[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 14 February 2022 - 06:36 PM, said:

Elanor was a small, star-shaped yellow flower. It was one of the flowers brought by the Elves from Tol Eressëa to Númenor. Lining right up with this show's timeline...Sam and Frodo used the same flower to name Sam's daughter as the elves thousands of years earlier.

Well, if this pre-Hobbit happens to come from a family that had contact with the big Elvish island boat, or Numenor, and a reason to name their daughter after it, I suppose I might take that criticism back, but their lines in the trailer doesn't make me confident they come from a line familiar with the great and wise of Middle-Earth. But someone with that history would be more likely to be a Fallohide than a Harfoot (though I concede it's not *impossible*).


The surname thing doesn't work though coz even if you buy the surnames evolving by swapping suffixes in that manner the Brandybucks are specifically named after the Braranduin/Brandywine river and didn't take that name till after they settled there. Pre-Shire wanderers shouldn't have that prefix, at all.


*waves the Sword that was Nerded*


eta: it's also not clear that the Hobbits should have family names at all at this time, since the appendices say that practice started 'some centuries' before LotR which, while not technically incompatible with the three or four millenia, depending on how hard they compress the timeline here, separating these chaps from the Bagginses, is a bit of a stretch.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 14 February 2022 - 07:16 PM

[champ]

QuickTidal, on 14 February 2022 - 06:36 PM, said:

EDIT:

In before Macros says it: NERDS!

I was reading the thread thinking Macros is definitely going to pop up here with this comment then saw your edit, made me lol.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 14 February 2022 - 07:01 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 February 2022 - 06:36 PM, said:

Elanor was a small, star-shaped yellow flower. It was one of the flowers brought by the Elves from Tol Eressëa to Númenor. Lining right up with this show's timeline...Sam and Frodo used the same flower to name Sam's daughter as the elves thousands of years earlier.

Well, if this pre-Hobbit happens to come from a family that had contact with the big Elvish island boat, or Numenor, and a reason to name their daughter after it, I suppose I might take that criticism back, but their lines in the trailer doesn't make me confident they come from a line familiar with the great and wise of Middle-Earth. But someone with that history would be more likely to be a Fallohide than a Harfoot (though I concede it's not *impossible*).

The Elvish city of Lindon in the west of Beleriand is in the show, and as such just the presence of the Noldor there is reason enough for the flowers to be mentioned our even evidenced (if they brought them from Eressëa to Numenor, why not Beleriand too?) and the Harfoots would be close enough to find that name.

But then I also don't feel like they will or need to explain why she's called Elanor. I'm just saying the name exists in the long history of Arda and was not just something Sam and Frodo coined.

polishgenius, on 14 February 2022 - 07:01 PM, said:

The surname thing doesn't work though coz even if you buy the surnames evolving by swapping suffixes in that manner the Brandybucks are specifically named after the Braranduin/Brandywine river and didn't take that name till after they settled there. Pre-Shire wanderers shouldn't have that prefix, at all.

Oooooo, out-Tolkiened!

Okay, but who's to say her family name as Harfoot didn't come from the drink "brandy" instead of the lineage that led to Merry's family then?

I'm just saying that calling it something out of name generator is a little OTT when it's a perfectly valid proto-hobbit name that uses the typical "Foot" part we already know exists, so if your gripe is just to do with the brandy part, that's easily fixed by it coming from the drink.

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

Based on what I've seen in this teaser trailer, the series looks cheap and the world doesn't feel lived in.

[polishgenius]

I mean, you could make plausible reasons for all of that, but I can't help but feel that you've now put more thought into it then they did


This little detail is just more a symptom of my general unease about the whole thing, though. Like I suppose there's no specific reason why Galadriel wouldn't ever be climbing an ice mountain with a knife, or be wearing armour commanding the Northern Armies, and she was the one who was wary about Sauron rising in the Second Age, but I don't feel it really fits in with how she is in the books to make that happen. And like I say, I'm not fond of the time-shortening, no matter how good the practical reasoning for doing it.

But honestly I'm just not sure I'm the audience for this show. I hope it's better than I fear.

