[Mentalist]

For the main plotline--we've discussed it. There are at least 3 "main plotlines" in MBOTF
1) the Crippled God
2) KE, its shattering and possible rebirth/healing
3) Malazan Empire itself (although by now it might become an ICE-mostly topic...

[Traveller]

Exactly how old is Karsa, anyway? In DG Leoman says he's seen 17 summers. In HOC's he's about 80... young for Toblakai though. Just a slip?

[Aptorian]

I think the accepted explanation was that mentally, attitude and experience wise, Karsa was a teenager. Actually he was far older than a normal humans lifespan. Think of the changes that had happened with the seaport since Karsa's grandfather attacked it.

[amphibian]

Traveller;258007 said:

Exactly how old is Karsa, anyway? In DG Leoman says he's seen 17 summers. In HOC's he's about 80... young for Toblakai though. Just a slip?

This is kind of random, but I don't recall Leoman and Karsa ever having real conversations. My point is that this might not be another GotM-ism; Leoman might be guessing at Karsa's age in DG.

[pat5150]

Well, for my money, the US cover art for Toll the Hounds is second only to the UK cover for Deadhouse Gates. I really like it and can't wait to pimp it on the blog tomorrow night!

Patrick

[Vengeance]

Pat you suck....I mean that in the nicest way possible...

[Mentalist]

Karsa was supposedly 80, which would be an equivalent of 17 years for a human, since TTT aren't human, and thus have diff. development and lifespans.

[Zanth13]

So where is this cover?!?!?! its Wednesday. now....

wait I guess that depends on what part of the world your in

its almost 10 in the morning here in hell...

and I will go ahead and 13th the Karsa being 80ish thing... anything that suggest different is because the other character was
Guessing, drawing Parallels between human and teblor years (kinda of like we have dog years) or jut making shiz up

[Skywalker]

kud13;258097 said:

Karsa was supposedly 80, which would be an equivalent of 17 years for a human, since TTT aren't human, and thus have diff. development and lifespans.

Here is that quote from DG... Leoman talking:

Quote

You are wrong. My companion is Toblakai, an escaped slave from the Laederon Plateau of Genabackis. He's seen seventeen summers and has personally killed forty-one enemies. Those are their ears on his belt.

EDIT: Did the Teblor have any initiation ceremonies like the Awl's Death Night? I don't have HoC on me... maybe 17 is the number of years since Karsa's first kill or something.

[Aptorian]

Leoman is of course also a great pillar of truth and reliability.

[Abyss]

I think somewhere in HoC it's mentioned that Teblor years and Human years aren't the same. Plus, by the time Kalam meets Karsa/Toblakai, he's already lost his clothes and killed way more than 41 enemies - that's probably a ref just to what he's done in Leoman's company since they met.


- Abyss, wonders why no one ever keeps their enemies' noses....

[tiam]

Skywalker;258266 said:

Here is that quote from DG... Leoman talking:



EDIT: Did the Teblor have any initiation ceremonies like the Awl's Death Night? I don't have HoC on me... maybe 17 is the number of years since Karsa's first kill or something.

Id say inconsistency or possible how long hes been with Karsa. Hes already by the time we see him in HOC.

[Flawed]

Agreed as im sure it was said early on in that book that he was in fact 80 odd?

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah it says that early in House of Chains. 80 for a Teblor is like being 20-25 human age I guess.

[ShadowOwl]

In a totally different direction, and from viewing the Toll the Hounds cover picture, got me thinking about the axe and the light.

In GotM, when Rake confronts the demon Galayn Lord:
The demon says "...I smell the reek of Tiama in you Lord..."
And as they fight, "The demon's ax flared bright white, cascading light like liquid. Rake's sword was swallowed in darkness, devouring the lashing waves of light that struck it."
And finally, "Rake began to launch attacks, savage swings of his black weapon. At first the demon held its ground, delivering fierce ripostes, then staggered back a step, then another. Relentless, Rake pressed his attack. 'To the Mother's regret,' he grated between blows, 'was Light granted birth. To her dismay...she saw too late...its corruption. Galayn...you are the unintended victim...to punishment...long overdue.' "

If the demon's weapon gives off light and Rake's weapon gives off dark, to simplify it, perhaps this is a subtle clue that the Light is the from the demon's plane of existence. If so, then Father Light was a demon probably corrupted by the power of Mother Dark and the creation of the new Tiste races, and that is why Rake said what he did, and why they all felt so betrayed.
Further, demons have the power to be soletaken dragons without Tiama, which they may have gotten from Father Light's corruption?

I'm probably not explaining this well, but as SE said he has given all the clues needed to figure it all out, maybe this idea has some merit. All the Tiste are certainly aware of the demon plane, which seems quite advanced as we see thru the use of many demons throughout the books so far.
Anyway, something to think about....

[Kurt Montandon]

Abyss;258337 said:

I think somewhere in HoC it's mentioned that Teblor years and Human years aren't the same.

I'm assuming you mean that they age more slowly, not that they count time differently.

A quick, added note: Karsa's grandfather is old at close to five hundred years, giving us a rough estimate of their lifespans (Karsa thinks to himself that Silver Lake has been untouched for four-hundred years, since his grandfather's raid, and figure that Pahlk was at maturity when he left, or nearly a century old).

On top of which, the Imass discussing among themselves that the new child would require a century of waiting, so figure a few human years just for the pregnancy.

[amphibian]

ShadowOwl;259663 said:

In a totally different direction, and from viewing the Toll the Hounds cover picture, got me thinking about the axe and the light.

In GotM, when Rake confronts the demon Galayn Lord:
The demon says "...I smell the reek of Tiama in you Lord..."
And as they fight, "The demon's ax flared bright white, cascading light like liquid. Rake's sword was swallowed in darkness, devouring the lashing waves of light that struck it."
And finally, "Rake began to launch attacks, savage swings of his black weapon. At first the demon held its ground, delivering fierce ripostes, then staggered back a step, then another. Relentless, Rake pressed his attack. 'To the Mother's regret,' he grated between blows, 'was Light granted birth. To her dismay...she saw too late...its corruption. Galayn...you are the unintended victim...to punishment...long overdue.' "

If the demon's weapon gives off light and Rake's weapon gives off dark, to simplify it, perhaps this is a subtle clue that the Light is the from the demon's plane of existence. If so, then Father Light was a demon probably corrupted by the power of Mother Dark and the creation of the new Tiste races, and that is why Rake said what he did, and why they all felt so betrayed.
Further, demons have the power to be soletaken dragons without Tiama, which they may have gotten from Father Light's corruption?

I'm probably not explaining this well, but as SE said he has given all the clues needed to figure it all out, maybe this idea has some merit. All the Tiste are certainly aware of the demon plane, which seems quite advanced as we see thru the use of many demons throughout the books so far.
Anyway, something to think about....

I like this idea, but Dragnipur was made by Draconus - not Anomander Rake.

[Mentalist]

Hmmm
I always drew the connection Between Galayn Lord and Kurald Galain...
That's just me though...

EDIT: the US cover is actually well-done for once.... but why the wolves? and who's the dude witht he axe?
let us speculate!

[Dancer+]

There's already been a lot of speculation. No definite conclusions have been sought across.

I think it is the name alone which leads us to this connection.

[Aptorian]

Slightly connected question... Anyone remember the meaning of Rake and Dragnipurs names?

Anomandaris Purake and Dragnipurake. I remember someone having a theory on the meaning of Purake.