[champ]

QuickTidal, on 06 September 2022 - 02:25 PM, said:

There might be a case to be made that it's

Spoiler

Sauron....but I don't see them doing the whole fantasy plot line of "I don't know who I am yet, so I'll be good until I remember I'm Morgoth's lieutenant and turn evil, haha surprised you!" trope....but I suppose it's feasible

But I would find that lacklustre.

I think it is more likely to be that...

Spoiler

With Sauron in his Annatar form rather than it Gandalf. I think we are meant to think it is Gandalf but there will be the big reveal twist. More think it's Sauron because he broke that dudes ankle, even if not intentionally...

Edit...

To add to that too...

Spoiler

We see the crash to earth as Galadriel turns her back on her reward because she thinks she is not finished yet with Sauron, thematically lines up.

This post has been edited by champ: 06 September 2022 - 02:53 PM

[Malankazooie]

First episode done. It sure is purdy, there's no denying that. But it reminds me of those video games that offer "skins" for your player, like in Fortnite for instance you can buy the Spider-Man skin and run around in the game looking like him. But it doesn't have any thing that indicates it's Spider-Man except looking the part. That's what this is like, but with Tolkien's work.

When the meteor cracked open, this came to mind.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

QuickTidal, on 06 September 2022 - 02:25 PM, said:

Wife fell asleep in Episode 2 as well...and I nearly did too.


It's gorgeous....and it LOOKS the part of the prequel to the LOTR movies that they seem to want it to be, but I still have issues...

Are we all in agreement that meteor man is

Spoiler

Gandalf in some early middle earth raiment? I know the Istari technically don't show up till the 3rd Age, but the Maiar that is Gandalf showed up (usually with Nienna) before that in the 1st and likely 2nd age too in "human clothes"...and having him interact with the Hobbit pre-cursors like this will absolutely feed the reasons why Gandalf has such a strong bond with them in the 3rd Age.

There might be a case to be made that it's

Spoiler

Sauron....but I don't see them doing the whole fantasy plot line of "I don't know who I am yet, so I'll be good until I remember I'm Morgoth's lieutenant and turn evil, haha surprised you!" trope....but I suppose it's feasible

But I would find that lacklustre.

I still love the Harfoot storyline best...like by a long stretch.

Elrond and Celebrimbor's discussion mentioning Fëanor and the Silmarils only makes me more annoyed that they can't dive into it much...there's so much meat there that INFORMS the rings of power that came before that they can't touch. So it still feels missing.

The visit to Khazad-Um was nice, and I liked seeing it at its height like that.


I dunno, this show needs to be a bit pacier if it's going to stand on it's own and not rest on nostalgia from the fans of the movies to propel it forward.

I like it, but if the first two eps set a Tolkien-fan and a non-Tolkien fan asleep in the same household....something needs to click.

Caught up and watched the second episode today.

We're both still firmly in "it's fine" teritory.

I liked Galadriel a lot less in the second ep, she came across too close to stroppy teenager and whilst I appreciate this is a much younger and more war-like Galadriel she's still an ancient elf and it feels an odd vibe for her.

Celebrimbor reducing the tragedy of the history of the Silmarils to "Creativity needs sacrifice" has been my one major eyebrow raise so far. Dude, that is COLD. But if they go with his role as per books then I think the rest of that scene set up an unreasonable drive which could be manipulated so events unfold.

I felt that either option for Meteor Man mentioned in your spoiler tags would feel kind of naff, but I lean more towards it being the second one.

Otherwise in agreement with most of what you've said there, it needs to start moving more.

As a positive aside though.... I think the ship at the end was Numenorean. Can't wait to see it!

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 06 September 2022 - 06:06 PM

[Slow Ben]

Yep. Its fine, so far. I'm definitely enjoying it enough to keep watching, could go either way but i'm cautiously optimistic.

[Briar King]

Oh. My. Gawd. That. Ep. Sucked¡

[Tiste Simeon]

Episode 3!

Spoiler

Wow Numenor was beautiful! Utterly stunningly designed and really drew me in.

So Elendil is just a Captain not the king of men? I take that's what the argument between him, Isildur and his daughter was about at the table? Is he the king that he mentioned is in exile? But then who is the Queen talking to at the end when she says "father"? I assume Elendil does not want to be king but Isildur wants him to... Is the king Elros, the human brother of Elrond? (Was Elros human?) Do the Numenoreans have longer lives than other men?

Speaking of men, is Halbrand an original character for the show or is the king of the Southland's significant?

If that actually was Sauron at the very end with the orcs then my theory about meteor man = Annatar/Sauron is wrong...

I loved the fight scenes with the Elves and orcs in the digging place, Arnodir is ace.

Really enjoying this show. Yes I've seen a lot of criticism and yes I'm aware that many things could be more fleshed out but it's really keeping my interest!

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 09 September 2022 - 09:28 PM

[Tsundoku]

Tiste Simeon, on 09 September 2022 - 09:27 PM, said:

Episode 3!

Spoiler

Wow Numenor was beautiful! Utterly stunningly designed and really drew me in.

So Elendil is just a Captain not the king of men? I take that's what the argument between him, Isildur and his daughter was about at the table? Is he the king that he mentioned is in exile? But then who is the Queen talking to at the end when she says "father"? I assume Elendil does not want to be king but Isildur wants him to... Is the king Elros, the human brother of Elrond? (Was Elros human?) Do the Numenoreans have longer lives than other men?

Speaking of men, is Halbrand an original character for the show or is the king of the Southland's significant?

If that actually was Sauron at the very end with the orcs then my theory about meteor man = Annatar/Sauron is wrong...

I loved the fight scenes with the Elves and orcs in the digging place, Arnodir is ace.

Really enjoying this show. Yes I've seen a lot of criticism and yes I'm aware that many things could be more fleshed out but it's really keeping my interest!

Simmo

Spoiler

If it's as per the Silmarillion then Elendil is the leader of the Faithful Numenorean faction who still follow the dictates of the Valar (ie stay away from Valinor) as opposed to the majority of the population who are called the King's Men under King Ar-Pharazon who have fallen away from following the Valar, hundreds of years after Elros aka King Tar-Minyatur was the first Numrnorean King.
Elros and his brother Elrond were half-elves. Elrond chose to be an Elf and Elros chose to be human, albeit with a huge lifespan, which was the hallmark of the Numenoreans and the line of kings in particular.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 10 September 2022 - 07:01 AM

[Cause]

I enjoyed this episode more than the others.

Galadriels personality seems off.

The cgi was some of the worst I have ever seen

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

I was a bit disappointed with this episode. It felt like we were still watching the set up. I had hoped we were starting to move beyond that.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Tsundoku, on 09 September 2022 - 09:33 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 09 September 2022 - 09:27 PM, said:

Episode 3!

Spoiler

Wow Numenor was beautiful! Utterly stunningly designed and really drew me in.

So Elendil is just a Captain not the king of men? I take that's what the argument between him, Isildur and his daughter was about at the table? Is he the king that he mentioned is in exile? But then who is the Queen talking to at the end when she says "father"? I assume Elendil does not want to be king but Isildur wants him to... Is the king Elros, the human brother of Elrond? (Was Elros human?) Do the Numenoreans have longer lives than other men?

Speaking of men, is Halbrand an original character for the show or is the king of the Southland's significant?

If that actually was Sauron at the very end with the orcs then my theory about meteor man = Annatar/Sauron is wrong...

I loved the fight scenes with the Elves and orcs in the digging place, Arnodir is ace.

Really enjoying this show. Yes I've seen a lot of criticism and yes I'm aware that many things could be more fleshed out but it's really keeping my interest!

Simmo

Spoiler

If it's as per the Silmarillion then Elendil is the leader of the Faithful Numenorean faction who still follow the dictates of the Valar (ie stay away from Valinor) as opposed to the majority of the population who are called the King's Men under King Ar-Pharazon who have fallen away from following the Valar, hundreds of years after Elros aka King Tar-Minyatur was the first Numrnorean King.
Elros and his brother Elrond were half-elves. Elrond chose to be an Elf and Elros chose to be human, albeit with a huge lifespan, which was the hallmark of the Numernoreans and the line of kings in particular.

A little more added to Tsundoku's explanation:

Spoiler

Halbrand is an original character. The Southlands don't really feature in the books that I remember beyond mention.

