[Andorion]

Esa1996, on 08 September 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Andorion, on 08 September 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

amphibian, on 07 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 September 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Why is Stark freaking out about hair colour? The Lannisters are all very blond. Blond is clearly a dominant gene there. In a marriage with a daek Robert a blond kid should not have been a surprise.

Blonde hair gene is recessive there as it is here in the real world.

Robert's dark hair "should" have come out over the Lannister blonde - which means the kids are "undoubtedly" Jaime + Cersei's.

As for Tywin butchering the deer, it's to show that he's very good at doing savage things himself in the service of a higher plan, which he's also good at making. Also, it showcases his lack of sensitivity towards his own.

What I don't get is why doesn't Tywin straight up take the throne? The king is dead, the Lannisters are the one with a huge army in the field. His allies hold the capital,....either be the king, or put Jaime on the throne. