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I was hoping it wopuld be rake, but i guess we will get plenty of him come february again, so dont have to wait that long till we 100% are sure to get more definite Rake.
Abyss Just Finished Assail spoiler-free comments, then SPOILERS after the jump...
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#102
worry 
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Posted 18 August 2014 - 06:29 PM
Fisher is trying to mitigate his emotions when he's "is he/isn't he"ing Jethiss as Rake -- and I believe he fails, because it's clear that he hopes it's Rake. There's a nicely understated, honest bit of disappointment on his part when (IMO) he realizes -- and accepts -- Jethiss isn't the man he wrote his most popular work about.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
#103
tiam
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Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:50 PM
Whats interesting if it is Spin is that he might be considered the first son of MD like Rake was given in the Forulkan War. But with Silchas alive and Nimander as Rakes direct sucessor in Coral it will an interesting dynamic (that we might never see) for future books.
#104
Andorion
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 03:36 AM
Just finished Assail, it has just replaced SW as favourite ICE book. Thoughts later.Jethiss debate now!file:///C:/Users/EBANER~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif
Since that line aboutKef Tanar only came at the very end I had a couple of other ideas.......
1. My first thought,when Fisher was thawing him out and giving him clothes was that it was anothershade of Draconus. Remember the only thing we had to go with was hisassociation with a sword, and everybody forgets, Draconus is the character mostassociated iwith a sword among the Andii. Rake took Dragnipur from him and aswe saw in TCG, Draconus did not ditch the idea of an all-destroying sword ofdarkness. In fact when Fisher talked about shape-shifting all I could thinkabout was that Dark Phantom Dragon Shadow Draconus pulled of in TCg and howeverybody would crap their pants if he did it here. Sadly that didn't happen.Sigh........file:///C:/Users/EBANER~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif
2. I also consideredAndarist, coz as we now know from FoD, he weilded the original Andii swordVengeance/Grief..... though I considered him as a fairly low possibility
3. Nimander...comesclose to fulfilling the criteria....leader of the Andii, successor to Rake,also he did have two great battles in TCG, first when he and the other Soletakencharged the Liosan with Silanah, then, when they smashed through into theEleint storm of T'iam.....but again unlikely
4. Rake: this is probablythe most controversial option, the most divisive one and the one I like theleast. His sacrifice was poetic, perfect, final. Bringing him back back wouldbe an indignity. But all that aside, and judging from the end of the book thistime, he has to fulfill two primary criteria: First a battle before a gate,secondly Kef Tanar with the Seerdomin
Now I specifically donot believe that Jethiss had to be a resurrected Andii, but leaving that asideI submit that it is impossible to Resurrect Rake, because of the nature of hissacrifice
Rake had to dissolve his essence, his soul, his power to reopen the gate to Kharkanas, to get Mother Dark to turn her face. His death and sacrifice in TTH was not just the demise of his mortal body, but thedissolution of his essence as well. I think it unlikely that he could be be brought back.
Secondly the Kef Tanar games, were in my opinion Rake's attempt to keep tabs on Seerdomin as he suspected how important he would be later. Durav acted in his stead, using his strategies, but to me, Rake used Seerdomin as a tool rather than as a friend.
5. Spinnock Durav: in my opinon the most likely candidate. He led the Andii into battle onthe First Shore. He did not die there, in fact his fate is not mentioned, though interestingly he is not with the Andii group of Korlat and co. at the end of TCG. However his death and resurrection was not necessary. Loss of memory does not a resurrection indicate.
Moreover, he did play the Kef Tanar games and he was Seerdomin's friend
See me, Spinnock Durav, old friend. Noble friend. And let us share this laugh.
At my stupid posing.
I am mocked, friend, by my own pride. Yes, do laugh, as you so wanted to do each and every time you defeated me on our tiny field of battle, there on the stained table in that damp, miserable tavern.
You did not imagine how I struggled to hold on to that pride, defeat after defeat, crushing loss after crushing loss.
So now, let us cast aside our bland masks. Laugh, Spinnock Durav, as you watch me lose yet again.
Since that line aboutKef Tanar only came at the very end I had a couple of other ideas.......
