[presumingpete]

ok, just finished, my head is still scrambled.

Firstly, Erikson you evil bastard genius, I need to know who survived and now.

Secondly - this is my crazy theory - maybe the bonehunters needed to die to do whatever it was tavore wanted them to do - this would be tavore's betrayal. Worked with the Bridgeburners.

third - didnt olar ethil say part of her was asleep as burn?

fourth - it just seems too random for them all to be dead.

fifth - why do i get the feeling the last paragraph of the series is gonna be
'ah mappo me old mate i cant remember nothing and my head is killin me! was I drinking?'
'yeah Icarium you went on a two week bender with a group of Forkrul assail and a couple of t'lan imass bonecasters. it was messy. I never would have believed skeletons could vomit so much..'
'that explains it. I'm pretty sure I'll remember something someday, I feel closer than ever to my past'
'yeah Icarium I'm sure you are. I'm sure you are'

sixth - I need to know now!

[Egwene]

presumingpete, on Aug 23 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

fifth - why do i get the feeling the last paragraph of the series is gonna be
'ah mappo me old mate i cant remember nothing and my head is killin me! was I drinking?'
'yeah Icarium you went on a two week bender with a group of Forkrul assail and a couple of t'lan imass bonecasters. it was messy. I never would have believed skeletons could vomit so much..'
'that explains it. I'm pretty sure I'll remember something someday, I feel closer than ever to my past'
'yeah Icarium I'm sure you are. I'm sure you are'

[Sinisdar Toste]

Nothing has ever chilled me more than when Gesler described the Bonehunter trenches. Tear my heart out again, SE. You do it so, so, well...

I am in shock, i can't even believe half of what happened! The heavies held, they held and died. The Letherii closed with the enemy. Ah Gods! It all happened so fast! damn you Nah'ruk! damn your scaly hides!

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 23 August 2009 - 09:40 PM

[Lundos]

Urizen, on Aug 23 2009, 03:36 PM, said:

Grief, on Aug 23 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Ah alright, had forgotten that then.

About QB, he also mentions that certain people have seen through him-Rake, and maybe Osserc, maybe a few others(where we also get a nice tidbit about there being a Jaghut Soletaken-anyone got any thoughts on who? Gothos seems the, or one of the, most powerful Jaghut, could that be his folly?). Anyway, it's suggest QB is defeinetely very powerful, enough so to consider taking on Draconus. I wonder if the bit about Rake and Osserc means he knew them, or just that they would be able to recognise him for what he was. He's certainly potent, and I reckon Elder, but i'd like to hear more about this Soletaken Jaghut.

Rake seeing through QB I read as Rake seeing QB's "true" soul, the person he is at his core if you will. The business with Draconus don't nessecary mean a confrontation but rather Draconus reaching out for servants/followers(QB being Mage of Dark and Draconus being King/Consort of Dark) and QB staying the hell away because he don't want to serve any god.

I don't feel QB is Elder since we in TBH sees flashbacks to QB's youth.

I read it as a remark about his soletaken form. That QB is an eleint too. He is referred to as a snake in MoI. And it fits with Rake and Osserc.

This post has been edited by Lundos: 23 August 2009 - 10:07 PM

[Epiph]

Grief, on Aug 23 2009, 08:36 AM, said:

The Azathanai are mentioned as working in quarries-so could be the azath builders such as the one Nimander meets in TTH.

I too had that thought when Sechul Lath dropped that word.

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 23 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

That's a good point. Creates an interesting dynamic with the whole Greymane/Brood thing though. Unless she has multiple personality disorder, Olar Ethil's agenda is Burn's agenda (if she is indeed Burn, of course, and not some megalomaniacal, senile old cow), so you have to wonder what she's up to. She could very well tell Brood to end it all if her plans go awry.

Didn't she straight up tell Toc or Torrent that she was trying to save humanity? That the T'lan Imass needed to be reminded of what it was to be baby killers so that they wouldn't do it again or something?

Egwene, on Aug 23 2009, 11:09 AM, said:

As for who... obviously, her brother is a strong possibility. After Mael's little pep talk, she might have taken the hint. Tays... his game has been pretty murky and he'd be a good one to have a foot in the door. For all we know, she might have had a quiet chat with Silverfox before they parted. I am sure there are others that could easily be written into the script if SE had decided on topping her.

