[Macros]

Similar to how they set up the ring in LotR

This post has been edited by Macros: 14 January 2021 - 01:08 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

QuickTidal, on 13 January 2021 - 07:33 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 13 January 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

I absolutely adore the Akallabeth, so I'm particularly excited we're going to see Numenor.

Also I am here for getting to see the moment Celebrimbor realises it's all gone horribly wrong on screen.

YES!

Also, part of me wishes we would see older events like the Noldor crossing the Helcaraxe. We MIGHT see it in a sort of flashback opening with Melkor and Ungoliant crossing after destroying the Two Trees and what followed. If they show the "War of Wrath" as what opened the 2nd age, we might see Fingolfin leading his people across. I'm picturing an opening sequence and narration like Galadriel's in FOTR...which I mean, just get Cate Blanchett to read this one too...Galadriel was present at those events.

Yes yes yes yes yes all of this. The opening to Fellowship of the Ring by Blanchett is wonderful, and I'd love to see something similar explaining Valinor etc.

Macros, on 13 January 2021 - 08:49 PM, said:

NERDS!

[Malankazooie]

Will we get that deal where wounds bleed and create massive pits? And that dude who wants to wrestle everyone? Or is that too early?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Malankazooie, on 14 January 2021 - 03:24 PM, said:

Will we get that deal where wounds bleed and create massive pits? And that dude who wants to wrestle everyone? Or is that too early?

Only in flashback potentially, as too early.

[Malankazooie]

Been awhile since I read Tolkien or anything Tolkien adjacent. If I wanted to read the source material from which this show is based on, what should I read?

[Aptorian]

This is probably the right place to ask this question.

I haven't interested myself in Lord of the Rings since the early 00s but there's a question that always puzzled me.

During the books/movies, the last elves decide to get on a boat and sail somewhere. What's that about? The way I remember it, there was a kind of end of an age Elves moving on in a supernatural kind of aspect to it. Where did they go? Did they just sail across the pond and settle on Middle Earth America or did they portal into Elf Heaven?

[amphibian]

The elves went to the continent where the immortals live - a separate place where mortals mostly don't go at all because all the immortals decided to just leave the planet.

So this continent has everything the mortals have plus the extra good stuff and no mortals and is reachable only by boats that can leave the planet by magic.

[Aptorian]

Weird. I don't like it.

[Tiste Simeon]

Malankazooie, on 14 January 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Been awhile since I read Tolkien or anything Tolkien adjacent. If I wanted to read the source material from which this show is based on, what should I read?

Try the LOTR Memes subreddit.

[amphibian]

Aptorian, on 14 January 2021 - 09:18 PM, said:

Weird. I don't like it.

I hated it. The world gets made by the big god, sparsely populated by smaller gods and other immortals, then everything develops and almost all of the smaller gods + immortals decide they want to quit being in the neighborhood.

This bit always was a weird thing for me in terms of how I felt as a kid reading this and now stylistically as I know Tolkien was writing this series partly as a reaction to the humdrum crappiness and horrific elements of the First World War he experienced.

Erikson, among others, handled a bunch of extraneous divine beings with powers better by giving them better things to do that meandered in and out of the worlds of the mortals.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 14 January 2021 - 09:18 PM, said:

Weird. I don't like it.

I do like the part where the realms of the Elves would have already lost all their magic long, long ago except for the 3 Elven Rings, and destroying the One Ring made the Elven Rings lose their power so all the Elves' homes were going to start slowly dying after the events of the books. Gives them a good reason for why they're all in such a bad mood all the time... they know that defeating Sauron is also the end for their way of life.

But yeah, the cool kids immortal club across the ocean thing is bit wonky doo.

[QuickTidal]

The Valar didn’t leave Valinor forever without reason though. They made the world for the elves to live comfortably in, and once they did they retreated to be with Illuvatar and the music because their job was complete. Arda was never meant for them to live on...they only did so because they were young and curious in the first age.

That said, it’s worth noting that elves don’t die even when they leave middle earth to cross over to Valinor. According to the Valar, “death” was a gift only given to man, elves can be “killed”, but it just removes them to the Halls of Mandos (no relation) where they dwell until they decide to return to the living world. Which after hundreds of thousands of years of existence (Galadriel is like 300k by the time of the events of LOTR), can be tedious.

