Primateus, on 19 February 2021 - 04:53 PM, said:
QuickTidal, on 19 February 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:
I don't think I've ever seen you be so wrong in just three words.
It's just a really lacklustre film. There's absolutely nothing special about it. It's rote and by the numbers.
Primateus, on 19 February 2021 - 04:53 PM, said:
And BvS is not a good movie, based on trash material as it is.
Clarification, BvS: Ultimate Edition (the directors preferred cut) is the GREAT movie I'm talking about (the theatrical cut out half the reasons for things to happen).
Also, it's not really based on any material. It might have elements of TDKR (namely a Superman VS Armored-Batman clash, and it being post-Jason Todd death), but most of it stems from the original story from MAN OF STEEL and containing that and including Batman in the narrative. Elements like Lex Manipulating the whole situation to get the two titans to clash is not something from TDKR, nor is Lex using Zod to resurrect Doomsday. There's really only tenuous surface stuff that relates between TDKR and BvS.
Primateus, on 19 February 2021 - 04:53 PM, said:
And I don't understand this, frankly, silly belief that the so-called "Snyder cut" of Justice League is somehow going to be so much better than the Whedon cut (which wasn't good).
For starters, why is it "So-called"?
Second, the deep cut on the Snyder Cut is required info for understanding why people want to see it, and think it will be better.
For starters:
- Snyder was finished filming and 7 months deep into Post-production on JL when he had to leave the project due to his daughters unexpected suicide.
- The Junkie XL score (Tom Holkenborg) for JL was COMPLETE (a score that will be restored in the Snyder Cut,
and you can hear part of here).
- Snyder and his DOP Fabian Wagner shot some 4 hours of footage for JL. At the beginning of the project, JL was going to eventually be 3 films, so Snyder and Wagner shot lots of stuff that might not fit into the first JL movie.
- The cast and crew LOVED working with Snyder and his producer wife Deborah (this is relevant later).
The middle stuff:
- WB told Snyder than he could not release a 4 hour film, and to cut it down to a more manageable theatre-friendly length. He had already planned to cut it to 3.5 hours, which he did and submitted it...they rejected it and told him to cut it more. He cut it to 3hrs in a cut he still liked, but was not ideal for the story. They rejected it. He cut it to a 2.5hr film that lost a lot of the story, that he didn't like...but was willing to accept if he was allowed a Directors Cut down the line like BvS...they rejected that one too, and suggested a 2hour cut. It was at this point that Snyder's daughter died and he left the project.
The end stuff:
- WB hired Joss Whedon to "finish" JL.
- Whedon rewrote 88 pages of the script (this is well over half and close to 3/4s of the script).
- Whedon did months of reshoots with the cast (this is why MOST of JL Batman looks beefier...because Affleck was long past being in the shape he'd been in).
- According to Snyder's DOP Fabian Wagner, a mere 25minutes of the 4 hours of footage he and Snyder shot ended up in the final Whedon cut of Justice League. The rest was from reshoots and rewrites. Some of it is INSANELY glaring too.
- Junkie XL was fired, his score ditched, and Whedon brought in Danny Elfman to rescore the entire film.
- Joss accosted and treated people like shit on set, this included Gal Gadot, Ray Fisher, and even Gadot's stunt double who was taken into a room by Whedon and accosted. Things like Flash falling on Wondeer Woman's chest in a prat fall (a prat fall he ALSO used in AVENGERS) joke? Whedon. This relates to partially WHY the whole cast seemingly got behind the Snyder Cut on social media....because their experience had been so sour on Whedon's reshoots, and that they knew the film he made was not the film they signed up for and shoot originally.
So basically, the film will (as a nearly 4hour HBO Max mini-series film) hew much closer to the original plans for it as per what Snyder shot...he did mild reshoots (about 6 minutes worth I think; The Joker roof scene from the Nightmare sequence is that I believe), but the vast majority of the film will be what he originally shot. Of which, we have seen 25minutes of in random shots from the Whedon JL film, where he cobbled it into his vision as opposed to finishing Zack's. Hell, even minor things like the Steppenwolf design are MARKEDLY better....in the Snyder Cut he is clearly an alien with spiked armour...while in the Whedon cut he's a big human looking dude in a viking helmet. The red filter taint over the whole 3rd act of Whedon's JL? Gone now thankfully. Ect. They will effectively be different films.
Will it be better? I absolutely 100% believe it will be...it's not hard to leap over the abomination that Whedon created...will it be good? That remains to be seen, and there are always going to be people on other side of the fence who are destined to hate it or love it anyways....but mostly I feel like Snyder getting to finish the vision he had for MoS, BvS, and JL is a good thing, and I can't wait to see it since I love the other two films so much.
Also, the Mustache shit? That was Whedon too, because he didn't want Superman in the Black Suit during that scene (as Snyder shot it)...so he created a MASSIVE film issue, and cost by demanding that Cavill come do the reshoots and they digitally paint his mustache from his MI role out.
This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 February 2021 - 06:01 PM
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