[Blend]

Bubba, on 24 February 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

Blend, on 24 February 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

Bubba, on 24 February 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

Well.....fuck

Ideal scum response?

Unlike you I thought he was scum

What are you talking about? I thought Khell was scum from Day 1.

[Blend]

Gosh, you're all going to be very disappointed with me.

[Andorion]

Ok, so the entire point of my waiting almost 18 hours and still not voting was so that Khell could get what he wanted to say onthread.

That did not happen.

Mess' CF is RI, he could easily by symp, I really do not like how he hammered.

Sierg's vote seems premature as well.

[Mentalist]

Morning, people.

Just came back from the follow up with my doc, so only now heading to work.

Gonna be a hectic day, but I'll try to put some thoughts down later.

[bubba]

I'm here for a few hours.

[HoosierDaddy]

I'll mostly be back tonight. Going to be rocked at work after missing Thurs and Fri.

[Blend]

I'll be here on and off all day - I've got an exam tomorrow afternoon, and lots of reading to do before then!

[Path-Shaper]

The timer is unfrozen

It is day 4. 29 hours and 35 minutes left in the day.

7 Players still alive: (Ment, HD, Blend, Ando, SiergieJ, Mac, Bubba)
4 votes to lynch. 3 votes to go night.

Players not voted: (Ment, HD, Blend, Ando, SiergieJ, Mac, Bubba)

[Mentalist]

K, this was not a good day,

Quarter to 6. I'm leaving work to go to a work-related dinner. Then I gotta commute home and work on something for tomorrow morning.

If I'm not passing out by the time I'm done that, I'll try to smth mafia-related (in about 5-6 h from now).

Otherwise I'll be out till noon-ish tomorrow.

[Siergiej]

Don't everyone post at once, yo.

So, I wanted to check Mac because I haven't properly looked at him yet. But after a read, I'm leaning towards town. Mostly because one thing he did very early in the game:

Macros, on 20 February 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

had to go and do the time check but.

his post in the sign up thread about only wanting to lynch venge came after roles were distributed.
he was setting up to get a nice joke vote out on day one

Macros, on 20 February 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

gives him an easy out if a khell train actually develops and he flips town.

its thin, but it day one and it jumped straight at me *shrug*

I was going to vote you for your jokey HD vote and removal but you were killer last time out so you're second on my list at the minute

If Mac was scum, I think he would be playing this exact card right now. These posts give him an excellent platform to pursue Blend, especially that I expressed my willingness to vote Blend before, so that's another vote on a potential lynch day right off the bat. But Mac has kept moving further away from pegging Blend as scum, so as much as he may be wrong (and his initial reasoning might be right), I don't think he's what we're looking for.

Granted, there are two things that make me a bit wary of PI'ing Mac. This is the first:

Macros, on 21 February 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

morning.

Im going to say something massively contraversial.

I feel sorry for Khell, he can't do anything without being screamed at and jumped on, why? because he has the temerity to be a good player? to have the sheer gall to win some games as a killer? heaven forfend, the man played mafia! how dare he!

how often are we hamstrung by bad town play (myself very much included here) most times scum win because we fuck up.

Tatts says his logical vote is JPK, the says he wants to lynch khell just because. keep your grudges until you are a killer. and shoot them in the face.

Town play is trying to make logical moves to benefit us all. Not crying, B b b b but khells so sneaky he set me up for a fall one time he was a killer.
so the fuck what, if that's the case everyone here is probably candidate for a petty vengeance lynch. unless you are copping a direct correlation between a players actions in this game, and how they played in another game, the past is fucking irrelevant.

grow up and play the game

I know, I know. Emotions and gut are Mac's style. But this is a bit overboard even for him. This moral high ground just doesn't seem genuine.

The other thing is that at the beginning of this day he suggested he wants to vote Ment without a hint of reasoning behind that. Before that, the only indicators of Mac's interest in Ment was this:

Macros, on 21 February 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

I would consider a vote for Ment purely for the tatts/ sergjie mix up.

and this:

Macros, on 21 February 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

oh, now there is a bold claim of a post, excellent memory to catch that ment.

However, macros wifom incoming, what if ment is a killer and is using this to get another cheap lynch
or khell is a synp and sacrificed himself to get an RI lynched yesterday

neither are by any means outside of the realms of possibility, and are probably mathematically not that far down the possibilities list either.

basically lets not all run to follow ment on this call

So, why the switch to Ment now, Mac?

