[D'rek]

Azath Vitr (D, on 21 January 2022 - 12:30 AM, said:

Wonder if Tolkien was aware of this (almost certainly to some extent):

'In languages spoken around the world, words describing rough surfaces are highly likely to feature a "trilled /r/" sound—a linguistic pattern that stretches back over 6,000 years, a new study reveals.

[...] from Basque "zakarra" and Mongolian "barzgar" to Dutch "ruw" and Hungarian "durva," these words feature the common sound—an "r" pronounced as an Italian speaker might say "arrivederci."

[..-..]

[Not anywhere near as exaggerated as in the Amazon clip. Much closer to Tolkien's pronunciation.]

Next, they found that the "/r/-for-rough" pattern is prevalent across sensory words in 38 present-day Indo-European languages. It can even be traced to the reconstructed roots of Proto-Indo-European—indicating that the pattern has likely existed in this large language family for more than six millennia.

[...]

[...] "This is one of the most widespread examples so far of cross-modal iconicity in spoken languages—linking the sounds of speech to the sense of touch. Such cross-modal associations can play a significant role in shaping the forms of spoken words in natural languages—showing that many aspects of language structure are shaped by the human ability to spot and use perceptual analogies that create iconic links between form and meaning."'

I guess 'Mordor' is pretty rough, eh?

Rough neighborhood anyway....

Is Tolkien Elvish supposed to be a fake indo-european language and therefore should follow indo-european language trends, though?

[D'rek]

Also, that study you're linking to was published 20 January 2022... I don't think Tolkien was still working on his conlang 3 days ago, so even if that trend applies universal to every human (or elf?) language in the world (and fiction) he wouldn't have known to incorporate that into his conlang in time before he published it.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

D, on 23 January 2022 - 07:56 PM, said:

Also, that study you're linking to was published 20 January 2022... I don't think Tolkien was still working on his conlang 3 days ago, so even if that trend applies universal to every human (or elf?) language in the world (and fiction) he wouldn't have known to incorporate that into his conlang in time before he published it.

Yes, but as a linguist acquainted with many different languages he would at least have been aware of similar words in languages he was familiar with, and may well have consciously noticed the pattern (in at least those languages). IDK when an observation of the pattern (or some variant of it) for at least some subset of languages was first published.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 January 2022 - 08:16 PM

[D'rek]

Azath Vitr (D, on 23 January 2022 - 08:15 PM, said:

D, on 23 January 2022 - 07:56 PM, said:

Also, that study you're linking to was published 20 January 2022... I don't think Tolkien was still working on his conlang 3 days ago, so even if that trend applies universal to every human (or elf?) language in the world (and fiction) he wouldn't have known to incorporate that into his conlang in time before he published it.

Yes, but as a linguist acquainted with many different languages he would at least have been aware of similar words in languages he was familiar with, and may well have consciously noticed the pattern (in at least those languages). IDK when an observation of the pattern (or some variant of it) for at least some subset of languages was first published.

I'm not a lingusit either, but I think it isn't unreasonable to assume the study of linguistics has advanced *a lot* since a century ago.

Plus why can't a linguist who knows trends about human languages decide to break those rules for their elvish conlang? It's like saying a biologist who writes a fantasy book isn't allowed to have a sentient four-legged species because "as a biologist, they'd be aware that humans in the real world are bipedal".

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

D, on 23 January 2022 - 08:31 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 23 January 2022 - 08:15 PM, said:

D, on 23 January 2022 - 07:56 PM, said:

Also, that study you're linking to was published 20 January 2022... I don't think Tolkien was still working on his conlang 3 days ago, so even if that trend applies universal to every human (or elf?) language in the world (and fiction) he wouldn't have known to incorporate that into his conlang in time before he published it.

Yes, but as a linguist acquainted with many different languages he would at least have been aware of similar words in languages he was familiar with, and may well have consciously noticed the pattern (in at least those languages). IDK when an observation of the pattern (or some variant of it) for at least some subset of languages was first published.

I'm not a lingusit either, but I think it isn't unreasonable to assume the study of linguistics has advanced *a lot* since a century ago.

Plus why can't a linguist who knows trends about human languages decide to break those rules for their elvish conlang? It's like saying a biologist who writes a fantasy book isn't allowed to have a sentient four-legged species because "as a biologist, they'd be aware that humans in the real world are bipedal".

From 1922 (Tolkien was born in 1892):

'According to Webster's Dictionary, our language has two forms of r. The first is known as trilled, rough or initial r, and according to some authorities it should be used only for platform or stage presentation.'