1. My first thought,when Fisher was thawing him out and giving him clothes was that it was anothershade of Draconus. Remember the only thing we had to go with was hisassociation with a sword, and everybody forgets, Draconus is the character mostassociated iwith a sword among the Andii. Rake took Dragnipur from him and aswe saw in TCG, Draconus did not ditch the idea of an all-destroying sword ofdarkness. In fact when Fisher talked about shape-shifting all I could thinkabout was that Dark Phantom Dragon Shadow Draconus pulled of in TCg and howeverybody would crap their pants if he did it here. Sadly that didn't happen.Sigh........file:///C:/Users/EBANER~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif
2. I also consideredAndarist, coz as we now know from FoD, he weilded the original Andii swordVengeance/Grief..... though I considered him as a fairly low possibility
3. Nimander...comesclose to fulfilling the criteria....leader of the Andii, successor to Rake,also he did have two great battles in TCG, first when he and the other Soletakencharged the Liosan with Silanah, then, when they smashed through into theEleint storm of T'iam.....but again unlikely
4. Rake: this is probablythe most controversial option, the most divisive one and the one I like theleast. His sacrifice was poetic, perfect, final. Bringing him back back wouldbe an indignity. But all that aside, and judging from the end of the book thistime, he has to fulfill two primary criteria: First a battle before a gate,secondly Kef Tanar with the Seerdomin
Now I specifically donot believe that Jethiss had to be a resurrected Andii, but leaving that asideI submit that it is impossible to Resurrect Rake, because of the nature of hissacrifice
Quote
Wander no longer.
Anomander Rake, still standing, head tilted back, arms raised, began to dissolve, shred away, as the Gate took hold of him, as it fed upon him, upon the Son of Darkness. Upon what he desired, what he willed to be.
Witnessing this, Draconus sank down to his knees.
He finally understood what was happening. He finally understood what Anomander Rake had planned, all along – this, this wondrous thing.
Staring upward, he whispered, 'You ask my forgiveness? When you unravel what I have done, what I did so long ago? When you heal what I wounded, when you mend what I broke?' He raised his voice to a shout. 'Rake! There is no forgiveness you must seek – not from me, gods below, not from any of us!'
But there was no way to know if he had been heard. The man that had been Anomander Rake was scattered into the realm of Kurald Galain, on to its own long-sealed path that might – just might – lead to the very feet of Mother Dark.
Who had turned away.
'Mother Dark,' Draconus whispered. 'I believe you must face him now. You must turn to your children. I believe your son insists. He demands it. Open your eyes, Mother Dark. See what he has done! For you, for the Tiste Andii – but not for himself. See! See and know what he has done!'
Darkness awakened, the pattern grasping hold of the Gate itself, and sinking, sinking down, passing beyond Dragnipur, leaving for ever the dread sword—
In the Temple of Shadow, in the city of Black Coral that drowned in poison rain, Clip and the god within him stood above the huddled form of Endest Silann.
This game was over. All pleasure in the victory had palled in the absurd, stubborn resistance of the old man.
The rings spun, round and round from one hand, as he drew a dagger with the other. Simple, messy, yes, but succinct, final.
And then he saw the floor suddenly awaken with black, seething strands, forming a pattern, and icy cold breath rose in a long sigh. The sheets of spilling rain froze the instant each droplet reached the cold air, falling to shatter on the heaved cobbles and broken tesserae. And that cold lifted yet higher.
The Dying God frowned.
The pattern was spreading to cover the entire floor of the altar chamber, swarming outward. It looked strangely misshapen, as if the design possessed more dimensions than were visible.
The entire temple trembled.
Crouched on a berm at the crest of a forested slope, Spindle and Monkrat stared up at the sky directly above Black Coral. As a strange maze-like pattern appeared in the air, burgeoning out to the sides even as it began sinking down on to the city.
They saw the moment when a tendril of that pattern touched the sleeping dragon perched on its spire, and they saw it spread its wings out in massive unfolding crimson fans, saw its head lifting on its long neck, jaws opening.
And Silanah roared.
A sound that deafened. A cry of grief, of rage, of unleashed intent.