The king in exile, I think, is the queen's father. The queen is Tar-Miriel, and her father is Tar-Palantir, the last king who (in the books) tried to turn Numenor back towards the Valar and renew friendship with the elves, although that doesn't seem to be what they're going for here.

I think the Numenor arc in particular is going to be one where you feel the bite of what they do and don't have access to. The geaneology of Numenor is in the Appendices, but the Akallabeth story is in the Silmarillion - so they have the names, but not the story. And it's showing in terms of what they've presented so far of the current ruling setup.

I'm going to give it a couple more episodes but I think more than anything I'm a bit bored. The jumping between threads is irritating (though I suspect some of those will meet eventually and we'll end up with fewer of them) and as much as Numenor looked spectacular I didnt really care about anything that was happening. Halbrand's arc has been done to death both in LOTR itself and plenty of other fantasy, and it feels just.... naff. The actress playing Galadriel is doing some good stuff with what she's given but the character is starting to feel like it's being reduced to the standard Hollywood "cool girl badass" as the only idea of how to show a strong female character.

One huge positive for me is the casting of Elendil - he's superb. So much status and presence before he's even said anything. And as much as I wasn't sold on Meteor Man it feels like the arc with him and the Harfoots is building into something really nice. The Harfoots feel more like a whole lived in culture to me than any other thread at the moment, and they continue to be the best thread.

This is very much a me thing - can we please stop having bones broken right in front of the camera? It's ICK.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 10 September 2022 - 06:52 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Gwynn ap Nudd, on 10 September 2022 - 05:21 AM, said:

I was a bit disappointed with this episode. It felt like we were still watching the set up. I had hoped we were starting to move beyond that.

It's already greenlit for at least 5 seasons, the set up is probably just the first 4....

[Tavvar]

I enjoyed that episode a lot more than the first two! I think I am starting to see where it is going with Sauron corrupting Numenor and Celebrimbor, then bringing about the war that ended the Second Age. I am looking forward to how they do all of this, as right now it actually seems a bit rushed to me based on where they're at in the timeline.

I'm still zoning out on the Harfoot storyline, don't really care for it. Based on where the other characters are, the Stranger may be a new character? I don't think the Sauron imagery fits (unless its not at the same time at the other threads).

[QuickTidal]

Tavvar, on 12 September 2022 - 04:11 PM, said:

with Sauron corrupting Numenor and Celebrimbor

Oh yeah and he's already done it too...

Celebrimbor is already co-opted and seduced into doing Sauron's bidding the minute we meet him on screen.

We are talking about the guy who is descended from one of the most covetous elves to have ever lived (Fëanor) and seeks to copy his "crafting".

Enter a Maiar that can give him that easily.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Agreed. Celebrimbor was giving me "I must complete this great work at all costs" vibes from the off. I think Sauron's already got him.

I also saw an interesting idea about who Halbrand is going to end up being today that I hadn't considered:

Spoiler

I still hate the laziness of "king of a lost kingdom", but the two theories I saw were either Witch King of Angmar (on the assumption that Sauron needs to be in Middle Earth in the Celebrimbor arc and so Halbrand will be the nudge in Numenor, which I'm not sure I completely agree with as Sauron seems to have already presented the idea of the rings. The option I liked better is that he's the King of the Dead, who swore the oath to Isildur to aid him and broke it, thus cursing him and his people. That feels like a moment we could see in this storyline.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 13 September 2022 - 05:22 AM

[Briar King]

I think he’s Sauron.

[Tiste Simeon]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 13 September 2022 - 05:15 AM, said:

Agreed. Celebrimbor was giving me "I must complete this great work at all costs" vibes from the off. I think Sauron's already got him.

I also saw an interesting idea about who Halbrand is going to end up being today that I hadn't considered:

Spoiler

I still hate the laziness of "king of a lost kingdom", but the two theories I saw were either Witch King of Angmar (on the assumption that Sauron needs to be in Middle Earth in the Celebrimbor arc and so Halbrand will be the nudge in Numenor, which I'm not sure I completely agree with as Sauron seems to have already presented the idea of the rings. The option I liked better is that he's the King of the Dead, who swore the oath to Isildur to aid him and broke it, thus cursing him and his people. That feels like a moment we could see in this storyline.

