[the broken]

There are plenty of electoral losses too, and the gains are overblown. Trump= Gone. Bolsanero=Gone PIS=Gone, Vox=didn't get into power in the first place. Lots of the big names have fallen.

[Garak]

Trump might be back. The Dutch elected a Trump clone and next year there are a lot of elections. The far right is being ignored by the other parties here and that might let them get more than anyone expects since voter turnout is generally low due to apathy. They are also pretty friendly towards Russia for obvious reasons.

[Maark Abbott]

Frankly, any gain for the hard or far right can never be overblown because any gain for them is too much. And unfortunately for the UK there doesn't seem to be a way out of it because we have no opposition (Labour are now very much on the Tory end of the spectrum) and none of the smaller parties could either win on their own or form a meaningful coalition.

[worry]

New Zealand just went "center right" and you know what that means...a fiscally responsible approach to problem solving where opposing parties can still reach across the aisle and meet somewhere in the sensible middle on important issues.

[Mezla PigDog]

UK should go Labour next year. Barring anything unforeseen happening. I feel like I'm tempting fate saying it out loud. Although I'm so left I barely want this incarnation of Labour in power but you have to be pragmatic about the lesser evil in our stupid electoral system.

The 'moderates' in the Tory party have given up and the hardcore are tactically hoping for a wipeout so one of their right wing brethren can rise from the ashes as leader. Plus they have a non-white leader and the state of the economy is a convenient reason for why the gammons can't vote for him without admitting they are racist.

The economy is so screwed Labour won't be able to make any massive improvements unless they go into decent left wing territory (electoral reform, taxing private education, tax reform so offshore shit is illegal etc) which I don't think Starmer has the bottle for but secretly hoping he does if he has a big majority. So Tories could be back in as full on Nazi's after 4 or 5 years.

There are some really decent MPs in the Labour party though so rather them than anyone else with a chance.

[Maark Abbott]

Mezla PigDog, on 24 November 2023 - 12:46 PM, said:

UK should go Labour next year. Barring anything unforeseen happening. I feel like I'm tempting fate saying it out loud. Although I'm so left I barely want this incarnation of Labour in power but you have to be pragmatic about the lesser evil in our stupid electoral system.

The 'moderates' in the Tory party have given up and the hardcore are tactically hoping for a wipeout so one of their right wing brethren can rise from the ashes as leader. Plus they have a non-white leader and the state of the economy is a convenient reason for why the gammons can't vote for him without admitting they are racist.

The economy is so screwed Labour won't be able to make any massive improvements unless they go into decent left wing territory (electoral reform, taxing private education, tax reform so offshore shit is illegal etc) which I don't think Starmer has the bottle for but secretly hoping he does if he has a big majority. So Tories could be back in as full on Nazi's after 4 or 5 years.

There are some really decent MPs in the Labour party though so rather them than anyone else with a chance.

I admire your optimism tbh. I'm not convinced things would be better under Labour and Starmer right now, but better the devil we know than the devil we know except blue, right?

[Abyss]

Canada is two years from our next Federal election (probably), but if it were held today I'm pretty sure our right wing 'Conservative' party would win. Possibly a minority gov, but still likely to win. Among other things there's a combination of voter disengagement and frustration w the current gov that would give the more hate/anger/convoy motivated right side an edge in numbers despite the blunt examples elsecountry that should motivate otherwise.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

To be honest I think the UK has a huge disengagement issue too. Though of those who will vote, I think Mez is right and it'll go to Labour. It'd be nice if it was with a big enough majority that they might have the spine to try some things the right wing press will hate, but we shall see.

[Maark Abbott]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 28 November 2023 - 07:19 AM, said:

To be honest I think the UK has a huge disengagement issue too. Though of those who will vote, I think Mez is right and it'll go to Labour. It'd be nice if it was with a big enough majority that they might have the spine to try some things the right wing press will hate, but we shall see.

I admire your optimism as well - but I'm still not convinced Labour could actually turn a win around. Their current tactic is poaching Tory voters with Tory to Tory lite policies, they've alienated the voter base that they mobilised back during the late '10s in doing so and the rest of the country is just so apathetic with the 'nothing will change' mentality. The only voterbase who is consistently motivated is the gammons.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Maark Abbott, on 28 November 2023 - 08:10 AM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 28 November 2023 - 07:19 AM, said:

To be honest I think the UK has a huge disengagement issue too. Though of those who will vote, I think Mez is right and it'll go to Labour. It'd be nice if it was with a big enough majority that they might have the spine to try some things the right wing press will hate, but we shall see.

I admire your optimism as well - but I'm still not convinced Labour could actually turn a win around. Their current tactic is poaching Tory voters with Tory to Tory lite policies, they've alienated the voter base that they mobilised back during the late '10s in doing so and the rest of the country is just so apathetic with the 'nothing will change' mentality. The only voterbase who is consistently motivated is the gammons.

And I might look silly come Spring 24/January 25, whenever we get an election. But if I didn't hope for better than what we've got currently I'd be pretty depressed, and Labour are the option we have. I'm not wholly convinced by them, but I'm hoping the last few years of complete chaos and the cost of living crisis will combine to mobilise enough people to vote for change, even if it's not as much change as would be ideal. The mind boggles that anyone could continue to vote Tory after the last few years.

[Tsundoku]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 28 November 2023 - 09:26 AM, said:

The mind boggles that anyone could continue to vote Tory after the last few years.