It launched itself into that falling pattern, that falling sky, and sailed out over the city.
Spindle laughed a vicious laugh. 'Run, Gradithan. Run all you like! That fiery bitch is hunting you!'
Aranatha stepped through, Nimander following. Gasping, he tore his hand free – for her grip had become a thing of unbearable cold, burning, too deadly to touch.
He stumbled to one side.
She had halted at the very edge of an enormous altar chamber. Where a bizarre, ethereal pattern was raining down from the domed ceiling, countless linked filaments of black threads, slowly descending, even as other tendrils rose from the floor itself.
And Nimander heard her whisper, 'The Gate. How . . . oh, my dearest son . . . oh, Anomander . . .'
Clip stood in the centre of the chamber, and he turned round upon the arrival of Aranatha and Nimander.
The rings spun out on their lengths of chain – and then stopped, caught in the pattern, the chains shivering taut.
Sudden agony lit Clip's face.
There was a snap as the looped chain bit through his index finger – and the rings spun and whirled up and away, speared in the pattern. Racing along every thread, ever faster, until they were nothing but blurs, and then even that vanished.
Nimander stepped past Aranatha and leapt forward, straight for Clip.
Who had staggered to one side, looking down – as if seeking his severed finger somewhere at his feet. On his face, shock and pain, bewilderment—
He had ever underestimated Nimander. An easy mistake. Mistakes often were.
So like his sire, so slow to anger, but when that anger arrived . . . Nimander grasped Clip by the front of his jerkin, swung him off his feet and in a single, ferocious surge sent him sprawling, tumbling across the floor.
Awakening the Dying God. Blazing with rage, it regained its feet and whirled to face Nimander.
Who did not even flinch as he prepared to advance to meet it, unsheathing his sword.
A fluttering touch on his shoulder stayed him.
Aranatha – who was no longer Aranatha – stepped past him.
But no, her feet were not even touching the floor. She rose yet higher, amidst streams of darkness that flowed down like silk, and she stared down upon the Dying God.
Who, finding himself face to face with Mother Dark – with the Elder Goddess in the flesh – quailed. Shrinking back, diminished.
She does not reach through – not any more. She is here. Mother Dark is here.
And Nimander heard her say, 'Ah, my son . . . I accept.'
The Gate of Darkness wandered no more. Was pursued no longer. The Gate of Darkness had found a new home, in the heart of Black Coral.
Lying in a heap of mangled flesh and bone, dying, Endest Silann rose from the river – thing of memory and of truth, that had kept him alive for so long – and opened his eyes. The High Priestess knelt at his side, one hand brushing his cheek. 'How,' she whispered, 'how could he ask this of you? How could he know—'
Through his tears, he smiled. 'All that he has ever asked of us, of me, and Spinnock Durav, and so many others, he has given us in return. Each and every time. This . . . this is his secret. Don't you understand, High Priestess? We served the one who served us.'
He closed his eyes then, as he felt another presence – one he had never imagined he would ever feel again. And in his mind, he spoke, 'For you, Mother, he did this. For us, he did this. He has brought us all home. He has brought us all home.'
And she replied in his mind then, her voice rising from the depths below, from the river where he had found his strength. His strength to hold, one last time. As his Lord had asked him to. As his Lord had known he would do. She said, I understand. Come to me, then.
The water between us, Endest Silann, is clear.
The water is clear.
Anomander Rake, still standing, head tilted back, arms raised, began to dissolve, shred away, as the Gate took hold of him, as it fed upon him, upon the Son of Darkness. Upon what he desired, what he willed to be.
Witnessing this, Draconus sank down to his knees.
He finally understood what was happening. He finally understood what Anomander Rake had planned, all along – this, this wondrous thing.
Staring upward, he whispered, 'You ask my forgiveness? When you unravel what I have done, what I did so long ago? When you heal what I wounded, when you mend what I broke?' He raised his voice to a shout. 'Rake! There is no forgiveness you must seek – not from me, gods below, not from any of us!'
But there was no way to know if he had been heard. The man that had been Anomander Rake was scattered into the realm of Kurald Galain, on to its own long-sealed path that might – just might – lead to the very feet of Mother Dark.