So technically the Valar gave the elves the gift of “returning to the undying lands” in place of their inability to die like men at the end of their lives. It’s kind of like “I know living forever fucking sucks...but you can leave and come to this place where there is no war or strife in place of dying forever....savvy?”

It’s also worth noting that Frodo and Bilbo getting to go to Valinor is a HUGE deal. No one but elves and gods had ever dwelled there, oh and in the post LOTR age Eventually Sam, Gimli, and Legolas go as well. So their actions during the war of the ring really made them worthy of the bounties of Valinor.

But since Frodo, Sam, And Bilbo are all mortal they would have still died eventually in Valinor.

And Gimli, being a Dwarf, would not fall into the same category, so I’ve always been curious about him in Valinor. Perhaps Aule himself came down to visit his creation?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 January 2021 - 11:53 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Also, the Valar only fully hide Valinor after events unfold (deliberate vagueness because said events will be covered in the series) - so it's more of a final measure to make sure nobody can get there who shouldn't.

[Malankazooie]

Elijah Wood's comment about calling it the Lord of the Rings.



It has really thrown me off personally, because I would like to read the material that the show is building its writing from. That's why I asked up thread about what books I should read. I've read The Silmarillion‎, but that was quite some time ago. Also, not sure if the show will dip into Unfinished Tales, which I've never read or some other books. I guess there could be some references to bits that were hinted at in LotR? The parts that hearken back to an older age, but is shrouded in the mists of time and are long faded legends?

[Macros]

It dips into huge piles of LotR money is what it dips into

[Morgoth]

Macros, on 16 February 2021 - 10:38 PM, said:

It dips into huge piles of LotR money is what it dips into

Surely Amazon would not chose a subpar artistic choice out of greed.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Malankazooie, on 16 February 2021 - 06:42 PM, said:

It has really thrown me off personally, because I would like to read the material that the show is building its writing from. That's why I asked up thread about what books I should read. I've read The Silmarillion‎, but that was quite some time ago. Also, not sure if the show will dip into Unfinished Tales, which I've never read or some other books. I guess there could be some references to bits that were hinted at in LotR? The parts that hearken back to an older age, but is shrouded in the mists of time and are long faded legends?

Just responding to the Unfinished Tales question - the book is split between stories of the First, Second and Third Ages of the Sun, and the Second Age is predominantly Numenor based. Consists of maps and descriptions of the island itself, notes on the line of the kings descendant from Elros, and one lengthier story Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife. That story is my favourite part of Unfinished Tales but I doubt the series will actually pick it up specifically as nobody else is featured except possibly by mention only, so I wouldn't say it's necessary to read it to enjoy the series. Worth it for pure enjoyment though.

The other Second Age material is thr History of Galadriel and Celeborn and of Amroth King of Lorien - also worth reading for enjoyment but hard to know if the series will cover much of it since they haven't confirmed who is actually involved. I'd suggest Galadriel and Celeborn are more likely to cameo if anything, as they are from way, way back into the Ages of the Trees.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 17 February 2021 - 10:10 AM

[Abyss]

WANDAVISION and THE MANDALORIAN have, arguably, demonstrated that a tv audience can appreciate a show done cleverly which acknowledges the source material while providing a story that doesn't demand the viewers know everything or even most of a thing, that came before.

On the other hand, THE HOBBIT trilogy. And that SHANNARA mess of a show. And whatever the fuck they did with the Goodkind books oh look my eyes are bleeding...

[Tsundoku]

Abyss, on 17 February 2021 - 09:35 PM, said:

And whatever the fuck they did with the Goodkind books oh look my eyes are bleeding...

It's Goodkind - you can't polish a turd.

[Malankazooie]

huh, not related to the upcoming series on Amazon, but I learned from a podcast that for the original movie trilogy, there was a different actor cast to play Aragorn. The actor, Stuart Townsend, played the Vampire Lestat in the movie Queen of the Damned. Don't know anything about him and have never seen Queen of the Damned. I guess he was fired just prior to start of filming of The Fellowship of the Ring and replaced by Viggo Mortensen. huh, never knew that until this week. Interesting how little tidbits like come to light.