[Cause]

The elven arms and armor were distinct in the movies. Often Galadriel is shown to be almost glowing. Their hair is I naturally blond or silver.

Yes Elrond is dirty in the biggest battle of the third age. That’s not really my point though. In that battle elven armor is green, it’s light and made of overlapping bands and pets of the armor, the shields and helmets evoke leaves. Their sword handles are all elegant and curved.

Galadriel armor and sword looks like it come from medieval Europe. Now I suppose glamdring looked like a typical long sword so it’s not impossible but if she didn’t show her ears Galadriel does not look elvish.

Does that mean the show will suck? No. It’s just something I thought while watching a thirty second teaser.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 14 February 2022 - 07:55 PM, said:

Like I suppose there's no specific reason why Galadriel wouldn't ever be climbing an ice mountain with a knife, or be wearing armour commanding the Northern Armies,

There's tonnes about Galadriel that Tolkien wrote before he passed (in fact apparently Galadriel was who he was editing some writing about in the month he passed away).

Like here's some of his stuff that backs this warrior notion up:

Tolkien's description of Eowyn: "she was also not really a soldier or 'amazon', but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis." - Tolkien letters

"Galadriel, like all the other names of elvish persons in The Lord of the Rings, is an invention of my own. It is in Sindarin form (see Appendices E and F) and means 'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'. It is a secondary name given to her in her youth in the far past because she had long hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." ~ Unfinished Tales.

"Her name was Artanis Nerwen the Man-maiden. Until in Doriath, around 60 First Age, her husband gave her a new name: 'Galadriel'. She loved this name so much she decided to go on with this name the rest of her life." ~Letters I think?

And since we know she leads the Noldor across the Helcaraxë, and thus in direct confrontation with Morgoth.

Tolkien intentionally made her a warrior in the 1st and likely 2nd Ages.

Her climbing the Forodwaith (likely to ally with those fighting in Angband) still seems quite in line with the pre-3rd Age Senior Healer/Priestess version of Galadriel we see who is about to retire. You can sense when Frodo meets her that there's some darker and more warrior-like history there when she says the One Ring would turn her into some crazy martial evil queen...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 February 2022 - 08:40 PM

[Macros]

I'm a big Tolkien fan, but good grief guys

[Werthead]

Cause, on 14 February 2022 - 08:32 PM, said:

The elven arms and armor were distinct in the movies. Often Galadriel is shown to be almost glowing. Their hair is I naturally blond or silver.

Yes Elrond is dirty in the biggest battle of the third age. That’s not really my point though. In that battle elven armor is green, it’s light and made of overlapping bands and pets of the armor, the shields and helmets evoke leaves. Their sword handles are all elegant and curved.

I believe Tolkien described elven swords as almost always straight. I recall significant crumbling about the curved elven swords in the films.

It does feel like the makers of the TV show are being hammered for sticking with the book lore in some areas and sticking with PJ film continuity (if only visual at this stage) in others.

[Tiste Simeon]

I honestly don't know how some of you can ever enjoy anything if this is the amount of analysis and criticism that goes into a short trailer.

Like sheesh, sometimes it's ok just to like something.

[polishgenius]

Being told that analysing things and getting into detail is an invalid form of enjoyment is really annoying.

[worry]

[Tiste Simeon]

polishgenius, on 15 February 2022 - 05:32 AM, said:

Being told that analysing things and getting into detail is an invalid form of enjoyment is really annoying.

Apologies but you don't seem to enjoy anything. Just criticise.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Newest trailer didn't wow me, not really sure why. Still, definitely on board to watch and see.

The "woke bullshit" nonsense leading the commentary is tiring.

[polishgenius]

Tiste Simeon, on 15 February 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

Apologies but you don't seem to enjoy anything. Just criticise.

I mean this just clearly isn't true? I'm glowingly enthusiastic about plenty of things. I also get into these critical debates coz I enjoy that too even if I don't think a thing was that good- it's part of how I enjoy things even that I thought were bad. I'm fairly sure QT enjoys a disagreement too coz otherwise we wouldn't end up in all these back-and-forth ding-dongs... but you know my bad if not


I'm also pretty sure my lack of enjoyment (or just scepticism/worry in this case) of a thing doesn't in fact make a thing worse to stop you enjoying it so... ????