I kind of hope Tavore and Ganoes aren't in communication, they just have the same plan or something, and both show up at the same place at the same time in tCG and make up. More likely, Tavore will die before she and Ganoes can make up, because this is Erikson.

When did Tavore have a chat with Silverfox? I don't think they've ever met.

presumingpete, on Aug 23 2009, 02:15 PM, said:

Secondly - this is my crazy theory - maybe the bonehunters needed to die to do whatever it was tavore wanted them to do - this would be tavore's betrayal. Worked with the Bridgeburners.

I like the idea that Tavore's betrayal is that she kills them all to do what needs doing, but the whole thing with the Bolkando princess' message was that it was a random, wrong place wrong time, bee's nest situation. It would have been nigh impossible for Tavore to have her troops right between the Nah'ruk and the Che'Malle.

Sinisdar Toste, on Aug 23 2009, 04:37 PM, said:

Nothing has ever chilled me more than when Gesler described the Bonehunter trenches. Tear my heart out again, SE. You do it so, so, well...

I am in shock, i can't even believe half of what happened! The heavies held, they held and died. The Letherii closed with the enemy. Ah Gods! It all happened so fast! damn you Nah'ruk! damn your scaly hides!

I had tears in my eyes from the point people started dying until the end. When Gesler was like, "They're eating them!" I thought I might lose it.

This post has been edited by Epiph: 23 August 2009 - 10:53 PM

[tiam]

i was un amused by the ending not because of the WTF whos alive thing but the fact that the series has been built up around ,say, ICarium being the nastiest bastard and earth shattering beast enough so theres a cult designed to keep him in check and Mael even fears him in RG. However surely the EG would want the matrons killed as they represent a far worse power. In any case i was not happy with the whole book. This will likely change on a reread but at the moment the book consisted off 800 pages of the PErish Khundryl and malazans moaning and marching very slowly towards each other while the Bolkando sort of fucked around a bit and it was blatantly obvious the queen was gonna join with her evertime legion. TO top it all off they finally get going then a bunch of G'ould motherships tun up and just blast the shit out of them. I have no problem with Erikson throwing out cliffhanger endings like this but even for a set up book this was a bit shit as was the fact that the FA were starving to death in the wastes yet in HOC Calm was fineAlso everyone and their dog knew bout the FA elder warren it seems. Furthermore Ruthan Gudd just screamed Beak the entire book and he was to a lesser extent bt i dont mind that so much but a child killing a couple of FA by shouting t them was simply bizarre

End rant

This post has been edited by tiam: 24 August 2009 - 09:39 AM

[blackzoid]

Hmm, Tiam you are correct, the Forkrul Assail's depiction in this book is something that is a serious discontintunity with previous books.
I don't mind the girl killing the FA with the power of her voice as that seems to be the FA magic being used against them, but the Watch being able to slice FA's apart and the FA's starving in the desert does not make sense when compared to Calm in HoC or Serenity in MT. Unless they were FA ascendents. But Silchas Ruin in MT did explain that they as a race were very difficult to kill.

I am very happy that they are now in the game as seemingly the ultimate evil, cos they always were the most insane race, but I'm not happy if they have been "watered down" so that the Malazan's/Perish can stand a chance against them.

[tiam]

if it turns out the watch is i dunno the most Tiste Andii of the shake making him more powerful it seems that that still would mean hed get destroyed. Him killing four liosan (we dont know whether they were our 4 favorite liosan either hmmm) is okish. But id say your right the FA have been given a weaker position otherwise theres no way the BH with the evertime legion etc would be able to stand a chance

[Illuyankas]

I never thought the Inquisitors were full-blooded FA at all. And how could you be upset by the RAP BATTLE?

[blackzoid]

The "Quitters" had extra joints in their wrists and knees. They are some sort of FA.
Now the fact that they may not be full-blooded FA may explain their starving. That FA girl Brydalle was not described as having a hinge in her chest which is usaully what the FA's have. But she was probbaly wearing clothes the whole time.