The American Republican base that consistently votes against their own best interests proves cognitive (if they can even cogitate) dissonnance is real, and yuuuuuge.

Probably that whole "fail to cogitate" thing.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 28 November 2023 - 01:21 PM

[Cyphon]

It'll be a tory lite Labour no matter what. Small majority, tory lite to keep swing tories. Big majority, they voted us on tory light policies so that's what people want...

Sigh.

This post has been edited by Cyphon: 28 November 2023 - 08:47 PM

[Maark Abbott]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 28 November 2023 - 09:26 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 28 November 2023 - 08:10 AM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 28 November 2023 - 07:19 AM, said:

To be honest I think the UK has a huge disengagement issue too. Though of those who will vote, I think Mez is right and it'll go to Labour. It'd be nice if it was with a big enough majority that they might have the spine to try some things the right wing press will hate, but we shall see.

I admire your optimism as well - but I'm still not convinced Labour could actually turn a win around. Their current tactic is poaching Tory voters with Tory to Tory lite policies, they've alienated the voter base that they mobilised back during the late '10s in doing so and the rest of the country is just so apathetic with the 'nothing will change' mentality. The only voterbase who is consistently motivated is the gammons.

And I might look silly come Spring 24/January 25, whenever we get an election. But if I didn't hope for better than what we've got currently I'd be pretty depressed, and Labour are the option we have. I'm not wholly convinced by them, but I'm hoping the last few years of complete chaos and the cost of living crisis will combine to mobilise enough people to vote for change, even if it's not as much change as would be ideal. The mind boggles that anyone could continue to vote Tory after the last few years.

Yeah I get that tbh. I suppose hoping every time that things would get better has burned me out a whole bunch tbh - but that's just what the Tories want. I still use my vote every time I can.


The mind has boggled every time they've won over the last few years, which is probably a huge source of my relentless cynicism.

[worry]

Quote

Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war — which Israel has named “Operation Iron Swords,” and which began in the wake of the Hamas-led assault on southern Israel on October 7 — has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature. These include private residences as well as public buildings, infrastructure, and high-rise blocks, which sources say the army defines as “power targets” (“matarot otzem”). The bombing of power targets, according to intelligence sources who had first-hand experience with its application in Gaza in the past, is mainly intended to harm Palestinian civil society: to “create a shock” that, among other things, will reverberate powerfully and “lead civilians to put pressure on Hamas,” as one source put it.

Several of the sources, who spoke to +972 and Local Call on the condition of anonymity, confirmed that the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed.

In one case discussed by the sources, the Israeli military command knowingly approved the killing of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in an attempt to assassinate a single top Hamas military commander. “The numbers increased from dozens of civilian deaths [permitted] as collateral damage as part of an attack on a senior official in previous operations, to hundreds of civilian deaths as collateral damage,” said one source.

Quote

Some are being instructed to go west, to the coastal area of Al-Mawasi. Others are being pushed further south, toward the Rafah crossing with Egypt. These evacuations appear to be in line with a leaked proposal by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to “thin” Gaza’s population, by forcing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians across the border into Egypt and via the sea to Europe and Africa.

In both locations, displaced families — often fleeing for the second or third time since the war began — are being left stranded on the streets due to a lack of shelter, totally exposed to Israel’s ongoing bombardment of all parts of the besieged Strip.

[worry]

[Mezla PigDog]

IDF are trying to make the people of Gaza so desperate that they contribute to the elimination of Hamas themselves. It is tactical to create the conditions to make it most likely for that to happen and they have a window to go as low as they think they can while they have international 'support'.

Call me a cynic but there is no way Mosad and the CIA won't have modelled how to get a population to turn. You can bet starvation is on that list.

[worry]

Ceasefire advocates, in and out of Palestine, calling for a global economic strike for Monday, December11 -- wherever you are, whatever that 24-hour period is to you. I know it's not always possible (or even useful, depending on field) when it comes to work or school. But I would encourage still respecting it economically in terms of (as close to) zero spending and any other transactions as you can, for the full day Monday.

[worry]

[worry]

AP LINK

Quote

The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group.

...



HOW MUCH DESTRUCTION IS THERE IN GAZA?
Israel’s offensive has destroyed over two-thirds of all structures in northern Gaza and a quarter of buildings in the southern area of Khan Younis, according to an analysis of Copernicus Sentinel-1 satellite data by Corey Scher of the CUNY Graduate Center and Jamon Van Den Hoek of Oregon State University, experts in mapping damage during wartime.


...

“Gaza is now a different color from space. It’s a different texture,” said Scher, who has worked with Van Den Hoek to map destruction across several war zones, from Aleppo to Mariupol.

[worry]

We've surpassed 1% of the entire population of Gaza exterminated since Oct. 7. According to the World Food Program, 1 in 4 households are already at "catastrophic" levels of hunger, with widespread famine on the horizon. A deliberate and open strategy, which also happens to be a war crime. We may have to create a new word to replace 'household' for folks whose house was blown up by Israel.

South Africa's case for genocide by Israel is damning -- which isn't a guarantee it will succeed, but good is worth doing regardless. The case will be heard January 11-12 at the ICJ.


Separately, Law for Palestine has compiled 500+ incitements of genocide from Israel. It currently includes those from decision makers, military personnel, and legislators. They have not yet added the other categories they're aiming for: journalists/influencers, former government officials, and public sentiments.