Malazan Empire: Game of Thrones Season 4 - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 21 Pages +
  • « First
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • Last »

Game of Thrones Season 4 ALL TV AND BOOK SPOILERS (through ADWD) Rate Topic: -----

#141 User is online   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,708
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:55 PM

An interesting question. I haven't gone over the book scene again yet, but I do think people are gonna analyze it and perhaps reassess it a bunch now.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#142 User is offline   Terez 

  • High Analyst of TQB
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 4,981
  • Joined: 17-January 07
  • Location:United States of North America
  • Interests:WWQBD?
  • WoT Fangirl, Rank Traitor

Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

Now GRRM has commented:

http://io9.com/georg...game-1565762209

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
0

#143 User is offline   QuickTidal 

  • Lord of the Waters
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 21,450
  • Joined: 05-November 05
  • Location:At Sea?
  • Interests:DoubleStamping. Movies. Reading.

Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:14 PM

That scene was deeply uncomfortable to watch, and yeah it's REALLY hard to see it as anything but rape (regardless of what the Director said about it [Benioff though apparently doesn't see it as the director did...so their views on it don't really seem to align which is odd])

...I mean in the book the sex is consensual (but still really disturbing because it's still incestuous and happens next to the corpse of their dead son)

I mean the whole thing is effed...but what suffers most in it is Jaime's Season 3 (book 3) road to redemption...by AFFC Jaime has essentiually realized his sister had him snowed for hiw whole life, realizing she convinced him they loved one another...when in reality she only desired power, and sex...and he finally gets that, and moves towards being a better person...and that sex scene in the books is kind of their last hurrah before he's fully off of her as his drug...but in the show they've now backpeddled him to a place it's going to be REALLY uphill to get past. And that's kind of sad.

I don't understand why they chose that route, when the scene could have played like it did in the books without much effort...I'm truly baffled why they didn't.

Though it really sounds like Benioff and Weiss wanted one thing from it, and the director wanted something totally different. I wonder if he's going to get the directing gig again after such a brouhaha...I mean he has gone on record as saying "it BECAME consenual by the end of the scene"....but if he has to explain that to us as the audience, he fucking FAILED as a director. The editor answers to him, and he has final say on the scene...so he fucked up as far as I'm concerned.
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

"Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone." ~Ursula Vernon
0

#144 User is offline   Stormcat 

  • cat of storms
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 366
  • Joined: 19-September 13
  • Location:California
  • Interests:sci fi/fantasy books. WoW.

Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:55 PM

That scene was horrible. Seriously Awful. I have read the books and my husband has not. So I try to keep spoilers to a minimum and still answer questions him and his work buddies have. All I could say was wow it did it go down like that in the books. He just plummeted back into disgusting territory.

This post has been edited by Stormcat: 21 April 2014 - 11:55 PM

0

#145 User is offline   amphibian 

  • Ribbit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 8,010
  • Joined: 28-September 06
  • Location:Upstate NY
  • Interests:Hopping around

Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:36 AM

Reading the scene, I think what happened in the sept was mostly rape. There's elements of ambiguity from Cersei, but the scene suggests to me Jaime forcing through the objections and Cersei mitigating that force with her actions.

I think most people are upset because they now think of Jaime as a "good guy", rather than the frequently murderous and violent aristocrat he is. A side effect of this scene is that it calls to question what redemption is, how sticky a concept it is and whether a second redemption is possible.

I think I'm okay with the hbo scene as it is, although I am aware that this may come off as shock tactics rather than an actual thing that has to happen in the story. If they repeat this in other fashion, I'll not support that.

To be clear, I fully support the push for more women with agency in literature and other entertainment. It's far overdue and benefits us all.
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
0

#146 User is offline   Cause 

  • Elder God
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 5,821
  • Joined: 25-December 03
  • Location:NYC

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:11 AM

View PostTheRetiredBridgeburner, on 21 April 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

I realise it's a completely futile gesture but I'm done with the show. Turning yet another consensual sex scene into rape for shock factor (despite breaking an arc you already accelerated) is just the final step too far. I've already been a bit uneasy with the interpretations of some of the female characters (Melisandre being the main one) but I can't get angry and feel conflicted about it if I cease watching it. Ho hum.


Will you Clarify? I don't like Melisandre much in the show but I feel she is as she is meant to be. My only complaint is that she is far more transparent in the show than in the books but I would hardly call her a good character. She has perhaps a goal of the greater good but she is willing to employ any means to see it done. I also have always thought that her actions are at least partly selfish. She wants to play her part in history.
0

#147 User is offline   Thelomen Toblerone 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Team Handsome
  • Posts: 3,053
  • Joined: 05-September 06
  • Location:London

Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:45 AM

I was slightly taken aback when I saw the rape scene and thought I must've misremembered the book - looking back, I now appreciate that it's slightly more ambiguous and we only read Jaime's viewpoint, so the argument could well be made it was rape - but it didn't come across that way to me at the first time of reading (or indeed, at the re-read).

