[ContrarianMalazanReader]

Maark Abbott, on 24 February 2023 - 04:28 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 24 February 2023 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 05 February 2023 - 09:43 AM, said:

Just watched this yesterday, really enjoyed it, especially for some reason the vehicle design (I loved those bug helicopter things!)

I have read the book once or twice many years ago but don't remember a lot so have no issues around true to the book arguments.

I missed this post by you Tiste! So glad you enjoyed it.

Part II comes out in November I believe.

Oh, and something we've not talked a lot about...

The TV show started shooting in November (DUNE: SISTERHOOD on HBO Max; a prequel that details the beginnings of the Bene Gesserit order 10k years before DUNE....specifically Villenueve's DUNE, so I expect design similarities)...and the cast is pretty fucking STACKED.

Emily Watson - Valya Harkonnen
Shirley Henderson - Tula Harkonnen
Indira Varma - Empress Natalya
Sarah-Sofie Boussnina - Princess Ynez
Shalom Brune Franklin - Mikaela
Faoileann Cunningham - Sister Jen
Aoife Hinds - Sister Emeline (Ciran Hinds daughter!)
Chloe Lea - Lila
Travis Fimmel - Desmond Hart
Mark Strong - Emperor Javicco Corrino (Um... Mark Strong as the Emperor of the time? YES PLEASE)
Jade Anouka - Sister Theodosia
Chris Mason - Keiran Atreides
Josh Heuston - Constantine Corrino
Edward Davis - Harrow Harkonnen

Oh god they're adapting the Butlerian Jihad aren't they. It's already a write off due to that fact alone.

That adaptation is based on Brian Herbert's ideas, so I'll completely ignore that series.

[QuickTidal]

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 24 February 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

That adaptation is based on Brian Herbert's ideas, so I'll completely ignore that series.

The character names and setting alone mean it’s not a direct adaptation, and seems to be all in name…but go off again about this thing you hate I guess dude.

The knives people get out for Brian because he wrote things a little more pulpy and soapy and less cerebral than his dad borders on toxic.

[amphibian]

Brian Herbert and KJA were extremely bad writers of Dune. They didn't understand or care about the themes and actual history FH was working with.

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

QuickTidal, on 25 February 2023 - 12:19 AM, said:

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 24 February 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

That adaptation is based on Brian Herbert's ideas, so I'll completely ignore that series.

The character names and setting alone mean it's not a direct adaptation, and seems to be all in name…but go off again about this thing you hate I guess dude.

The knives people get out for Brian because he wrote things a little more pulpy and soapy and less cerebral than his dad borders on toxic.

I don't hate Brian Herbert at all. If he wants to milk his father's work for all its worth then go ahead, I'd do the exact same thing.

[Maark Abbott]

QuickTidal, on 25 February 2023 - 12:19 AM, said:

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 24 February 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

That adaptation is based on Brian Herbert's ideas, so I'll completely ignore that series.

The character names and setting alone mean it's not a direct adaptation, and seems to be all in name…but go off again about this thing you hate I guess dude.

The knives people get out for Brian because he wrote things a little more pulpy and soapy and less cerebral than his dad borders on toxic.

No, it's because the TBJ books were atrocious. The House prequels were decent, if not quite up there with the original six, but TBJ is one of the worst series I've ever read.

If - and it's a big if - this isn't a direct adaptation and the names being different means that they're trying to distance themselves from the TBJ books, then it might not suck baboon butt. But my hope is severely lacking in this respect.

[flea]

amphibian, on 25 February 2023 - 02:51 AM, said:

Brian Herbert and KJA were extremely bad writers of Dune. They didn't understand or care about the themes and actual history FH was working with.

Even the original series got worse.

One can argue that the source material for a new series being terrible is actually an advantage because there is so much room for improvement. I'm not hopeful, however.

[QuickTidal]

Well shit.

According to ComicBook, both director Jonah Renck and actress Shirley Henderson have exited DUNE: THE SISTERHOOOD following the departure of former showrunner Diane Ademu-John.

In light of these changes, “the series is now expected to undergo a hiatus” with some reports indicating the delay “could be up to seven months.”

Bad vibes. Renck was one of the reasons I was excited as a DUNE fan for this show..."Creative overhaul" sounds ominous and since this had already stared shooting...that's a yikes.

The remaining showrunner Alison Schapker has....um...some hinky ass credits....she supervised the last 3 seasons of ALIAS (you know....after the show went off the rails), some episodes of FRINGE in the last few seasons, and perhaps worst of all the Netflix ALTERED CARBON's second season...you know....the bad season?

This bodes ill for a production that's been shooting since November 2022...

Sigh. We can't have nice things.

[amphibian]

Altered Carbon's second season was one in which big budget cuts forced lots of improv in terms of writing/scenes and it didn't go well.

This is definitely bad news.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 01 March 2023 - 03:30 PM, said:

...The remaining showrunner Alison Schapker has....um...some hinky ass credits....she supervised the last 3 seasons of ALIAS (you know....after the show went off the rails), some episodes of FRINGE in the last few seasons, and perhaps worst of all the Netflix ALTERED CARBON's second season...you know....the bad season?...