Who had turned away.
'Mother Dark,' Draconus whispered. 'I believe you must face him now. You must turn to your children. I believe your son insists. He demands it. Open your eyes, Mother Dark. See what he has done! For you, for the Tiste Andii – but not for himself. See! See and know what he has done!'
Darkness awakened, the pattern grasping hold of the Gate itself, and sinking, sinking down, passing beyond Dragnipur, leaving for ever the dread sword—
In the Temple of Shadow, in the city of Black Coral that drowned in poison rain, Clip and the god within him stood above the huddled form of Endest Silann.
This game was over. All pleasure in the victory had palled in the absurd, stubborn resistance of the old man.
The rings spun, round and round from one hand, as he drew a dagger with the other. Simple, messy, yes, but succinct, final.
And then he saw the floor suddenly awaken with black, seething strands, forming a pattern, and icy cold breath rose in a long sigh. The sheets of spilling rain froze the instant each droplet reached the cold air, falling to shatter on the heaved cobbles and broken tesserae. And that cold lifted yet higher.
The Dying God frowned.
The pattern was spreading to cover the entire floor of the altar chamber, swarming outward. It looked strangely misshapen, as if the design possessed more dimensions than were visible.
The entire temple trembled.
Crouched on a berm at the crest of a forested slope, Spindle and Monkrat stared up at the sky directly above Black Coral. As a strange maze-like pattern appeared in the air, burgeoning out to the sides even as it began sinking down on to the city.
They saw the moment when a tendril of that pattern touched the sleeping dragon perched on its spire, and they saw it spread its wings out in massive unfolding crimson fans, saw its head lifting on its long neck, jaws opening.
And Silanah roared.
A sound that deafened. A cry of grief, of rage, of unleashed intent.
It launched itself into that falling pattern, that falling sky, and sailed out over the city.
Spindle laughed a vicious laugh. 'Run, Gradithan. Run all you like! That fiery bitch is hunting you!'
Aranatha stepped through, Nimander following. Gasping, he tore his hand free – for her grip had become a thing of unbearable cold, burning, too deadly to touch.
He stumbled to one side.
She had halted at the very edge of an enormous altar chamber. Where a bizarre, ethereal pattern was raining down from the domed ceiling, countless linked filaments of black threads, slowly descending, even as other tendrils rose from the floor itself.
And Nimander heard her whisper, 'The Gate. How . . . oh, my dearest son . . . oh, Anomander . . .'
Clip stood in the centre of the chamber, and he turned round upon the arrival of Aranatha and Nimander.
The rings spun out on their lengths of chain – and then stopped, caught in the pattern, the chains shivering taut.
Sudden agony lit Clip's face.
There was a snap as the looped chain bit through his index finger – and the rings spun and whirled up and away, speared in the pattern. Racing along every thread, ever faster, until they were nothing but blurs, and then even that vanished.
Nimander stepped past Aranatha and leapt forward, straight for Clip.
Who had staggered to one side, looking down – as if seeking his severed finger somewhere at his feet. On his face, shock and pain, bewilderment—
He had ever underestimated Nimander. An easy mistake. Mistakes often were.
So like his sire, so slow to anger, but when that anger arrived . . . Nimander grasped Clip by the front of his jerkin, swung him off his feet and in a single, ferocious surge sent him sprawling, tumbling across the floor.
Awakening the Dying God. Blazing with rage, it regained its feet and whirled to face Nimander.
Who did not even flinch as he prepared to advance to meet it, unsheathing his sword.
A fluttering touch on his shoulder stayed him.
Aranatha – who was no longer Aranatha – stepped past him.
But no, her feet were not even touching the floor. She rose yet higher, amidst streams of darkness that flowed down like silk, and she stared down upon the Dying God.
Who, finding himself face to face with Mother Dark – with the Elder Goddess in the flesh – quailed. Shrinking back, diminished.
She does not reach through – not any more. She is here. Mother Dark is here.
And Nimander heard her say, 'Ah, my son . . . I accept.'
The Gate of Darkness wandered no more. Was pursued no longer. The Gate of Darkness had found a new home, in the heart of Black Coral.
