[QuickTidal]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 05 July 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

I think the issue that a lot of people have is that smaller actors who are black or Asian or whatever get overlooked for roles that are given to "big name" white people for the name recognition.

While this may be true for big crossover productions (Miyazaki films for example) where "names on posters" is a big deal to Hollywood, for most voice acting work this isn't a problem. There are many races who do voice acting and get tonnes of roles of different colours and cultures.

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 05 July 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

So, if there were literally no actors who were the same race/background as the character they're playing, then those people would be fine with the role voiced by said white actor. But, as it is, there are actors who are more similar to the characters they portray, so why not cast those actors in the role?

This is where Oleyowo playing Agent Kallus is a good example. He apparently walked into the audition (for a TV show where they cast an Asian voice actor as an Asian-humanoid in Sabine), and nailed the Kallus audition so amazingly that they didn't care that he was black...he WAS Agent Kallus to a T. Even though Agent Kallus is white. It was more important to the voice director that Kallus sound awesome and be acted well than what the race of the voice actor was.

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 05 July 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

(Sorry for lack of better explanation — hungover from yesterday).

Not a problem, been there.

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 05 July 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

I'm of the opinion that I don't really care about the actor's race/background; I care about their stature and pervasiveness. I think more smaller actors should be given bigger roles, instead of relying on the "big names" to have a diverse repertoire of voices (or even just one voice, repeated in all their roles...[cough nolan north cough]). The bigger the pool of actors that people can pull from, and the less reliant they become on pulling "big names", then the more likely it is that those more diverse (racially and culturally) actors will get better roles — playing whatever race, culture, species, sentience they want.

Absolutely agree.

I also want voice acting and mo-cap acting to be FAR more recognized, and not treated like the ugly step-sibling of "real" acting.

[amphibian]

Illuyankas, on 05 July 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Yeah but dentistry must be a thing, surely? I don't know how they can claim to live in a civilised society if they haven't rolled out a universal program to allow all predators free dentistry to allow them to consume their new universal food source of bugs and inorganic things instead of having to murder sentient people and devour their corpses. To not do this would be to condemn 10% of your populace to eating food they're literally not evolved to handle which would be unpleasant, probably painful and completely unacceptable if you have a shred of decency. More like Fauxtopia, am I right?

The level of tech displayed in Zootopia suggests a nearly infinite supply of energy plus the "solving" of cheap terraforming and environmental cooling/warming in major city neighborhood sized locations (having a desert zone next to an Arctic zone next to a jungle zone etc).

It's literally techno magic that the animals have access to. The dentistry being out of whack is a sign that the creators didn't think all that much through anything beyond surface impressions.

[Slow Ben]

amphibian, on 05 July 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on 05 July 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Yeah but dentistry must be a thing, surely? I don't know how they can claim to live in a civilised society if they haven't rolled out a universal program to allow all predators free dentistry to allow them to consume their new universal food source of bugs and inorganic things instead of having to murder sentient people and devour their corpses. To not do this would be to condemn 10% of your populace to eating food they're literally not evolved to handle which would be unpleasant, probably painful and completely unacceptable if you have a shred of decency. More like Fauxtopia, am I right?

It's literally techno magic that the animals have access to. The dentistry being out of whack is a sign that the creators didn't think all that much through anything beyond surface impressions.

Almost like they were making a kids movie.





Logan was pretty good. Not the phenomenal super hero movie i'd been led to believe, but better than most recently.

Hey! We're being hunted by and international death squad with unlimited resources, lets spend the night with this innocent family, what could go wrong?!

[worry]

This so-called "white" Star Wars character isn't actually white, because as we all know Star Wars takes place in a whole other galaxy. These are all aliens.

Just kidding, that's not my argument.

I do think you bring up added nuance, just in terms of the struggles in the industry. That said, I have no qualms about POC voice actors doing white characters and do have qualms about the reverse case, because the former isn't rooted in a history of oppression and mockery, while the latter definitely is. If Goodwin was voicing a black character, even a "black" rabbit, that would be minstrelsy plain and simple, regardless of her ostensibly honorable intent. I don't think obsessing over every background character is necessary, and I don't think there needs to be 1:1 character/actor match given the realities of the industry, but I do think when white actors play POC it's playing with fire, generally disrespectful and rooted in minstrelsy, and ultimately the wrong choice 99.9% of the time.

In terms of dubbing, my assumption is it's kind of a meat-grinder industry. Like stables of reliable pros who knock out tons of projects. If English dubbers are generally white, though, that does seem like a problem. Like, these hiring decisions aren't born out of chaos theory; people with the power to do so made decisions about who they would hire. Like if 30 years ago a casting director with biases hired a stable of white people to do dubs, and now you have this group of white pros who work well together and have decades of experience, and the biased casting director died of old age in 2004, it still behooves the industry to correct for those biases, even if it means these white 30-year-pros get less work. As far as the big projects go with budgets, like MIyazaki movie dubs and such, hell yeah do I have a problem with their obsession with big name white actors doing the roles, and hell yeah do I think these actors have a responsibility not to take these roles, the same way I feel about Emma Stone in Aloha.

Plus there's a long dark history of casting directors asking POC actors if they can be "more black", "more Mexican", "more Indian", etc. and what they mean is hit the stereotype as hard as possible...I hate to think how much worse that might be when you don't even need to see the actor, so white people doing the voices is an option (and maybe the easiest, preferred option...further skewing an already-biased industry). And you don't really have to imagine it: Apu from the Simpsons is right there. I've seen (maybe read? I forget if he's written about it) Hari Kondabolu, among others, talk about it with great insight. I will think more about what you said re: Phil LaMarr, I dunno where I fall there (re: Samurai Jack).