One interesting thing I did get though by watching with a non-reader is that they immediately picked up on the redemption thing and pointed out how quickly people seemed to have forgotten he was fucking his sister, kills indiscriminately on the battlefield/escaping from Robb Stark, and more to the point throws a kid out of a tower window. People seemed to like his character and were desperate to see him redeemed as a sort of romanticized Arthurian knight, but I think this has re-emphasised how unpleasantly human most of the characters are and made it feel a little more real.

All that being said though, I think it was a horrible scene to watch and unnecessary to portray it so graphically on screen; I think I'll be scene skipping on the re-watch...
1

#148 User is offline   Tsundoku 

  • A what?
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,837
  • Joined: 06-January 03
  • Location:Maison de merde

Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:12 AM

Gold. ^_^

http://www.news.com....i-1226896018412
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
0

#149 User is offline   Gothos 

  • Map painting expert
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 5,428
  • Joined: 01-January 03
  • Location:.pl

Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:27 AM

barely started season 4 yesterday but got interrupted. on the good side, seems the gf started enjoying the series, blasting though eps 1-3 of the first season last night. wheeee!
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
0

#150 User is offline   blackzoid 

  • Mortal Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,066
  • Joined: 13-September 07

Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:07 AM

So..Jaime's a rapiest? Ok...
That wasn't in my version of Storm of Swords, but I guess its been a while since I read it.
0

#151 User is offline   QuickTidal 

  • Lord of the Waters
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 21,450
  • Joined: 05-November 05
  • Location:At Sea?
  • Interests:DoubleStamping. Movies. Reading.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:57 PM

Just realized one of the stops on my forthcoming honeymoon is Dubrovnik.

So...I'm going to King's Landing!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 27 April 2014 - 11:57 PM

"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

"Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone." ~Ursula Vernon
0

#152 User is offline   QuickTidal 

  • Lord of the Waters
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 21,450
  • Joined: 05-November 05
  • Location:At Sea?
  • Interests:DoubleStamping. Movies. Reading.

Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:07 AM

View PostSombra, on 25 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:




Cool revised script.

Though the person who wrote the article erroneously calls the show "beleagured" like this has already or will affect the ratings in any way...which is just poor journalism. People are surely talking and discussing the scene, but it doesn't mean people are hating on the show now or it's suffering in any way in the ratings / reception overall.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 28 April 2014 - 12:07 AM

"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

"Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone." ~Ursula Vernon
0

#153 User is online   Whisperzzzzzzz 

  • Reaper's Fail
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 2,455
  • Joined: 10-May 10
  • Location:Westchester, NY

Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:29 AM

what the white walkers the what what what what.
0

#154 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

  • Believer
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Joined: 30-June 08
  • Location:Indianapolis
  • Interests:Football

Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:36 AM

Yeah, that was neat. Learning more about the Others in 10 minutes than 5 books, lol.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
0

#155 User is offline   amphibian 

  • Ribbit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 8,010
  • Joined: 28-September 06
  • Location:Upstate NY
  • Interests:Hopping around

Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:42 AM

Yes, like that some of them have better fashion sense than others amongst the Others.

/worrywort
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
0

#156 User is offline   Terez 

  • High Analyst of TQB
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 4,981
  • Joined: 17-January 07
  • Location:United States of North America
  • Interests:WWQBD?
  • WoT Fangirl, Rank Traitor

Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:47 AM

He cut off Jamie's hand. If I remember correctly, Tywin sent him there. Maybe not. In any case, looks like they're expanding Bran's story slightly, which is good since he didn't have much to do for the next two seasons.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
0

#157 User is online   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,708
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:52 AM

He's working with Ramsey to hunt down the Stark kids. First step, get cozy with Jon Snow.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#158 User is offline   Terez 

  • High Analyst of TQB
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 4,981
  • Joined: 17-January 07
  • Location:United States of North America
  • Interests:WWQBD?
  • WoT Fangirl, Rank Traitor

Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:53 AM

Ahhh, I don't remember that at all.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
0

#159 User is online   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,708
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:55 AM

Locke was there in the Reek scene where Ramsey showed his worth to Roose.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#160 User is offline   Stormcat 

  • cat of storms
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 366
  • Joined: 19-September 13
  • Location:California
  • Interests:sci fi/fantasy books. WoW.

Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:33 AM

So this new white walker stuff... does that mean George is laying out stuff that is supposed to be in future books? It looks more and more like he is going to let the show finish the books.
0

Share this topic:


  • 21 Pages +
  • « First
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • Last »


Fast Reply

  

7 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 7 guests, 0 anonymous users