[Siergiej]

Now, looking at HD. I was slightly suspicious of him before, but less than of Khell and Mess. With both of them out of the picture, HD moves to be my primary suspect, right alongside Blend. There's a lot of good catches in Khell's summary, so this will be rather quick (but lreferring to a lot of posts, so I'm linking instead of quoting). I haven't picked up much that Khell hasn't already commented on in his final posts.

Just look at the amount of hedging HD had done before placing his vote on Khell on D1. It's 7 posts of explaining how he doesn't really understand the train on Khell and then the eighth post in which he says HE STILL DOESN'T GET IT but votes anyway. Not gonna block-quote for better readability, here are the links:
https://forum.malaza...03#entry1274803
https://forum.malaza...19#entry1274819
https://forum.malaza...47#entry1274847
https://forum.malaza...51#entry1274851
https://forum.malaza...60#entry1274860
https://forum.malaza...06#entry1274906
https://forum.malaza...16#entry1274916 (vote here)

HD was trying to convince us he doesn't feel the 'case' on Khell really hard for someone who voted Khell anyway. And that was at 4v4, so it's not like it was the only possible lynch.

Of course if HD is scum he knew from the very beginning Khell would flip town, so he adds EVEN MORE hedging here and there:
https://forum.malaza...31#entry1275031
https://forum.malaza...70#entry1275070

You know what, that last one I'll actually quote:

HoosierDaddy, on 21 February 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 21 February 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 21 February 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Also, if my partner self-voted to put themselves at L-1 I'd be blowing them up in PMs to Path Shaper, lol.

Yes but look at what Blend just said about your possible cf, has you as PI. Just a thought but 3 votes went down on Khell quite quick after his vote of JPK and Bubba was the one to start that. If JPK comes back as scum, you'd be who I would look at first.

Fair enough.

But, in context, my vote still isn't really for Khell. It's more for alleviating the clusterfuck on thread.

Just admire the sheer audacity of saying 'my vote isn't really for Khell' WHEN YOU LITERALLY VOTED KHELL.

Since then, HD was pointing at me for 'setting up a lynch train' even tho we agreed as to who would be a good candidate for a lynch (Mess):

HoosierDaddy, on 23 February 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 23 February 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 23 February 2017 - 01:15 AM, said:

Macros, on 22 February 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

I'm going to follow bubba into a
Vote HD

reading through his posts, he didn't see the merit of the khell vote based on khell being khell.
his eventual rationale for it was to break up the intractable voters, and stuck there when the swing was heading JPKs way (pre self vote).

I dunno, there's something about it just read like, here's a reason for me to not be on JPKs train. as it was going to flip town.

come on down HD, the fence must hurt your ass

I've already discussed my reasoning once, Mac. I'm not on that fence. I came down and stayed off. My projections for today's behaviors from the main instigators of yesterdays' shit-storm was wrong, as things have calmed down. But, I was of the opinion that one of Blend or Khell had to go. It still seems to me like Blend can't be more than a symp, it's just too fucking weird of play as killer. So, I vote Khell. I mean, the case on JPQ was shit and if would have flipped to Blend I would have been much more tempted to come down off Khell. As it was, he was the only one of the two I considered needing to go up for lynch.

Following this train of thought... who should we vote now, in your opinion?

I already laid it down, Ment.

It's on (I"m going to fucking mispell it again) Seirgiej for an attempt to set up a future lynch train. After that it'd be Mess.

Have you voted yet?

Unsurprisingly, at a convenient moment he laid his vote on the Khell train. But of course not without some more hedging:

HoosierDaddy, on 23 February 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

Thank you for pedantically pointing that out. It is a GOOD reason, but it's not a GOOD ENOUGH reason to put someone at L -1 as we approach DDay. I'll gladly replace it if I need to.

tl;dr HD has a manner of placing votes and posting opinions that always have a sufficient amount of 'ifs' and 'buts' so he can claim innocence. Which is a scummy thing to do, because only scum knows ahead of time which votes/trains can come back to them.

[Siergiej]

Ment I was a bit suspicious of, but less so now. Admittedly, for very WIFOMic reasons: the NK pattern does not fit what I think Ment would do.

[Siergiej]

I've also already said that I'm willing to vote Blend because I cannot even begin to imagine he might actually be a townie. I think he's a symp (but not discounting a really ballsy killer) and this bit really caught my attention. Here, Blend tries to PI HD:

Blend, on 24 February 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 24 February 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

Another interesting Blend post, would like to know if he stands by these points, and elaboration on reasoning.