So he almost certainly would have been aware of an association between the trilled r and roughness, even in English.

https://www.google.c...tsec=frontcover

Sure, conscious awareness of these (or other) associations could make it easier to intentionally deviate from them, if he had wanted to.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 January 2022 - 09:52 PM

[Macros]

[Tsundoku]

[Malankazooie]

huh, that wood elf gal from those Hobbit movies is an anti-vaxxer. Weird days, these. Not sure, but that character was made up just for the movies and doesn't appear in any of Tolkien's official works, right?

[Macros]

Yeah non cannon to throw a love triangle into the mix

[Tsundoku]

Macros, on 28 January 2022 - 07:44 AM, said:

Yeah non cannon to throw a love triangle into the mix

An isosceles triangle?

[worry]

Character posters! Spoilered for size!

Spoiler

And also for the surprise that it's just their hands!

[Malankazooie]

Anyone want to have a go at placing names to each of them? I looked on the Rings of Power IMDB > Series Cast... there's no character names posted yet. :-(

Also, those acorns and berries cradled in the the hands on the 3rd row look very bountiful. What an age to be alive.

[Malankazooie]

Supposedly something going to be shown during the Superb Owl. A rumor though, but I wonder what it will be if true?

[QuickTidal]

AAAHHHHHHHH! First look photos!

Arondir (new character, Silvan elf)
 Arondir.jpg (38.81K)
Number of downloads: 0

Bronwyn (human, Healer, widow)
 Bronwyn.jpg (53.17K)
Number of downloads: 0

Bronwyn & Arondir (they share a sort of forbidden human/Elf love affair) Also, can I say how very much I ADORE this shot. It's bloody gorgeous.
 BronwynArondir.jpg (76.19K)
Number of downloads: 0

Disa (Dwarf Princess!) I'm so happy we get to see a female dawrf at last!
 Disa.jpg (63.67K)
Number of downloads: 0

Speaking of Dwarves...here's Durin IV
 Durin IV.jpg (44.2K)
Number of downloads: 0

Young Elrond (at this point he's a sort of statesman and architect in the city of Lindon)
 Elrond.jpg (66.79K)
Number of downloads: 0

Elrond and Galadriel reunite in Lindon
 elrondGalad.jpg (293.06K)
Number of downloads: 0

Galadriel (can I say how happy I am that we are seeing Galadriel during her pre-Healer/Preistess Amazon Warriror phase?!)
 Galadriel.jpg (35.42K)
Number of downloads: 0

Galadriel again, Morfydd Clarke looks GREAT as the character. If we can't have Cate Blanchett, this works for me.
 Galadriel2.png (1015.78K)
Number of downloads: 0

Halbrand (human character, brand new)
 Halbrand.jpg (46.09K)
Number of downloads: 0

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 February 2022 - 01:58 PM

[Tsundoku]

Some interesting stuff here.

https://editorial.ro...-amazon-series/

[QuickTidal]

I love that we will see the slow and inexorable corruption that Sauron (in guises like Annatar) bleeds into Middle Earth so long after Morgoth was defeated...

I don't think I've been this excited for a show in a long time!

And if Joseph Mawle is playing Sauron....ooh man!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 February 2022 - 02:30 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

The more I've thought about it, the more the choice of period is brilliant. The Second Age remains largely unwritten aside from the outline and major events (Numenor, forging of the Rings). Whilst rights to the Appendices means they can reference all those big events and key characters (Ar-Pharazon is cast! Downfall of Numenor confirmed!), they have so much scope for new stories and to show the wider realm of Middle Earth without constantly bumping into and ending up conflicting with existing canon.

Pictures are giving me similar vibes to the Wheel of Time ones in that everything looks a smidge too clean, but photoshoot stills are totally different from watching an episode. I'm very excited!

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 11 February 2022 - 03:04 PM, said:

The more I've thought about it, the more the choice of period is brilliant. The Second Age remains largely unwritten aside from the outline and major events (Numenor, forging of the Rings). Whilst rights to the Appendices means they can reference all those big events and key characters (Ar-Pharazon is cast! Downfall of Numenor confirmed!), they have so much scope for new stories and to show the wider realm of Middle Earth without constantly bumping into and ending up conflicting with existing canon.

Yes, very much agree!

Also, the fact that Howard Shore is scoring it...bliss.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Why does the female dwarf not have a beard??

[Macros]

Gotta get that nerd creeping on characters on, can't objectify the lady if you give her a beard surely?