[MTS]

I guess, but then what about all their "potential"? I don't see either of them dying. We will see them again, in some capacity, that's for certain. Unless SE has filled whole books with red herrings.

[Egwene]

Oh, my eyes... I had three hours sleep last night, all thanks to Dust of Dreams!!

Well... first things first. NO way is Ben Adorable Delat dead! If he is... you might as well tell me that gravity has been eliminated.

New entries in Guiness Book of Records for:

- Most name dropping from previous books ever (loved it)
- Best Deck reading ever
- Largest cast of speaking characters hanging of the cliff at the end ever seen in fantasy

This book should come with a tissue warning there is so much misery in it. Tool and Hetan really didn't deserve to die like that and the snake of children is just the most tragic story line of all. The Chain of Dogs was light entertainment by comparison. Quite nasty streak of bad luck going about for so many.

My guess is that Tavore has survived - a meeting between her and her brother surly is too juicy a scene for Erikson to let go of.
Bottle - I am sure he is pretty damaged, but I imagine his Lady of the Night might have a word to say about his future. So wouldn't write him off yet.
Fids - if he is dead the gap would be massive. Though Hedge could take up some of the slack, it wouldn't be the same. So I refuse to believe it.
Lostara Yil- I'd say she is dead after heroic last stand but... isn't she the Champion of Life.... as someone pointed out... maybe the ones marked by the Deck aren't going to get lost easily.

How about SE turns the KCCM into Malazan heavies and Gesler promoted to Fist on the spot? I mean Kindley??? Nooooooooooo...

Considering how many pages they had elsewhere, it was odd that we caught not even a glimpse of Nimander and his lot other than in a couple of coments by Sand.

As I like his character, I was disappointed that the Master of the Deck did not put in a personal appearance.

Thoughts for the future... is Kruppe going to meet his daughters? I'd love to see the family life a few years down the line between those three.

Oh, so much to ponder.... if you are reading this... Thank you Steven!

PS: just thought about the overriding message of the series 'Life ain't fair. Life's a bitch and then you die'. Does that sum up things nicely?

This post has been edited by Egwene: 21 August 2009 - 09:06 PM

[MTS]

Egwene, on Aug 22 2009, 07:04 AM, said:

Considering how many pages they had elsewhere, it was odd that we caught not even a glimpse of Nimander and his lot other than in a couple of coments by Sand.


As I like his character, I was disappointed that the Master of the Deck did not put in a personal appearance.

Thoughts for the future... is Kruppe going to meet his daughters? I'd love to see the family life a few years down the line between those three.

As to Nimander and co., well, they're busy with Black Coral, and on another continent after all...

I was surprised about Paran too. Then again, Errastas spent the whole book getting his ass handed to him so a clash wouldn't really have been all that cool. Still, it would've been nice to see him in his position as "arbiter" in this conflict.

I doubt Kruppe will meet his daughters. Unless he leaves Darujhistan, which I doubt.

'Life ain't fair. Life's a bitch and then you die and then you existentially moan about how shit life is and then come back to life again'

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 21 August 2009 - 09:12 PM

[Blackjon_Bludd]

well the one plus is death seems to be a sure route to ascendancy if you are badass, so all the characters we like at least have that hope

seriously you have to have some happy resolution or it just doesnt work, hopefully the Crippled God will end happily for some

[Lundos]

Before this gets out of hand with questions about who survived and what not, I have to ask: Was the annihilation of the Bonehunters really necessary? Or was that the betrayal? I mean QB talking about being in the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't really cut it for me. SE's been writing page after page with these guys, and to just have them meaninglessly cut down isn't good enough - even if they kicked ass against a far superior foe.

My guess is most of our favorite characters survived. Almost all other than the already named dead. Everything else is too much to bear - even if the series is called Malazan book of the FALLEN.

[MTS]

Don't worry, we haven't seen the last of the Bonehunters yet. As a cohesive army, well, that would be another story. You're right - there has been far too much input about what they're doing to be just swept aside like that. It doesn't really make all that much sense. Anyway, by the time the Che'Malle saw the battlefield, it was already over by a fair while - NR were busy eating Bonehunters and Letherii. There had to be survivors, so I'm assuming Tavore and Brys have together a motley crew of survivors, merging on Kolanse.

