarchy, otherwise duels to the death would be rather pointless.
I believe the Soldier was the Second in life, and whoever killed him became the Second. The "missing Second" of MoI is either the Soldier - and the island Seguleh don't know he's dead, and therefore supplanted by his killer - or his replacement, who IS known to the island Seguleh (but obviously has gone AWOL for unknown reasons).
For all we know the Soldier could have been dead for thousands of years, and there have been many Seconds since his death. But for reasons of story I would assume he fell to the current Second. (but, there is evidence he's been dead a long time: he doesn't know anything about current affairs on Genabackis...indicates he's been out of touch for a while)
As for the actual question in the post, I'm not sure, the dialogue seemed carefully constructed to leave things ambigious. I get the sense the island Seguleh are supposed to be an army, primed for the return of the Tyrant, to work for the Tyrant...primed to take over Darujhistan? All Genebackis? While the T'orrud Cabal are opposed to the Tyrants.
And given the amusement of the Soldier, the Seguleh must be in the dark about something, maybe the Tyrant is never coming back.
That analysis could be wrong though, it's hard to say from what we're given about the three groups.
I believe the Soldier was the Second in life, and whoever killed him became the Second. The "missing Second" of MoI is either the Soldier - and the island Seguleh don't know he's dead, and therefore supplanted by his killer - or his replacement, who IS known to the island Seguleh (but obviously has gone AWOL for unknown reasons).
For all we know the Soldier could have been dead for thousands of years, and there have been many Seconds since his death. But for reasons of story I would assume he fell to the current Second. (but, there is evidence he's been dead a long time: he doesn't know anything about current affairs on Genabackis...indicates he's been out of touch for a while)
As for the actual question in the post, I'm not sure, the dialogue seemed carefully constructed to leave things ambigious. I get the sense the island Seguleh are supposed to be an army, primed for the return of the Tyrant, to work for the Tyrant...primed to take over Darujhistan? All Genebackis? While the T'orrud Cabal are opposed to the Tyrants.
And given the amusement of the Soldier, the Seguleh must be in the dark about something, maybe the Tyrant is never coming back.
That analysis could be wrong though, it's hard to say from what we're given about the three groups.
#7
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 07:03 PM
He could already have been undead when he became the Second..
#8
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 07:10 PM
Not if it he got the position the same way Baudin did...
#9
Illuyankas
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 08:01 PM
My theory is either;
1. Skinner killed him, and the Soldier is after him for vengence and for Hood's orders to kill all Avowed, OR,
2. Dassem killed him as Hood's Mortal Sword, Hood took his soul for a place in his house and sent him (and others) on this Avowed hunt.
Either Skinner or Dassem could be the 2nd, they're skilled enough and (apparently) neither can best the other yet, though this is without Dessembrae power for Dassem.
1. Skinner killed him, and the Soldier is after him for vengence and for Hood's orders to kill all Avowed, OR,
2. Dassem killed him as Hood's Mortal Sword, Hood took his soul for a place in his house and sent him (and others) on this Avowed hunt.
Either Skinner or Dassem could be the 2nd, they're skilled enough and (apparently) neither can best the other yet, though this is without Dessembrae power for Dassem.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#10
Arkmam
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 08:02 PM
What if the soldier is not dead? Gethol was the Herald of Death and he is very much alive.
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#11
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 08:07 PM
Read his description again. He doesn't exactly glow with life, and neither does his horse.
#12
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 08:12 PM
He's dead..so's his horse.
He holds the mask.. he's a Seguleh.. with all that it entails.. their code etc.
If someone had beaten him, he would no longer hold the mask, and not refer to them as kin...
edit : heheh sorry cross posting
He holds the mask.. he's a Seguleh.. with all that it entails.. their code etc.
If someone had beaten him, he would no longer hold the mask, and not refer to them as kin...
edit : heheh sorry cross posting
#13
Illuyankas
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 08:18 PM
He could be off to deliver the mask to the Living 2nd...
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#14 Guest_Dakkareth_*
Posted 15 March 2006 - 10:57 PM
"Ah, Skinner, HERE you are, I've been looking for you everwhere! I have this wonderful mask for you, which you forget to take with you when last we met ... after all, whoever kills the Seguleh Second attains that position."
Three seconds pass. Skinner tries on the mask.
"Perfect! And now I take back what's mine ..."
*Soldier of Death proceeds to try and beat the crap out of Skinner*
Three seconds pass. Skinner tries on the mask.
"Perfect! And now I take back what's mine ..."
*Soldier of Death proceeds to try and beat the crap out of Skinner*
#15 Guest_BaconFathom_*
Posted 16 March 2006 - 12:18 AM
But the Seguleh are kind of weird about masks aren't they? Rake is still Seventh after yonks... and if the Second has been missing for ages that would explain that comment about the First getting uncomfortable with Mok - doesnt matter how long the guys been gone, hes still the Second until some other guy with a sword officially gets him and is recognised by them. Its after midnight my brains not working i think im trying to say i dont think theres some other living second out there kicking lesser mortal ass!
#16
stone monkey
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Posted 16 March 2006 - 01:23 PM
The Seguleh ranking system seems to be, you beat the guy with the mask you get the mask. Presumably the reason Mandy's still 7th after all this time is that he hasn't picked up his mask so can't be officially challenged.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell
#17
Illuyankas
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Posted 16 March 2006 - 01:46 PM
Even though as the guy he beat had seven slashes on his mask, Rake should be the Eighth... Mr. Erikson miscounted somewhere along the line.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#18 Guest_malaz3_*
Posted 16 March 2006 - 07:35 PM
Dolorous Menhir said:
It should be obvious that dead Seguleh no longer occupy a place in the heirarchy, otherwise duels to the death would be rather pointless.
I think a dismembered corpse with no soul and no life is in a slightly different position to the seguleh second. No one has beaten him, hence he is still the second - the seguleh are probably well aware that he's alive.
#19
Tiger_sword
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Posted 16 March 2006 - 07:51 PM
Prehaps as part of hoods house he must not wear the mask as it would attract unwanted attention but he still keeps it because he is the second.
#20
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 16 March 2006 - 07:52 PM
malaz3 said:
I think a dismembered corpse with no soul and no life is in a slightly different position to the seguleh second. No one has beaten him, hence he is still the second - the seguleh are probably well aware that he's alive.
He's dead. Somebody must have beaten him.