Blend, on 21 February 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 21 February 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Looking at the vote recap I have Bubba as a possible symp and JPK and HD possible partners.

JPK and HD? That is a WEIRD pairing.

If anything, I have HD down as PI.

I have you and Khell as partners, and Macros as symp.

I still am doubtful that HD is scum, though less so with each passing day. Thing is, he was one of the "Blend is playing stupid so I refuse to play along" people from Day 1. If it were scum, and Khell is, in fact, town, then it stands to reason that scum would be more likely to just let my ridiculousness pass as long as I wasn't pointing it at a scum partner. So I'm still fairly confident that HD is not scum.

I still think Khell is scum. Obviously Tatts wasn't his partner, and considering Macros brought the case on Khell into Day 3, I'm less certain about whether or not he's a symp. I think it's less likely now, unless, of course, Khell flips town and Macros is someone else's symp.

But in the next post, Ment points out it's a blatant lie (HD voted Khell on D1), so Blend stars backpedalling:

Blend, on 24 February 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 24 February 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

He said he was refusing to play along. But he DID vote khell.

Shit, you're right... Well, then, that definitely shunts him closer to the scum line for me... I still think that there are a couple of people that are more likely to be scum than HD though.

Sympage gone awry, perhaps?

So yeah, symp hunting is usually a bad idea, but:
1. If scum wins and Blend is a killer after all, I will melt the fuck down
2. Going into D-day without Blend is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you leave behind is a lot of noisy baggage.

So I'm between Blend and HD right now. If I have enough time tomorrow, will also take another look at Ando but it's going to be a busy day so it might not happen.

[HoosierDaddy]

I can't neccessarily stop someone for saying what they feel about me. But I'm tired of this same harping on the same shit Day 1. Every person brings it up: Do you think my reasoning has changed?

I viewed it as immovable object (Khell) versus unstoppable force, Blend and friends. I viewed EVERY action that didn't relieve that pressure as a waste of fucking time. Blend's still hanging around, the problem was as large as I thought it would be in the future, but Khell is now gone. Game has moved forward. If you like fighting the same fight every day that is your prerogative. I don't like Groundhog Day Mafia (unless it was a setting, that might be fun).

I've already stated, along with others, Blend is most likely symp. It's just to far bizarre a play style to be killer.

I don't place "ifs and buts to claim innocence", I explain my reasoning which generally includes "ifs and buts" because frankly when making statements I've been trained (as a lawyer) to not make black and white statements because it's a fantastic way to sound like an idiot. Most votes are couched in terms of "for now", "as of right now", etc. That's my play style, you are allowed to not like it and see it as scummy.

All I see from you right now is putting out a list of people you "might vote for", waiting for someone else to make the initial leap.

[HoosierDaddy]

That should read "wasn't as large as I thought it would be," but Blend went less crazy town and a supporter of his had been killed.

[Siergiej]

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

I can't neccessarily stop someone for saying what they feel about me. But I'm tired of this same harping on the same shit Day 1. Every person brings it up: Do you think my reasoning has changed?

Not at all. I just think it's very convenient for you to have a gazillion posts questioning Khell train, so you can deflect like you just did when people ask you about your Khell votes.

Off to bed.

[HoosierDaddy]

It boils down to the dichotomy. I wasn't blinkered, but I saw a distraction. Blend is at most a symp, as stated above. Khell's kind have been in a shit place since day one: between the two I went for the one I felt was more likely to be killer. Doesn't mean I don't understand the arguments being made. Being attacked "unfairly" is a shit place to be in. Not much you can do. Empathy does not equal apathy. It means empathy.

[HoosierDaddy]

Mac and Ment are the last two for me to go over. Both of them are old guard, slimy, and good at shunting things aside.

Will take a look.

[Mentalist]

I'm catching a few spare moments on the bus home.

I note both of you seem to have forgotten Bubba exists. I'm not sure that's wise at this point, I'll try to take a look at him as well.

Blend should probably be a last resort vote, because his play is too batshit insane to be killer. Of course, the wifom corollary is that "this could be exactly what he wants us to think", and I got burned by Mac by the same thing in our last M&P.

Sigh. I hope I'll have the time tomorrow to look at this.

[Mentalist]

Looking @ the timestamp, timeout is around 4 PM tomorrow, so no matter what I should be on by then.