[Obdigore]

First - Bottle is just 'stretched' like how QB was when fighting Iccy.

Second - Sinn and Grub were channeling the old warrens to help Iccy channel his new warrens to make the Stone Azath Tree (Also, home of a new KCCM Brood).

Third - Some BH survived, as well as much of the letherri and all the grey swords and the boldanko queens army.

Fourth - QB dropped something like 5 or 6 acorns. Did he have 5-6 shaved knuckled in the hole?

[MTS]

QB goes "little acorns, listen. Go for the drones - the ones with the packs. Forget the rest - for now." Also, Ruthan Gudd remarks that QB is forcing warrens to do "unspeakable things". So I'm fairly certain those were shaved knuckles. He was drawing on them for power, or directing it. When QB gets Rannalled, he raises his arms as the lightning strikes, so he knew what was coming. He ain't gone.

[Egwene]

I wasn't thinking of Nimander with the Bonehunters, Mappo's Travelling Sack, but isn't he still with Twilight? Or have am I forgetting something... probably...

As for wholesome elimination of the Bonehunters... well, just think of Whiskeyjack and his lot, or Laseen. Yes, he is back as guardian of the gate, but that's not quite the same as leading an army. In a way, in the Malazan series, the game/quest/event is at the centre and the players are a changing group of people. Everyone is expendable and the only sure thing is, time marches on (apart from the odd blips where it stands still for some). We know Erikson is anti traditional fantasy set-ups so it would be logical for the hero to die and his deed to be un-witnessed. Sound familiar? We have had more heroes die along the way than you can keep track on and Tavore has already stated that they will be un-witnessed.

Having said that, I think the Bonehunters aren't quite going yet. They will have lost bulk, everyone is singed around the edges, major re-structuring is called for but the Bonehunters will carry on. I am guessing that Brys and Gesler will properly join them and both will form part of the new command. But I think saving the world is going to cost most of the Bonehunters their life by the end of tCG. And the signs from heaven (jade fingers), major up-upheaval etc... it is the sort of story line that might end up giving rise to a monotheistic believe system which of course would eliminate the entire deck.

Erikson is a lot about philosophy and I think by the end of the series he'll want the world to go on, not knowing how much they owe the Malazan Fallen but us the readers to be think 'if only you knew'. Reflecting back to real life where none of us know how many actions from others have put us where we are. Whatever the outcome, I am pretty certain that only a couple of our main characters will survive.

Hmmm... writing this, I am starting to think that... maybe we have seen the last of Tavore. After all, it is probably the longest run so far without leadership change. If so, we will probably get a flashback to the battle before she dies and see her getting in touch with her brother via knife... and whatever gets said there, the survivors will then take over the baton. Though who is going to be in charge? I can't see Kindly in that role... unless the first half of tCG is about how they get rid of him.

QB lives... he had enough time to work out an escape route.

[Urizen]

Lundos, on Aug 22 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

Before this gets out of hand with questions about who survived and what not, I have to ask: Was the annihilation of the Bonehunters really necessary? Or was that the betrayal? I mean QB talking about being in the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't really cut it for me. SE's been writing page after page with these guys, and to just have them meaninglessly cut down isn't good enough - even if they kicked ass against a far superior foe.

My guess is most of our favorite characters survived. Almost all other than the already named dead. Everything else is too much to bear - even if the series is called Malazan book of the FALLEN.

I thought Tavore was the one doing the betraying. The Gods wants Tavore and the Bonehunters to help chain the CG again while she intends to free him (and send him home?), thus "betraying" the gods. this in turn might lead to allies like the Grey Helms to turn against the Bonehunters.

The wrong place at the wrong time bit smacks of the Errant meddling to me. The BH having the bad luck of meeting the Nah'ruk as they close in on the KCCM sure feels like the Errant's nudge. He had it in for the Bonehunters after the whole Deck of Dragon debacle.

Maybe Mael through his special dagger whisked away the survivors?