Lying in a heap of mangled flesh and bone, dying, Endest Silann rose from the river – thing of memory and of truth, that had kept him alive for so long – and opened his eyes. The High Priestess knelt at his side, one hand brushing his cheek. 'How,' she whispered, 'how could he ask this of you? How could he know—'
Through his tears, he smiled. 'All that he has ever asked of us, of me, and Spinnock Durav, and so many others, he has given us in return. Each and every time. This . . . this is his secret. Don't you understand, High Priestess? We served the one who served us.'
He closed his eyes then, as he felt another presence – one he had never imagined he would ever feel again. And in his mind, he spoke, 'For you, Mother, he did this. For us, he did this. He has brought us all home. He has brought us all home.'
And she replied in his mind then, her voice rising from the depths below, from the river where he had found his strength. His strength to hold, one last time. As his Lord had asked him to. As his Lord had known he would do. She said, I understand. Come to me, then.
The water between us, Endest Silann, is clear.
The water is clear.
Rake had to dissolve his essence, his soul, his power to reopen the gate to Kharkanas, to get Mother Dark to turn her face. His death and sacrifice in TTH was not just the demise of his mortal body, but thedissolution of his essence as well. I think it unlikely that he could be be brought back.
Secondly the Kef Tanar games, were in my opinion Rake's attempt to keep tabs on Seerdomin as he suspected how important he would be later. Durav acted in his stead, using his strategies, but to me, Rake used Seerdomin as a tool rather than as a friend.
5. Spinnock Durav: in my opinon the most likely candidate. He led the Andii into battle onthe First Shore. He did not die there, in fact his fate is not mentioned, though interestingly he is not with the Andii group of Korlat and co. at the end of TCG. However his death and resurrection was not necessary. Loss of memory does not a resurrection indicate.
Moreover, he did play the Kef Tanar games and he was Seerdomin's friend
Quote
See me, Spinnock Durav, old friend. Noble friend. And let us share this laugh.
At my stupid posing.
I am mocked, friend, by my own pride. Yes, do laugh, as you so wanted to do each and every time you defeated me on our tiny field of battle, there on the stained table in that damp, miserable tavern.
You did not imagine how I struggled to hold on to that pride, defeat after defeat, crushing loss after crushing loss.
So now, let us cast aside our bland masks. Laugh, Spinnock Durav, as you watch me lose yet again.
This post has been edited by Andorion: 19 August 2014 - 03:36 AM
#105
worry
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 04:54 AM
Spinnock does have a "special" sword too by the way. A Hust-forged sword that was passed down through generations in his family, I believe. He muses on it a few times in TTH, about how he can't even imagine himself without it, and he cleans it fairly regularly. Then at the end of the fight with Kallor he deliberately gives up this sword (he tells Korlat to leave it where he dropped it). That doesn't necessarily explain why the FA chose to make the new one out of his arm. It's obviously in large part the FA sense of justice at play, but it still also seems to be a puzzle to be solved.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
#106
blackzoid
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:30 AM
Its waay too obvious to be Rake. Especially with the way Fisher/ICE was beating us over the head with the observations.
So I think thats supposed to be taken as a red herring and Jethiss is actually Spin. Especially with the games of Kaf Tenar mentioned at the end. Up until that revelation, I was going with some previously unmet son of Rake. Someone like Nimander
It does mean that Spin has since died off-camera but thats par for the course with ICE. Remember D'rek becoming a woman?
So I think thats supposed to be taken as a red herring and Jethiss is actually Spin. Especially with the games of Kaf Tenar mentioned at the end. Up until that revelation, I was going with some previously unmet son of Rake. Someone like Nimander
It does mean that Spin has since died off-camera but thats par for the course with ICE. Remember D'rek becoming a woman?
#107
Hocknose
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:32 AM
Where does it say in Assail that Jethiss died before he to came Assail...I don't remember that bit
I do agree with you that its Spinnock though
I do agree with you that its Spinnock though
This post has been edited by Hocknose: 19 August 2014 - 09:33 AM
#108
helgi
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:03 AM
Does the sword mentioned in "there was a sword" have to be a sword Jethiss had before becoming Jethiss? I always took it to be Dragnipur, and the Andii who had it to be Rake, no matter who Jethiss is.
