[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 13 November 2023 - 03:43 PM, said:

"Every time we do something, you say the US will do this or that, let me tell you one thing clearly...Don't worry about the United States. We jews control the United States and Americans know it." ~Ariel Sharon, Israeli PM 2001-2006 (or as I like to refer to him, the Butcher of Sabra & Shantil)

You may have noticed I droped out of this thread. It wasnt a good use of my time.

However if you could find me an actual source for an Israeli Prime Minister admitting to one of the worst anti-semitic tropes in history I would be grateful.

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 13 November 2023 - 07:09 PM, said:

Cause, on 13 November 2023 - 07:00 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 November 2023 - 03:43 PM, said:

"Every time we do something, you say the US will do this or that, let me tell you one thing clearly...Don't worry about the United States. We jews control the United States and Americans know it." ~Ariel Sharon, Israeli PM 2001-2006 (or as I like to refer to him, the Butcher of Sabra & Shantil)

You may have noticed I droped out of this thread. It wasnt a good use of my time.

However if you could find me an actual source for an Israeli Prime Minister admitting to one of the worst anti-semitic tropes in history I would be grateful.

Sure thing. Funnily this is one of the tamest things he ever said in a Long history of shitty evil things...the shit he did and the things he said back when he was defence minister in the 80's were so much worse....EDIT: Note that I could note these things too, but I'd have to dig into the footnotes of Rashidi's book to find the actual sources that got released in the 2000's to then public, let me know if you want me to. It's no problem.

Anyways, this quote was from October 3rd, 2001 (IAP News)

https://www.wrmea.or...ol-america.html

I didn't ask the question without knowing the answer. So please, yes do provide the primary source I must insist.

Otherwise I must reject the Islamic Association of Palestine (Hamas linked) reporting from 'occupied Jerusalem' as a credible source. It doesn't give you a moments pause to wonder why an Israeli radio station reporting that a prime minister of Israel openly admitting to one of the oldest and most repeated anti-semitic slanders in history wasn't picked up by anyone else. No other media in Israel or America seemed to think it was news worthy.

You have chosen your side and I wont try and convince you otherwise but I will ask you to try and maintain some perspective. You were already called out once for reposting an obviously fake story.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, stop flooding this thread with this stuff. Objecting to each individual thing with a post is going to eat so much time and attention.

Yes, there's phenomenal amounts of BS being pumped out. You responding to each piece of it is going to lead to burnout and exhaustion in me at least.

[QuickTidal]

@ Cause: I've deleted my longer reply. You dispute the source, I understand that. Let's leave it at that.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 November 2023 - 06:03 PM

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 14 November 2023 - 05:45 PM, said:

QuickTidal, stop flooding this thread with this stuff. Objecting to each individual thing with a post is going to eat so much time and attention.

Yes, there's phenomenal amounts of BS being pumped out. You responding to each piece of it is going to lead to burnout and exhaustion in me at least.

Noted. Thanks Amph.

Deleted all the recent posts with articles and otherwise. Was not trying to cause any burnout in people here. Was just trying to speak up for the relatively voiceless civilians in Gaza, but perhaps I'm not going about it right.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 November 2023 - 06:06 PM

[Gorefest]

It is pretty much preaching to the converted. I think most people here agree that Hamas is shit and they committed a horrible atrocity; that Netanyahu and his ultra-zionist cronies are shit and are currently committing horrible atrocities in response; and that the Palestinian people are caught in the middle and suffering. No news there, it is the umptieth recurrence of this in decades and there is very little anyone of us can do about it. Until there is a genuine desire from a majority on both sides of the separating line to work towards a two-state solution, this will never end. There is too much geopolitical and religious shittery tied up in it all.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 14 November 2023 - 06:32 PM

[Abyss]

Gorefest, on 14 November 2023 - 06:31 PM, said:

It is pretty much preaching to the converted. I think most people here agree that Hamas is shit and they committed a horrible atrocity; that Netanyahu and his ultra-zionist cronies are shit and are currently committing horrible atrocities in response; and that the Palestinian people are caught in the middle and suffering. No news there, it is the umptieth recurrence of this in decades and there is very little anyone of us can do about it. Until there is a genuine desire from a majority on both sides of the separating line to work towards a two-state solution, this will never end. There is too much geopolitical and religious shittery tied up in it all.

Accurate.

[worry]

The same is true of the Russian Invasion thread, but it's still a valuable place for people who agree with one another to discuss vital current events, including some pretty fine minutiae (again, not a complaint, I think it's great). And I find a lot of what QT is posting to be valuable. That said, that many posts in a row can be overwhelming, and I don't think what Noah Schnapps is up to is very pressing, so I would advise pacing one's self too. And I'd always advise double-checking sources. The Ariel Sharon quote is a fake -- an old one, it's not like it was invented due to current events, so it's both not surprising and also still unfortunate that it's bubbling up again now. Besides, you don't need false quotes from Sharon when you have what Netanyahu actually did say on camera.


Anyway, QT -- you were on a tear this morning, maybe find a happy medium in terms of volume. I think part of Amph's concern is that you'll burn yourself out too. I'm sure you're doing so already, but remember to keep some energy in your tank for real world action as well. If you've written or called someone in power already, do it again. Repeat yourself if necessary. That's where volume is gonna matter most. And who knows, I could very well be wrong about Noah Schnapps.

[worry]

(And just to raise one point, that I don't think is pedantic and hope isn't taken as such, because I know it wasn't meant as a compliment to either side, but there is real distinction to me here: I do not believe that the Palestinian people are caught between Hamas and Israel. I very much believe that Gazans -- across the board, including every man woman and child -- are the targets of Israel's bombardment. PM Netanyahu and his coalition's goals are exterminationist, whether by death or by expulsion. I have not been dissuaded from that view by any fraction, and in fact my belief has only been reinforced by everything I've seen and read since. Israel's Defense Minister announced today that they plan to be at this for months, and will eventually be targeting the south of Gaza as well. I don't say this to raise a fuss, but only to clarify.)