Ooh I like the second theory. Though for some reason I thought that if Numenor eventually becomes Gondor then Southland's eventually become Rohan? Dunno, I'm probably reaching or justissing some lore that I'm unaware of haha

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Tiste Simeon, on 13 September 2022 - 09:56 AM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 13 September 2022 - 05:15 AM, said:

Agreed. Celebrimbor was giving me "I must complete this great work at all costs" vibes from the off. I think Sauron's already got him.

I also saw an interesting idea about who Halbrand is going to end up being today that I hadn't considered:

Spoiler

I still hate the laziness of "king of a lost kingdom", but the two theories I saw were either Witch King of Angmar (on the assumption that Sauron needs to be in Middle Earth in the Celebrimbor arc and so Halbrand will be the nudge in Numenor, which I'm not sure I completely agree with as Sauron seems to have already presented the idea of the rings. The option I liked better is that he's the King of the Dead, who swore the oath to Isildur to aid him and broke it, thus cursing him and his people. That feels like a moment we could see in this storyline.

Ooh I like the second theory. Though for some reason I thought that if Numenor eventually becomes Gondor then Southland's eventually become Rohan? Dunno, I'm probably reaching or justissing some lore that I'm unaware of haha

Looking at the Southlands on the map (as shown in the show) I would say the Southlands is on its way to becoming Mordor.

A portion of the Southlands still appears on the LOTR map, but it's got a bracket note of something along the lines of "now a barren and disputed land" under it.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 13 September 2022 - 09:56 AM, said:

Though for some reason I thought that if Numenor eventually becomes Gondor then Southland's eventually become Rohan? Dunno, I'm probably reaching or justissing some lore that I'm unaware of haha

Not sure how much Tolkien you've read but in regards to Numenor...

Spoiler

It's Atlantis. It eventually sinks into the sea before the end of the 2nd Age.

Here's a Map of what the land looks like in the 2nd Age.

You can see that Mordor very much would be South of all the action, so Southlands=Mordor is probably accurate.

Rohan is also north of Gondor on the 3rd Age map.

 Amazon-map-3-7-19.jpg (113.99K)
Number of downloads: 0

[Tiste Simeon]

Thanks for all your replies chaps. I've not read much in the way of Tolkein beyond LOTR and the Hobbit a few times and the Silmarillion once, years ago. I watch a channel called Nerd of the Rings and this TV show has given me more of a desire to delve into it. As such I hope to get The Children of Hurin at some point and also this book that looks fantastic: https://www.hive.co....Guide-/27116949

Also I thought Mordor already existed in the show?

Spoiler

the symbol that keeps appearing is a map of Mordor right? And if Galadriel can see it on a map it's surely there already?

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 13 September 2022 - 04:12 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 13 September 2022 - 04:11 PM, said:

Thanks for all your replies chaps. I've not read much in the way of Tolkein beyond LOTR and the Hobbit a few times and the Silmarillion once, years ago. I watch a channel called Nerd of the Rings and this TV show has given me more of a desire to delve into it. As such I hope to get The Children of Hurin at some point and also this book that looks fantastic: https://www.hive.co....Guide-/27116949

Also I thought Mordor already existed in the show?

Spoiler

the symbol that keeps appearing is a map of Mordor right? And if Galadriel can see it on a map it's surely there already?

Do you mean Sauron's symbol? I'm more of the mind that it's the 'Eye' (or precursor to it) as Sauron very explicitly does not allow his name to be written down, so the symbol would be a good shorthand for his followers. Turn that symbol on its side and it suddenly looks very much like a stylized eye.

The map theory is a bit of a reach if only becuase the middle section of Mordor has not real mountain range to make up the middle part of the symbol...and Mouth Doom (where he forged the one ring) is in the northwest corner, not in the middle.

At this point anything can happen, but I feel like it's the eye/Sauron's "name".

The compressed timelines of the show make whether or not Mordor exists yet and if Sauron has settled it as his main base yet a little hard to know...in the books he settles there "at some point" in the second age, and we don't hear much about it till he uses Mount Doom to forge the One Ring. So maybe yes it already exists? It's not the threat it becomes til after they realize that ---------spoilers.......

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 September 2022 - 04:39 PM