To bring things back to Zootopia, I agree with you they tried to muddy the lines with the casting, but I think that's part of the overall problem with the movie. This particular critique I read, so it doesn't originate with me but I've found myself agreeing with it: the movie tries to have it both ways by addressing race (with the hamhanded predator/prey) metaphor while simultaneously erasing race by giving everyone prejudices or making them the butt of microaggressions: the big example I can think of is the sheep telling someone they can't feel their hair (obv. hearkening back to the real world microaggression against black hair). The movie flattens bigotry as an "everybody is a little racist" kind of way, eliding the power structures that most definitely favor one group above everyone else in the real world. I'm not doing the argument justice right now, unfortunately, but there's something very nefarious -- at best misguided in a counterproductive way -- about pretending everyone is equally guilty of racism and equally a victim of its imposition.

[Illuyankas]

Slow Ben, on 05 July 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

amphibian, on 05 July 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on 05 July 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Yeah but dentistry must be a thing, surely? I don't know how they can claim to live in a civilised society if they haven't rolled out a universal program to allow all predators free dentistry to allow them to consume their new universal food source of bugs and inorganic things instead of having to murder sentient people and devour their corpses. To not do this would be to condemn 10% of your populace to eating food they're literally not evolved to handle which would be unpleasant, probably painful and completely unacceptable if you have a shred of decency. More like Fauxtopia, am I right?

It's literally techno magic that the animals have access to. The dentistry being out of whack is a sign that the creators didn't think all that much through anything beyond surface impressions.

Almost like they were making a kids movie.





Logan was pretty good. Not the phenomenal super hero movie i'd been led to believe, but better than most recently.

Hey! We're being hunted by and international death squad with unlimited resources, lets spend the night with this innocent family, what could go wrong?!

If you don't demand complete justification for every decision made in a movie you watch then I pity you, brother

Also for that scene in Logan these are not people who are either thinking rationally nor anything but completely exhausted, and the kindest of their new friends lets them pull the wool over their own eyes before it all comes crashing down in a mix of metaphors

[worry]

They should have called this feature film Logan's Run, what with all the running the character Logan did.

[Morgoth]

Lego Batman, on the other hand, is made of undiluted awesome.

[Malankazooie]

So Sylvester Stallone has been teasing a Creed 2 angle, and posted the following to social media (Instagram I believe).


I wonder how that's going to work? Maybe after Rocky IV, Drago was put into cryogenic stasis and is thawed out and revived all these years later to fight? I dunno really, but will be interesting to see what the final cut looks like. You know one thing is for sure though, the line "I must break you" will be spoken.

[Aptorian]

I want them to make that film, just so Dolph Lundgren can get a paycheck big enough that he stops making all that straight to DVD trash he features in now of days. I know some actors just like to work and do stuff for fun but seriously, some of those films are criminal.

And the strange thing is even in his older age he has retained a lot of his charm. Why not just find some comfortably well paying TV-show?

[polishgenius]

Surely it's more likely to be as a coach or father to the opponent?

In any case it'd be a shame to waste the setup for Andre Ward's character in film 1, although he's busy boxing for real these days so maybe they've just pushed that back till he retires.

They should get Sergey Kovalev in as the Drago heir. Or Artur Beterbiev.

[Macros]

Black Rocky versus the Universal Soldier?

I'm sold

[Coco with marshmallows]

Spiderman: Homecoming is excellent.

that is all.

[Gorefest]

Seconded. Just returned from it and still grinning. And trolled by bleeding capt America.

[Gorefest]

New one blows previous spideys out of the water.

[Aptorian]

Well, you're twisting my arm. I guess now I am forced to go watch the film today. Awh shucks!

[Macros]

I have a cinema date tonight, are you all sayingredients spider is the film to see.

Bearing in mind I want to see it and don't give a fucking whatyou lady date wants to see as I am paying

[Macros]

We're gowing to go see house instead.

I love will ferrell so I'm happy enough, but want to see spiderman

[Aptorian]

Macros, on 09 July 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

I have a cinema date tonight, are you all sayingredients spider is the film to see.

Bearing in mind I want to see it and don't give a fucking whatyou lady date wants to see as I am paying

Macros, on 09 July 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

We're gowing to go see house instead.

I love will ferrell so I'm happy enough, but want to see spiderman

[Coco with marshmallows]

Seduce Goose, on 09 July 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

Macros, on 09 July 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

I have a cinema date tonight, are you all sayingredients spider is the film to see.

Bearing in mind I want to see it and don't give a fucking whatyou lady date wants to see as I am paying

Macros, on 09 July 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

We're gowing to go see house instead.

I love will ferrell so I'm happy enough, but want to see spiderman

^ this

[QuickTidal]

Coco with marshmallows, on 09 July 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Seduce Goose, on 09 July 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

Macros, on 09 July 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

I have a cinema date tonight, are you all sayingredients spider is the film to see.

Bearing in mind I want to see it and don't give a fucking whatyou lady date wants to see as I am paying

Macros, on 09 July 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

We're gowing to go see house instead.

I love will ferrell so I'm happy enough, but want to see spiderman

^ this

Indeed. This went EXACTLY as I'd assume it would. Lol