Malazan Empire: Abyss Just Finished Assail - Malazan Empire

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Abyss Just Finished Assail spoiler-free comments, then SPOILERS after the jump...

#221 User is offline   Vaddon Ra 

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:51 PM

Edit: Andarist is also a Son of Darkness, dead, and has long white hair, although he is described as looking extremely old. I wonder if losing his memories also made him lose the grief that made him give up his power?

Honestly I think we need to figure out the Forkrull making the Bone Sword as a 'weapon Jethiss deserves' to figure out who it is for sure.
[/quote]

Well at the end he says that truly the title is an honorific now, I guess like knight of darkness, champion of light, soldier of death etc etc.
I loved how every time Fishers story would come round I would be blitzing through the story to find the next reference to Jethiss to confirm who he is. Really loved the little mystery.
My thoughts is that it is almost certainly Spinnock, as far as his body is concerned anyway. Spinnock was always more muscular than most tiste, clearly as well as hanging out in Coral's bars playing Tiste Chess he also benched :D


anyway I digress.... It could be rake, as stated in other posts silver streaks of hair could be a nod to rake being reborn, or perhaps part of Rake as son of darkness, some memories, some part of his status being imparted onto the new knight of darkness.
At the end Jethiss says that he had to lose himself and find himself anew, so perhaps like in someone such as Silverfox he has the status of Anomander and some of his memories and abilities such as high magey goodness, coupled with Spinnocks bulky appearance...

or it's just Spinnock upgraded to mage :p
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#222 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:28 PM

...or Rake's soul in Spinnock's body....
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#223 User is offline   Saitama 

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:21 AM

IMHO everybody pay too much attention to the details (Jethiss' hair, which are only partly white and not even silver) instead of the fact that J doesn't behave like Rake at all. When was the last time that Rake blended in with other people? Never. And not only because he was powerful. He has an aura of efortless elegance around him that couldn't be suppressed by a memory loss if his fighting skills weren't. He is a natural born leader of leaders. In short, it is something that Rake *is* rather than something he *does*.

So if ICE writes a character that could be Rake or could be another Andii, I call bullshit on the grounds that Anomander couldn't behave like a normal dude even if he tried. Which he wouldn't.
Occam's razor says Spinnock.

Unless MD really wanted Rake back and buried his remains (particles?) in an Ancient Indian Imass Burial Ground. That would explain how he came back wrong :D
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#224 User is offline   Gothos 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 09:16 AM

Aight, so I've joined the ranks of those who finished. I liked it very much. My only "but" is that the map, especially around the Sea of Gold and the Salt Range, doesn't seem to make much sense compared to what's in the book. Ah well.

I think Jethiss is Spinnock Durav. Rezzing Rake would destroy everything that was built for him in TTH.

Lanas Tog is such a bitch. What she did to the Kehrlum was... abhorrent.



One thing I still don't get after this whole series: why the hell are these called Novels of the Malazan Empire, besides Night of Knives? Seems more like Novels of the Crimson Guard...
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
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#225 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 12:46 PM

View PostGothos, on 09 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Aight, so I've joined the ranks of those who finished. I liked it very much. My only "but" is that the map, especially around the Sea of Gold and the Salt Range, doesn't seem to make much sense compared to what's in the book. Ah well.

I think Jethiss is Spinnock Durav. Rezzing Rake would destroy everything that was built for him in TTH.

Lanas Tog is such a bitch. What she did to the Kehrlum was... abhorrent.



One thing I still don't get after this whole series: why the hell are these called Novels of the Malazan Empire, besides Night of Knives? Seems more like Novels of the Crimson Guard...


Well, the Malazans do make an appearance in each and every book....and they do deal with Imperial themes like in RotCG it was the internal power struggles of the Empire, SW was an Imperial expedition to clean up the mess in Korelri, OST had the fate of the Malazan garrisons in Genebackis, I have forgotten what the hell the Malazans were supposed to be doing in B&B but it was something suitable Imperial I am sure, and in Assail, it was an IMperial scouting expedition..... but you are right and the naming could have been better....
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#226 User is offline   Blend 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 01:49 PM

View Postworry, on 22 August 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

The Redeemer doesn't have a modest barrow. Nor does Whiskeyjack for that matter (another person Rake might visit). However it could be said that both Seerdomin and Rake do have modest barrows, and Spinnock played Kef Tanar with both. He'd be the most likely to visit either one of those (though most likely Seerdomin).


Uhm, what about the barrow that was made from items that were given by all of the T'lan Imass? It's not modest if you think about what it means, but it's not like it's this huge opulent thing either.
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#227 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 02:43 PM

View PostBlend, on 09 September 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

View Postworry, on 22 August 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

The Redeemer doesn't have a modest barrow. ...


