[amphibian]

What backgrounds are the actors filling the principal roles from?

You've been all over me, pushing back on this specific thing while ignoring my points of how a deeply Maghreb/Pan African and Islamic story has a visual representation that is not only non-Islamic, there's vanishingly small Maghreb/Pan African representation in the major roles.

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

Another thing. Paul's reunion with Gurney marked the only time a book made me cry, and Patrick Stewart captured that emotion masterfully in the 1984 adaptation. Brolin's delivery feels flat.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 29 June 2023 - 05:15 PM, said:

What backgrounds are the actors filling the principal roles from?

Nothing that exists 20k years in humanities future. This is a silly attempt to codify fictional characters so far removed from current human culture that I can't fathom why you feel the need. Like in our own history as humans of barely a few thousand years of recorded history we have seen cultures rise and fall to dust that we can barely remember a thousand years later. The idea that those would be strictly the same makeup that far in our starfaring future beggars belief with the data we have at hand for social structures of humankind.

amphibian, on 29 June 2023 - 05:15 PM, said:

You've been all over me, pushing back on this specific thing while ignoring my points of how a deeply Maghreb/Pan African and Islamic story has a visual representation that is not only non-Islamic, there's vanishingly small Maghreb/Pan African representation in the major roles.

Because the "influences" Herbert used to construct his fictional version of our future does not mean that somehow he intended for those cultural touchstones to translate to the human characters of the age in which it's set. Basically any casting is free to be whatever it needs to be for DUNE since it's that far into humanities future that nothing of what the makeup of humans on earth currents is would feasibly remain in a humanity that was flung into the stars en masse.

I also listed the cast in our original convo about this and that it was diverse across multiple cast members...so you coming in and going "But what about THIS specific race/culture of actor?!"...just feels like a really weird stance to KEEP taking on that front when a new piece of media drops for the movie.

I'm also inclined to feel like when you are casting a guy to play the villain of a sci-fi piece that has broad Islamic notions and touchstones and his name is Saddam Shaddam, that casting a POC actor from that actual general region of the 2020's earth culture world be...at BEST problematic. But then it's the Ancient One/The Mandarin problem again...you either cast against that and avoid the idea that you're painting a stereotype, or you cast with the grain and lean into it causing yourself a pretty unending social media shitstorm about optics. It can't both, and quite frankly casting whiter than white Walken as a villain in a diverse movie like this side-steps all of that...and he's a great actor to boot. I fail to see the issue.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 29 June 2023 - 05:37 PM

[ContrarianMalazanReader]

The aesthetics of this movie are way closer to what I envision when reading Dune.

[Tsundoku]

Looks interesting.

[QuickTidal]

It's Snyder, so I'll watch. I also know that this is what he made when he pitched a SW film to Disney and they tried him down, so he made his own space fantasy.

I can see about half a dozen influences besides SW in that trailer too.

[Gorefest]

*scribbles* "Generic sci-fi flick". Check. Moving on.

[Slow Ben]

Delayed until 2024.

Welp…..


https://deadline.com...1235527300/amp/

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 24 August 2023 - 11:51 PM

[polishgenius]

I'm just hoping that Rebel Moon is better than Jupiter Ascending and Valerien. It looks less inventive than either, but that might be just the ticket tbh- a load of genre tropes shaped into an epic-yet-simple narrative that's structurally constrained by having originally been a franchise pitch but cut loose from the need to respect aspects of an existing mythos? Sounds like the perfect combination of factors to get the best out of Snyder, potentially. And being two movies could help it avoid some of the pitfalls of both those films, since both had among their many problems the issue that they just didn't have time to develop the settings properly.

Basically I think a Chronicles-of-Riddick-level funathon is a reasonable expectation and if it exceeds that, happy happy joy.

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 24 August 2023 - 11:51 PM, said:

Delayed until 2024.

Welp…..


https://deadline.com...1235527300/amp/

Honestly, after getting os horrendously, unforgivingly sick at a packed IMAX screening of OPPENHEIMER, I was not looking fwd to going back to the theatre so soon for DUNE....so this actually kind of pleases me?

polishgenius, on 25 August 2023 - 05:41 AM, said:

I'm just hoping that Rebel Moon is better than Jupiter Ascending and Valerien. It looks less inventive than either, but that might be just the ticket tbh- a load of genre tropes shaped into an epic-yet-simple narrative that's structurally constrained by having originally been a franchise pitch but cut loose from the need to respect aspects of an existing mythos? Sounds like the perfect combination of factors to get the best out of Snyder, potentially. And being two movies could help it avoid some of the pitfalls of both those films, since both had among their many problems the issue that they just didn't have time to develop the settings properly.

Basically I think a Chronicles-of-Riddick-level funathon is a reasonable expectation and if it exceeds that, happy happy joy.

Actually, I heard Snyder speak on REBEL MOON and it's coming from a place of honesty...he went to Disney with a pitch after they bought SW from Lucas and basically was like "I want to make a SW movie but with no recognizable characters, in a totally new era, with only a few touchtones to the overall universe"....which is something fucking EVEERYONE was asking for when the sequels started to come out....complaints by the media and the public that they need to leave the OT and the Skywalker in the past....well that's what he suggested and they told him no.