[Tsundoku]

Remember guys, you can't have "deep analysis" without "deep anal".

PG is just expressing his thoughts, not raining on the parade or calling you a poopoohead for your unadulterated joy.

I'm somewhere in between. I fear the bean counters at Amazon may have fucked with the vision, but I hope it's more a case of tempering artistic streaks and keeping it tightly focussed.
I'm hoping it's more LOTR trilogy and nothing like the worst of the Hobbit trilogy excesses. All killer no filler.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 15 February 2022 - 11:58 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

polishgenius, on 15 February 2022 - 11:36 AM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 15 February 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

Apologies but you don't seem to enjoy anything. Just criticise.

I mean this just clearly isn't true? I'm glowingly enthusiastic about plenty of things. I also get into these critical debates coz I enjoy that too even if I don't think a thing was that good- it's part of how I enjoy things even that I thought were bad. I'm fairly sure QT enjoys a disagreement too coz otherwise we wouldn't end up in all these back-and-forth ding-dongs... but you know my bad if not


I'm also pretty sure my lack of enjoyment (or just scepticism/worry in this case) of a thing doesn't in fact make a thing worse to stop you enjoying it so... ????

You're right. Apologies. It wasn't necessarily directed at you but I was just observing that to my mind, completely ripping a thing apart detracts from the enjoyment. I obviously don't have that kind of mindset, though I do enjoy reading the back and forth.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 15 February 2022 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'm fairly sure QT enjoys a disagreement too coz otherwise we wouldn't end up in all these back-and-forth ding-dongs...

Yup. I love debating like this, whether I'm on the "I like it" side or the "I don't like it" side. It's fun to get into the nitty gritty.

[Werthead]

worry, on 15 February 2022 - 07:01 AM, said:

Thermonuclear-level lawsuit alert. This animated movie exists solely because it's a rights-holding measure. Warner Brothers needed to get a new Middle-earth movie in production by the end of 2021 to hold onto the movie rights (originally licensed from the Saul Zaentz Company in 1997 to make the OG Jackson trilogy and extended to make the Hobbit trilogy) so WB put this animated movie intro production. The Saul Zaentz Company did not believe that an animated film fulfilled the criteria so they apparently proclaimed a reversal of the rights on New Year's Eve and have put the rights out to sale for $2 billion, no doubt hoping that Amazon ponies up so they gain full control of all the screen rights to LotR and The Hobbit.

However, Warner Brothers believes that they have fulfilled the criteria and reportedly there are urgent meetings going on behind closed doors in Hollywood between WB's representatives and the SZC's. It could end up in court, which would be interesting.

[QuickTidal]

Werthead, on 15 February 2022 - 07:32 PM, said:

worry, on 15 February 2022 - 07:01 AM, said:

Thermonuclear-level lawsuit alert. This animated movie exists solely because it's a rights-holding measure. Warner Brothers needed to get a new Middle-earth movie in production by the end of 2021 to hold onto the movie rights (originally licensed from the Saul Zaentz Company in 1997 to make the OG Jackson trilogy and extended to make the Hobbit trilogy) so WB put this animated movie intro production. The Saul Zaentz Company did not believe that an animated film fulfilled the criteria so they apparently proclaimed a reversal of the rights on New Year's Eve and have put the rights out to sale for $2 billion, no doubt hoping that Amazon ponies up so they gain full control of all the screen rights to LotR and The Hobbit.

However, Warner Brothers believes that they have fulfilled the criteria and reportedly there are urgent meetings going on behind closed doors in Hollywood between WB's representatives and the SZC's. It could end up in court, which would be interesting.

And Peter Jackson posted on FB that he's excited of the anime and supportive of the attempt and will "be in line day 1 to see it in theatre". And it sounds like LOTR writer Phillipa Boyens gave the job to her daughter Phoebe Gittins after she was asked to pen it?

Sounds like a right royal mess all around.