It's a replacement for "Andii with a sword" rather than "Rake with Dragnipur" that they're asking for.
As for Jethiss dying before he came to Assail. I think it's just assumed that he drowned since he was found in the sea.
It's a replacement for "Andii with a sword" rather than "Rake with Dragnipur" that they're asking for.
As for Jethiss dying before he came to Assail. I think it's just assumed that he drowned since he was found in the sea.
This post has been edited by helgi: 19 August 2014 - 11:04 AM
#109
Gorgon
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 01:33 PM
Wasn't the portal to darkness on moon's spawn that was in the sea?
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Very well, permit me if you will, on this night. To break your hearts once more.
#110
Spoilsport Stonny
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 02:01 PM
Jethiss/Spinnock washing up on the shore is just straight up standard symbolism of rebirth. 99.999999% of the time when a character emerges or passes through water in literature, film, music, or art in general its symbolic of birth or rebirth. Jethiss was being born again as the new Son of Darkness. Did he drown, die or whatever first? Doesn't matter. He washes up where he needs to, unnamed and unaware.
Also, its not Rake.
Just kidding. It could be.
But it's not.
Also, its not Rake.
Just kidding. It could be.
But it's not.
Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
#112
tiam
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 06:26 PM
Gorgon, on 19 August 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:
Wasn't the portal to darkness on moon's spawn that was in the sea?
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Yeh that was a weird one.
Clip was able to access ancient Galain as Mortal Sword to Rake and claims that even Silchas couldnt access this gate, though maybe that was SD. This fit with what we knew at the time with KG being used as a warren but the gate for KG being in Dragnipur and being constantly moved. Then in OST we see theres an elder throne of night that allows access to ancient KG. Again this is a powerful artefact so that was fine, though we see that there still is a throne in Kharkanas that would fit this title but there being two isnt a big deal. Then it turns out that all the Andii can access KG and Kharkanas as they all leave in TCG though again this may have had something to do with the full unveiling in MOI blurring the realms and allowing them to return to Kharkanas.
There is no mention of Spinnock being Vitr memory wiped plus his re appearance as Jethis in a block of ice for some reason is a strange one.
Anyway its definitely Spinnock. Everything fits. The links to the sword being used to protect the Andii echoed Rake as did Fishers suspicions but its too obvious and the reveal at the end was it was Spinnock. Sorcerous power is simply a boon of MD.
#113
Abyss
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:43 PM
If we go with Spin, he was Rake's 'sword' in the sense that as of TtH, he was his finest agent. Now he's the Andii champion and also their sword, literally.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
#114
tiam
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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:32 PM
Abyss, on 19 August 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:
If we go with Spin, he was Rake's 'sword' in the sense that as of TtH, he was his finest agent. Now he's the Andii champion and also their sword, literally.
Does it have to be that symbolic? Cant it just be there was a sword, Dragnipur, that protected the Andii by protecting the gate of KG? So now they no longer needed that sword they may need a champion to protect the new gate wherever that may be.
#115
Andorion
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Posted 20 August 2014 - 03:38 AM
theocean, on 19 August 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:
rereading that part of rakes sacrifice made me all sad. Wish it were rake, thinking its not.
Actually whhen I went quote hunting for my post, I found myself tearing up again. Honestly Malazan...MoI, TtH, TCG, there will never be another series like this
#116
Andorion
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Posted 20 August 2014 - 03:40 AM
tiam, on 19 August 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:
Gorgon, on 19 August 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:
Wasn't the portal to darkness on moon's spawn that was in the sea?
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Yeh that was a weird one.
Clip was able to access ancient Galain as Mortal Sword to Rake and claims that even Silchas couldnt access this gate, though maybe that was SD. This fit with what we knew at the time with KG being used as a warren but the gate for KG being in Dragnipur and being constantly moved. Then in OST we see theres an elder throne of night that allows access to ancient KG. Again this is a powerful artefact so that was fine, though we see that there still is a throne in Kharkanas that would fit this title but there being two isnt a big deal. Then it turns out that all the Andii can access KG and Kharkanas as they all leave in TCG though again this may have had something to do with the full unveiling in MOI blurring the realms and allowing them to return to Kharkanas.