[drinksinbars]

that book was unbelievably bleak, the stuff with hetan just felt so unnecessary. and tool, what a bastard. no seriously, what a bastard.

but the ending, sweet beejesus i knew there was a reason i love those two crazy bastards, that final scene was just insane.

also anyone else feel certain that quick is a fucking elder god? seriously, when he learned draconus was back he said he would deal with him. and magus of dark, i cant remeber and am too buzzing now but we know one of his souls is andii or can at least summon kurald galain. it seems the farther the series goes the more qb breaks down. it seemed when the series started he wasnt really master of all the souls within him, but as things go on he just grows and grows. madness.

loved the book, though it was soo depressing, keneb was the man, what a pointless way of dying.

seriously if that book had a theme it was, the barghast are cocks and everyone dies. oh and tool and toc are bastards.

[Illuyankas]

Dude, Toc isn't a bastard. Olar Ethil was forcing him to say it, in order to completely screw over Tool and turn him into a bastard for her own purposes. It tore Toc up inside. Olar Ethil is the one who needs to die.

[MTS]

Yeah, Torrent should've stuck that bitch. I wonder what she's doing though. What does she need that army for?

[drinksinbars]

Illuyankas, on Aug 22 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

Dude, Toc isn't a bastard. Olar Ethil was forcing him to say it, in order to completely screw over Tool and turn him into a bastard for her own purposes. It tore Toc up inside. Olar Ethil is the one who needs to die.

tocs a cold bastard too. that ending. him and tool are like twins.

plus olar is burn and everyone else it seems, didnt see that coming. deranged old hag.

[Urizen]

drinksinbars, on Aug 22 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

plus olar is burn and everyone else it seems, didnt see that coming. deranged old hag.

I don't beleive that for a second.To me thhat was just Olar Ethil's own deranged meglomania talking.

[MTS]

I dunno Urizen...I'm inclined to thinking there's at least a glimmer of truth in there. She gave fire to the Imass, she's an Elder God...why can't she be Burn? Although if she is, why the fnck ain't she sleepin'?

[T'renn]

I haven't read the book.... (I'll get it this week)

I scanned through this one quickly

Even if... and I say if... QB died, he'll "lost all to gain all." He'll ascend. He's a goddamned bridgeburner.

Oh, and maybe the 12-soulpart can make him do a Voldy (as in Harry Potter)


Also somethings buggering me

Quote

Also, Sinn is how powerful? Tays blasts bits off one skykeep that's run by people unable to read the manual, Sinn melts four fully functional ones at once.

I don't think those got an Elder Gods son on board, do they ? I mean a fully empowered Archmage is harder to blow away than just rock and machinery.

This post has been edited by Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn: 22 August 2009 - 10:02 PM

[fafner]

personally i have the feeling that she was burn till the ritual and when she went undead she lost that title/power/position to the person that is burn now

[Epiph]

Oh. My. God.


I just had to get that off my chest before I read anything here. My mind's blown.

I agree about Hetan and Tool. So tragic. I had to stop reading for a while after all that bleakness with Hetan hobbled and Toc turning Tool away and Cafal dying and soldiers gnawing on their existentialism. Had to go seek a human touch to shake off the existential gloom. Hobbling...awful. Thanks, Erikson, now I'm going be disgusted by sex for a while.

Agree that Quick probably isn't dead. Unlikely that Bottle is...gone. I hesitate to say he's alive, but I don't think SE would have left us not knowing on that one; not like she shies away from dying POVs.

Personally, I think it'd be weak sauce to have flashbacks to illustrate deaths. If Tavore died on the battlefield, no one knows what's going on.

How has no one mentioned anything about the Otataral Dragon? Anyone think that is factored into all the Big Plans?

This post has been edited by Epiph: 23 August 2009 - 12:22 AM

[Egwene]

Epiph, maybe 'Flashback' wasn't the right word to use... I couldn't think of how to put it...

What I meant is that there will be references, obscure of course, to what happened in the battle after what we have been reading about. From those we'll be able to put together a guess about what happened to Tavore. I think QB possibly knows what Tavore was all about and Bottles spying may have thrown up something as well. Also, she might already have been in touch with her brother. After all, the contact via bones between Dujek and Whiskeyjack whilst the latter was in Darujhistan had no foreshadowing at all, so it is not unreasonable to assume that Tavore, too, was in touch with someone.