So he went off to write his own thing in that vein without the Star Wars touchstones...and he said "I know Lucas homaged/copied Kurosawa, so I wanted to do SEVEN SAMURAI in space"...

And frankly, I'm down. As long as he gets the tone right for that adventure, I'm down.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 August 2023 - 11:45 AM

[Tsundoku]

Wasn't Seven Samurai in space just Battle Beyond the Stars, and a few others whose titles don't readily come to mind?

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 25 August 2023 - 01:57 PM, said:

Wasn't Seven Samurai in space just Battle Beyond the Stars, and a few others whose titles don't readily come to mind?

Actually, the story in SEVEN SAMURAI is one of the most copied stories in all media, so it's not only been done in space...it's been done in space many times.

Like 80's movie about the local kids banding together to stop the rec centre from being torn down by the greedy developer? SEVEN SAMURAI.

I just like the fact that the well that Snyder decided to go into for his version of SW is the same one that Lucas went into for SW.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 25 August 2023 - 11:45 AM, said:

he went to Disney with a pitch after they bought SW from Lucas and basically was like "I want to make a SW movie but with no recognizable characters, in a totally new era, with only a few touchtones to the overall universe"

It's funny coz they now commission multiple projects like this- half the Star Wars Visions stories, the entire High Republic thing...


Still, I do think it's probably better for all concerned that Snyder is tapping into that energy without actually doing SW. I don't trust him on franchises. Even on films I think are really good, ie Watchmen and Man of Steel, I think he missed the point of the OGs. I think he probably is more suited to SW than either of those, but I'd still be worried about getting the 'good film, bad Star Wars film' effect.

That is definitely a subjective view though- there are clearly a lot of people who have similar thoughts about TLJ, whereas I mostly really liked that film for what it tried to do for SW.

Mind you, it is also a potentially sad irony that part of his pitch was evidently 'former Imperial turns on the Empire', which is Fynn's whole arc that they made nowhere near enough use of in the ST. I hope Snyder nails it.

[amphibian]

I've seen the movie. It's pretty good, yet "a deeply Maghreb/Pan African and Islamic story has a visual representation that is not only non-Islamic, there's vanishingly small Maghreb/Pan African representation in the major roles" still applies.

I thought the beauty and the odd techno-feudalism was well displayed. The acting was all pretty good. The depiction of the plan that Paul sees is a bit rushed and the impact of what he will do isn't shown enough with the 8 people collapsing of starvation scene that got replayed. Upon further considerations, compression of the timeline from years to maybe 7 months was a bad idea. It gives Chani and Jessica less time together, Alia no time, and makes it so the Fremen accept as their own two complete strangers in less than 6 months. That did a disservice to everyone. A cat and mouse game for years would have been better.

I also think the Emperor coming with the might of the Sardaukar should have been shown a bit more than occupying one sand plain outside one city. Have it encompass the entire planet and start attacks on sietchs - show us the risk the Fremen took with the decapitation strike.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 22 April 2024 - 06:28 PM

[Tsundoku]

Tsundoku, on 23 August 2023 - 10:52 AM, said:

Looks interesting.

Man, that aged badly. What a steaming pile of shite it was.
Yes, I'll watch Part 2: The Scargiver (a story about circumcision I'm sure), but only to see what happens.
And I'll watch it at x1.5 speed.

[champ]

Tsundoku, on 22 April 2024 - 09:22 AM, said:

Tsundoku, on 23 August 2023 - 10:52 AM, said:

Looks interesting.

Man, that aged badly. What a steaming pile of shite it was.
Yes, I'll watch Part 2: The Scargiver (a story about circumcision I'm sure), but only to see what happens.
And I'll watch it at x1.5 speed.

I sat and watched parts 1 & 2 yesterday...


I only ended up watching part 2 to see if it was as bad as part 1 and it was probably worse...

[amphibian]

Oh yeah, Snyder's movie part one was bad. I will see the second in maybe a month and likely think it's even worse.

[stone monkey]

Snyder strikes me as someone who can produce very striking visual imagery but who also, somewhat paradoxically, seems to have a very small imagination.

[Primateus]

I like it.

[Abyss]

champ, on 22 April 2024 - 10:03 AM, said:

Tsundoku, on 22 April 2024 - 09:22 AM, said:

Tsundoku, on 23 August 2023 - 10:52 AM, said:

Looks interesting.

Man, that aged badly. What a steaming pile of shite it was.
Yes, I'll watch Part 2: The Scargiver (a story about circumcision I'm sure), but only to see what happens.
And I'll watch it at x1.5 speed.

I sat and watched parts 1 & 2 yesterday...


I only ended up watching part 2 to see if it was as bad as part 1 and it was probably worse...

amphibian, on 22 April 2024 - 06:28 PM, said:

Oh yeah, Snyder's movie part one was bad. I will see the second in maybe a month and likely think it's even worse.

stone monkey, on 22 April 2024 - 08:20 PM, said:

Snyder strikes me as someone who can produce very striking visual imagery but who also, somewhat paradoxically, seems to have a very small imagination.

k the comments on this are so unformly awful that i'm (almost) tempted to (try to) watch it just to see the terribad.