Uhm, what about the barrow that was made from items that were given by all of the T'lan Imass? It's not modest if you think about what it means, but it's not like it's this huge opulent thing either.


In fact it was humble for the very reason that it was made up of small Imass tokens.
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#228 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 07:36 PM

That was in MOI. I wouldn't have called it modest even then, but since then (re: TTH) it's become a place of worship surrounded by thousands of pilgrims.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#229 User is offline   Blend 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:04 PM

View Postworry, on 09 September 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

That was in MOI. I wouldn't have called it modest even then, but since then (re: TTH) it's become a place of worship surrounded by thousands of pilgrims.


The pilgrims' camp was destroyed by big red dragon lady at the end of TTH, no?
There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived. ~ Anomander Rake
My sig comes from a game in which I didn't heed Blend's advice. So maybe this time I should. ~ Khellendros
I'm just going to have to come to terms with the fact that self-vote suiciding will forever be referred to as "pulling a JPK" now, aren't I? ~ JPK
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#230 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:20 PM

I doubt it. I'm sure a decent-sized portion of it was destroyed, particularly the segment of it ingesting Kelyk and devoted to the Dying God, but I don't think the barrow was destroyed nor do I think it reversed the pilgrimage to the Redeemer.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#231 User is offline   malgozer 

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:30 PM

Little late to the party but I too liked this book (though not as much as RotCG or SW). I really liked reading this discussion thread since there's some really interesting takes on the theories that I hadn't thought of. Like many, I was expecting a little more from Assail on the whole but not bad (some of the points on Lanas Tog and what happened to the T'lan helped my initial frustration). I also felt like the CG went down a little too easy in this book too but I really like them as a whole and glad we got a bunch of books on them. I def. thought Jethiss was Rake but there are some pretty compelling Spinnock points raised so I can only hope him, Kyle, and Fisher are back in the Toblakai trilogy. Also, I think people are confusing Seerdomin's modest barrow with Itkovian's not so modest barrow (sorry if this was said already, may have missed it).


One thing I was having a tough time figuring out was the path of the rogue T'Lan. I believe they killed Yrikki in Bone Pass, then beat on Mist, then the Sharrs and Sheers at Exile keep correct? That would mean they came east then south down the western shore of the Dread Sea, then ALL the way back up, reversing direction to get to the final Jaghut encounter. With Silverfox and co following they would have doubled back into them right? Maybe I just didn't follow the map/path well.

I also liked the Blue shields and wish we got some more of them. Were they ever mentioned in previous books? I can't recall...
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#232 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:00 PM

View Postmalgozer, on 15 September 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Little late to the party but I too liked this book (though not as much as RotCG or SW). I really liked reading this discussion thread since there's some really interesting takes on the theories that I hadn't thought of. Like many, I was expecting a little more from Assail on the whole but not bad (some of the points on Lanas Tog and what happened to the T'lan helped my initial frustration).


discussing the books on this forum is one of my favorite parts of SE/ICE books.


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...so I can only hope him, Kyle, and Fisher are back in the Toblakai trilogy. ....


I so agree with that hope!

Quote

One thing I was having a tough time figuring out was the path of the rogue T'Lan. I believe they killed Yrikki in Bone Pass, then beat on Mist, then the Sharrs and Sheers at Exile keep correct? That would mean they came east then south down the western shore of the Dread Sea, then ALL the way back up, reversing direction to get to the final Jaghut encounter. With Silverfox and co following they would have doubled back into them right? Maybe I just didn't follow the map/path well.


I don't recall the exact path but as there were multiple groups of Tlan (By the time Silverfox meets the group on the shore, there are already other Tlan Imas running around killing people), i don't think it's really important.

Quote

I also liked the Blue shields and wish we got some more of them. Were they ever mentioned in previous books? I can't recall...


First reference i believe, tho the link to the Grey Swords and Helms, and aesthetic nod to the Blue Moranth, made them seem a little familiar.
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#233 User is offline   Deck of Dragons 

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:04 PM

Just finished this book last night! I really enjoyed it! I think it was possibly one of the best in ICE's series and frankly a very good ending to ICE's series.

Honestly, I would not mind if he wrote a few more post-series books. I think the Bone Blade could be a cool one-off book. And I also think the Crimson Guard returning to Stratem could be awesome as well. Was Stratem ever shown in the series? Was there a map? I can't remember anymore.

I really like ICE's series. As a whole, I actually like it more than Malazan Book of the Fallen. Though I think the first three Malazan Book of the Fallen installments were incredible.

I think the prequel trilogy that ICE is writing will be really good. The Claw, and the Old Empire is right up ICE's ally! I hope Surly makes an appearance as well!
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