[Urizen]

Illuyankas, on Aug 24 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

I never thought the Inquisitors were full-blooded FA at all. And how could you be upset by the RAP BATTLE?

Maybe they were corrupted FA's and thus phisically weaker, something similar to how Hannan Mosag and the K'risnan were physically corrupted. Seeing how they have been sitting on the heart of the Crippled Sod for a loong time, it would not suprise me if he has influenced them somehow.

[Vengeance]

Did any one else find that they were a bit shocked that the Liosan and the FA's seemed to be scouting together. The went from having the wars of Justice to backing each other up against the watch.

[Illuyankas]

I thought they were hunting each other to be honest.

[blackzoid]

Hey, wasn't the master of the Hounds of Light who sent them after Dragnipur, did so becasue it was a sword of perfect Justice?
That could have been the FA.

[Obdigore]

blackzoid, on Aug 24 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

Hey, wasn't the master of the Hounds of Light who sent them after Dragnipur, did so becasue it was a sword of perfect Justice?
That could have been the FA.

I'm not sure we knew why the master of the HoL sent them after Dragnipur. We don't even know who their master is as far as I can tell.

Now - What happened? QB pushed the Nah'ruk back so far it took them nearly a day to return and start collecting food. By pushed back I mean he MOVED them away from the battlefield. Since it was a problem with positioning, and they were just in the way, they then got out of the way.

Heavies Held, QB returned with his help from whereever he went after the lightning attack, pushed the lizards back, the Khundril, Malazans, and Letherii retreated, taking maybe 50-70% losses from the malazans, more like 90% from the khundril, and like 20% from the Letherii.


I look forward to seeing the K'chain Che'mall with the bonehunters.

[Epiph]

Good theory. When Brys was getting all amazed at the heavies holding and goes "Who are these soldiers?" I let out a little sob. God, that whole thing was so brilliantly written.

[polishgenius]

I love that the KCCM have turned out to be good guys, or at least guys on the side of the guys that we want to win. A non-human race which isn't all of uniform character, yay!

[Sinisdar Toste]

i thought it was pretty consistent, the FA and the TL seemingly working together. i mean sure they had the just wars, but after a few hundred thousand years im sure that they came around and thought, hey, were both races of blindingly arrogant, puffed up pompadour wearing justice freaks, i bet we could wipe life off of the face of a few worlds! yeah lets do it! anywhoo that part made sense to me.

@obdi: you're thinking QB scarpered down his bolt hole then what? returned and gated the nah'ruk ten leagues away? somehow that doesn't sound right to me. but if it means that the bonehunters aren't wiped out to a man then i could go with it. personally, i think that lostara yils shadow dance might have had something to do with it. not sure how but once shadow was invoked Cot or ST or both could have intervened in the massacre.

[ShadowOwl]

polishgenius, on Aug 24 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

I love that the KCCM have turned out to be good guys, or at least guys on the side of the guys that we want to win. A non-human race which isn't all of uniform character, yay!

I found it great writing that took a close ally who, as a people, had the chance to change traditional ways and grow, refused it and were eliminated and we cheer. And on the flip side, an enemy who created such fear, made changes to their traditions, and ended up a new ally with great potential. Just very cool.

[Sindriss]

Woah, what a great book. Really a pageturner, one of the best I've read in the series if you judge by the first read. Lets get on to business.

QB is alive, that is quite certain I think. As some others on the board, I doubt he is elder, since we see his childhood, and I don't think SE would use the easy way out of explaining his powers by saying he got an elder soul. He is a hoarder of knowledge, and I think it is likely he has found ways to make himself stronger plus he has some mean battles with Icarium etc. which furthers his strenght. Soultaken might be a way for his knowledge to actively make him stronger.

Man, Gesler and co. is just awesome in the end. Really truly aweswome. Taking the KCCM though the battle, bolstering their morale and making them think they can win which they then subsequently do. AWESOME! And the remark about stormy riding in the ass of the KCCM, just had me laughing for 5 minutes. I mean, this is the biggest battle ever, sorceries are flawing, bonehunters mostly destroyed, friends dying, warrens blasting. And gesler remarks that stormy should ride in the ass of a KCCM. That picture was just unbeliable.