The only way this CV could be worse is if it glowed green and could kill Superman.

[polishgenius]

Trailer, yo

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

Honestly if the word "Jihad" isn't uttered it will confirm Denis Villeneuve is a coward.

[Tsundoku]

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 04 May 2023 - 04:20 AM, said:

Honestly if the word "Jihad" isn't uttered it will confirm Denis Villeneuve is a coward.

They'll probably use a non denominational euphemism. Or the literal translation - "strive" or "struggle".

[Abyss]

Tsundoku, on 04 May 2023 - 09:54 AM, said:

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 04 May 2023 - 04:20 AM, said:

Honestly if the word "Jihad" isn't uttered it will confirm Denis Villeneuve is a coward.

They'll probably use a non denominational euphemism. Or the literal translation - "strive" or "struggle".

They could just use 'holy war', makes the same point w/out the awkward analogy.

[Cause]

Tsundoku, on 04 May 2023 - 09:54 AM, said:

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 04 May 2023 - 04:20 AM, said:

Honestly if the word "Jihad" isn't uttered it will confirm Denis Villeneuve is a coward.

They'll probably use a non denominational euphemism. Or the literal translation - "strive" or "struggle".

Unleashing the great 'struggle' upon the galaxy to wipe out the unbelievers lacks a certain something. Not sure if the word would really be so controversial in a completly fantastical setting. I see no reason to change it. Though I am also trying to think if the real world religious influences of Dune are actually ever important outside of window dressing as opposed to real plot points. The orange bible, the zen-Sunni mysticism etc, outside of the implciation thats its our wolrd in the far future does it ever really matter?


Not sure how I feel about Pugh as Irulan. Not sure why I feel the way I do but it seems like a casting mismatch.

[amphibian]

The real world Islamic, Arab, and North African history and influences are very important to the books. Herbert put a lot of work into getting them right (insofar as he was able back in the 50/60s).

People see it as simple window dressing because most put absolutely no work into understanding the history and culture of that region.

[polishgenius]

There are good reasons to change the wording. The word 'jihad' carries connotations to the average Western audience that it simply didn't when Herbert wrote the book. Can't really blame that on Villeneuve, or expect him to lead the charge on reversing that. Especially in this situation, where the Jihad is a violent revolution/invasion, so he'd be in the double bind of having some people associate his hero with anti-western violence on the one hand but others feeling it perpetuates an unfortunate stereotype that misrepresents Islam even though it has nothing to do with actual modern Islam.


Why would he take on all that baggage, when he can just use 'holy war' instead (which the first film did)? I know the first trailer for the first film used 'crusade' as well, can't remember if that made it into the film.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 04 May 2023 - 05:02 PM

[Abyss]

polishgenius, on 04 May 2023 - 05:02 PM, said:

There are good reasons to change the wording. The word 'jihad' carries connotations to the average Western audience that it simply didn't when Herbert wrote the book. Can't really blame that on Villeneuve, or expect him to lead the charge on reversing that. Especially in this situation, where the Jihad is a violent revolution/invasion, so he'd be in the double bind of having some people associate his hero with anti-western violence on the one hand but others feeling it perpetuates an unfortunate stereotype that misrepresents Islam even though it has nothing to do with actual modern Islam.


Why would he take on all that baggage, when he can just use 'holy war' instead (which the first film did)? I know the first trailer for the first film used 'crusade' as well, can't remember if that made it into the film.

Good point, and also, irony - 'crusade' would have the reverse effect, as far as the majority of the non book-reading audience would be concerned.

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

Another reason the 1984 adaptation wins out despite its flaws. They used the word Jihad like a Boss.

[QuickTidal]

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 05 May 2023 - 12:40 AM, said:

Another reason the 1984 adaptation wins out despite its flaws. They used the word Jihad like a Boss.

Imagine two whole and complete posts explaining to you the logistics of why a BUSINESS (in this case a film studio) would choose not to use a term that has (in the intervening years) become synonymous with both terrorism and poor and racist views of another culture (something a whole ass “news” network repeats ad nauseam to its viewers)…and not only not getting it…but doubling down on it with some bravado shit like “back in the 80’s or whenever I thought I was cool, “like a boss””

Dude….

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

QuickTidal, on 05 May 2023 - 01:17 AM, said:

ContrarianMalazanReader, on 05 May 2023 - 12:40 AM, said:

Another reason the 1984 adaptation wins out despite its flaws. They used the word Jihad like a Boss.

Imagine two whole and complete posts explaining to you the logistics of why a BUSINESS (in this case a film studio) would choose not to use a term that has (in the intervening years) become synonymous with both terrorism and poor and racist views of another culture (something a whole ass "news" network repeats ad nauseam to its viewers)…and not only not getting it…but doubling down on it with some bravado shit like "back in the 80's or whenever I thought I was cool, "like a boss""

Dude….

Sometimes you gotta be based.