There is no mention of Spinnock being Vitr memory wiped plus his re appearance as Jethis in a block of ice for some reason is a strange one.
Anyway its definitely Spinnock. Everything fits. The links to the sword being used to protect the Andii echoed Rake as did Fishers suspicions but its too obvious and the reveal at the end was it was Spinnock. Sorcerous power is simply a boon of MD.
I think Rake's sacrifice had a lot to do with the Andii being able to access KG again. He engineered the opening of the gate, probably in Coral
#117
tiam
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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:30 AM
Andorion, on 20 August 2014 - 03:40 AM, said:
tiam, on 19 August 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:
Gorgon, on 19 August 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:
Wasn't the portal to darkness on moon's spawn that was in the sea?
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Did the spawn sink in ost? If so I'm still going with rake, he was spat out of the portal when it sank.
Tayschrenn survived a similar portal/washing ashore experience and emerged without memories and with a new name .....
Yeh that was a weird one.
Clip was able to access ancient Galain as Mortal Sword to Rake and claims that even Silchas couldnt access this gate, though maybe that was SD. This fit with what we knew at the time with KG being used as a warren but the gate for KG being in Dragnipur and being constantly moved. Then in OST we see theres an elder throne of night that allows access to ancient KG. Again this is a powerful artefact so that was fine, though we see that there still is a throne in Kharkanas that would fit this title but there being two isnt a big deal. Then it turns out that all the Andii can access KG and Kharkanas as they all leave in TCG though again this may have had something to do with the full unveiling in MOI blurring the realms and allowing them to return to Kharkanas.
There is no mention of Spinnock being Vitr memory wiped plus his re appearance as Jethis in a block of ice for some reason is a strange one.
Anyway its definitely Spinnock. Everything fits. The links to the sword being used to protect the Andii echoed Rake as did Fishers suspicions but its too obvious and the reveal at the end was it was Spinnock. Sorcerous power is simply a boon of MD.
I think Rake's sacrifice had a lot to do with the Andii being able to access KG again. He engineered the opening of the gate, probably in Coral
Ah indeed that might have helped with the embrace of MD. Still it was a strange sequence of events.
Did anyone else hear the Sea of Dread, the Dreaded Sea, the Sea that is Dreaded, the Dreadful Sea etc in the voice of the wooden pirate from Family Guy from the episode 'the perfect castaway'. Its at 2.14 below but I just couldnt get it out of my head when I was reading it.
http://ishare.rediff...castaway/522746
This post has been edited by tiam: 20 August 2014 - 08:55 AM
#118
Abyss
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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:28 PM
tiam, on 19 August 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:
Abyss, on 19 August 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:
If we go with Spin, he was Rake's 'sword' in the sense that as of TtH, he was his finest agent. Now he's the Andii champion and also their sword, literally.
Does it have to be that symbolic? Cant it just be there was a sword, Dragnipur, that protected the Andii by protecting the gate of KG? So now they no longer needed that sword they may need a champion to protect the new gate wherever that may be.
Does there have to be a new gate?
My point is that Rake was protector and champion of the Andii for the longest time, and now they need a new one and the FA, with due sense of 'justice' aka irony or alien existential sarcasm, gave them what they needed.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
#119
Mentalist
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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:25 AM
Finished.
Most of what I wanted to say has been said.
RE: who is Jethiss. I've spent the entire book chanting "please don't be Rake". I believe Spinnock is most likely. He's also been to Assail, iirc, so it would make a twisted kind of sense he come back.
A side observation: most people seem to think that since the Andii was a castaway, he must've been dead before. I posit this is because we are unconsciously drawing a parallel with Sandalath Drukorlat who was brought to life by the CG.
Re: the threat level of Assail. I believe it really had most to do with the fact that i) Assail's most accessible part (the north) is an inhospitable Wrecker's Coast, with the locals treating any outsider as fair game and ii) the lack of any serious political entity and pretty sparse population meant the whole continent was constantly fractured into warring tribes, and this warfare essentially devoured any outsiders, since thye would get caught in it.
Keep in mind, that there haven't really been many major seafaring empires capable of launching a strong force to conquer the place. It takes a huge amount of effort and a Ruse-skilled mage to even get into Assail past the coast (and we are told Ruse is one of the rarest warrens ever mastered).
As another aside: I suspect that one of the reasons for the nature of Assail's political structure is that the Jhaghut blood contributes to the isolationist tendencies of its indigienous population, and in rare cases (Mist) leads to emergence of tyrants.
Re: the Imass. I'd chalk up the bulk of the Ifayle losses to the civil war between themselves over the fate of the Icebloods. As for the Kherluhm, I imagine FA went on a murderous rampage on the entire continent.
As an aside: the "Four Founding Races" alone line made the whole book worth reading to a lore-fanatic.... absolutely frigging Brilliant.
What else? oh right, the whole "epilogue" thing. I do feel to some extent that the hype came from a vague description that Assail will be essentially a "complement" to tCG. In that regard, I can see some people being disappointed, since the book has next to 0 relation to tCG. That being said, read for what it is, the story of the CriG, and Silverfox and the Imass (which are the core "lingering questions" answered by the book), it succeeds. And the ride there is pretty awesome as well, which is a nice bonus.
Most of what I wanted to say has been said.
RE: who is Jethiss. I've spent the entire book chanting "please don't be Rake". I believe Spinnock is most likely. He's also been to Assail, iirc, so it would make a twisted kind of sense he come back.
A side observation: most people seem to think that since the Andii was a castaway, he must've been dead before. I posit this is because we are unconsciously drawing a parallel with Sandalath Drukorlat who was brought to life by the CG.
Re: the threat level of Assail. I believe it really had most to do with the fact that i) Assail's most accessible part (the north) is an inhospitable Wrecker's Coast, with the locals treating any outsider as fair game and ii) the lack of any serious political entity and pretty sparse population meant the whole continent was constantly fractured into warring tribes, and this warfare essentially devoured any outsiders, since thye would get caught in it.
Keep in mind, that there haven't really been many major seafaring empires capable of launching a strong force to conquer the place. It takes a huge amount of effort and a Ruse-skilled mage to even get into Assail past the coast (and we are told Ruse is one of the rarest warrens ever mastered).
As another aside: I suspect that one of the reasons for the nature of Assail's political structure is that the Jhaghut blood contributes to the isolationist tendencies of its indigienous population, and in rare cases (Mist) leads to emergence of tyrants.
Re: the Imass. I'd chalk up the bulk of the Ifayle losses to the civil war between themselves over the fate of the Icebloods. As for the Kherluhm, I imagine FA went on a murderous rampage on the entire continent.
As an aside: the "Four Founding Races" alone line made the whole book worth reading to a lore-fanatic.... absolutely frigging Brilliant.
What else? oh right, the whole "epilogue" thing. I do feel to some extent that the hype came from a vague description that Assail will be essentially a "complement" to tCG. In that regard, I can see some people being disappointed, since the book has next to 0 relation to tCG. That being said, read for what it is, the story of the CriG, and Silverfox and the Imass (which are the core "lingering questions" answered by the book), it succeeds. And the ride there is pretty awesome as well, which is a nice bonus.
The problem with the gene pool is that there's no lifeguard
THE CONTESTtm WINNER--чемпіон самоконтролю
THE CONTESTtm WINNER--чемпіон самоконтролю
Jump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:
And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
#120
Andorion
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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:20 AM
Quote
I do feel to some extent that the hype came from a vague description that Assail will be essentially a "complement" to tCG. In that regard, I can see some people being disappointed, since the book has next to 0 relation to tCG. That being said, read for what it is, the story of the CriG, and Silverfox and the Imass (which are the core "lingering questions" answered by the book), it succeeds. And the ride there is pretty awesome as well, which is a nice bonus.
This is exactly what I said earlier. The book should be read for itself, not as a part of TCG or for answering all questions about Malazan ever. Read for what it is, its a pretty good, book, in my opinion, better than SW, so ICE's best so far.