Anyway, in relatively more positive news, it's good to see this happening:

This post has been edited by worry: 14 November 2023 - 09:42 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

worry, on 14 November 2023 - 07:58 PM, said:

The same is true of the Russian Invasion thread, but it's still a valuable place for people who agree with one another to discuss vital current events, including some pretty fine minutiae (again, not a complaint, I think it's great). And I find a lot of what QT is posting to be valuable. That said, that many posts in a row can be overwhelming, and I don't think what Noah Schnapps is up to is very pressing, so I would advise pacing one's self too. And I'd always advise double-checking sources. The Ariel Sharon quote is a fake -- an old one, it's not like it was invented due to current events, so it's both not surprising and also still unfortunate that it's bubbling up again now. Besides, you don't need false quotes from Sharon when you have what Netanyahu actually did say on camera.


Anyway, QT -- you were on a tear this morning, maybe find a happy medium in terms of volume. I think part of Amph's concern is that you'll burn yourself out too. I'm sure you're doing so already, but remember to keep some energy in your tank for real world action as well. If you've written or called someone in power already, do it again. Repeat yourself if necessary. That's where volume is gonna matter most. And who knows, I could very well be wrong about Noah Schnapps.

I agree with all this. QT I enjoy reading what you post but I do get worried that the doom and fear inherent in such things will take a toll.

And yes, saying that is pretty much the height of Western privilege. We can take a step back and do something happy for a while, where the unfortunates in Gaza cannot. But it helps no-one if we end up getting manic over it.

We all know the genocidal, war crimes committing, evil Israeli state is wrong and needs to be stopped. We know Netanyahu is a vile a despicable authoritarian bellend. We also feel the helplessness of our position in feeling like we can do nothing. But sometimes for our own sake we need to take a breath.

[Maark Abbott]

I'm seeing a lot of Argentines doomposting today. Did they elect a Boris/Trump over there???

[Macros]

Yep, Trumpalino

[worry]

People hate the status quo, and they're selecting the dumbest people on the planet to fight it.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

Stocks, bonds rally over Argentine vote-winner's 'chainsaw' change pledges

Stocks, bonds rally over Argentine vote-winner's 'chainsaw' change pledges (yahoo.com)

Just what the world needs, Trumpists sprinting with chainsaws all around... just what the world needs to help it humanity burn (let's just hope the chainsaws don't melt faster than all the people!).

#TeamSkynet!

(To be clear, I'm kidding....)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 20 November 2023 - 05:01 PM

[worry]

In the face of erasure, a stark and straightforward address at the UN:



And some words I found moving, from renowned poet Mosab Abu Toha, taken hostage by Israel in the past day or so, as his family was fleeing south, as ordered.

[Lady Bliss]

So I’ve been reading stories suggesting that the weapons found at Al Shifa were staged. I could actually believe this. Why would Hamas leave their weapons behind?

[amphibian]

I look at it like this - what justifies bombing a bunch of hospitals and other ethnic cleansing things? Whatever that answer is, it's not this.

[Gorefest]

It is abhorrent. At the same time, Hamas have already demonstrated that they have absolutely no qualms with adopting the human shield approach, as in their eyes every Palestinian is already a martyr and should gladly die for the privilige of killing Jews and discrediting Israel because it is a straight ticket to heaven. Meanwhile, most of the leaders are sheltering safely abroad.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 21 November 2023 - 08:33 AM

[Abyss]

Lady Bliss, on 21 November 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

So I've been reading stories suggesting that the weapons found at Al Shifa were staged. I could actually believe this. Why would Hamas leave their weapons behind?

Because they're running for their lives, could care less what they leave behind, and it's easier to move through the streets full of enemy soldiers without guns and explosives in a bag likely to be searched at gunpoint.


But both sides are very well practiced at this. If Hamas is not there i expect Israel to produce something, and if Israel produces something i expect Hamas to call it fake, and supporters of both will insist their side is right.

amphibian, on 21 November 2023 - 02:54 AM, said:

I look at it like this - what justifies bombing a bunch of hospitals and other ethnic cleansing things? Whatever that answer is, it's not this.

Those answers only ever matter to the people ordering the thing done.

Gorefest, on 21 November 2023 - 08:32 AM, said:

It is abhorrent. At the same time, Hamas have already demonstrated that they have absolutely no qualms with adopting the human shield approach, as in their eyes every Palestinian is already a martyr and should gladly die for the privilige of killing Jews and discrediting Israel because it is a straight ticket to heaven. Meanwhile, most of the leaders are sheltering safely abroad.

The degree to which the Israeli response was predictable and Hamas leaned into it is infuriating. 'restraint' and 'proportionality' went right in the trash, just as everyone involved knew it would. Hamas knew what would happen, Israel knew what the consequences would be and went for it anyways.

[Gorefest]

I think in Western diplomacy circles there is a general sense that - regardless of how horrifyingly nasty and unpalatable this whole situation is - if Hamas is not pretty much wiped out completely in this push, this will just be an endlessly recurring issue. Which I assume is why they largely keep backing Netanyahu, despite the insane death toll and the targeting of civilians. On the flipside, even with Hamas out of the picture, this situation will never get resolved as long as Netanyahu and his ilk are in power on the Israeli side. It would need to be the Palestinian National Authority and an Israeli opposition party in favour of a true two-state solution (Yesh Atid?) to even nurture a glimmer of hope for improvement.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 21 November 2023 - 04:12 PM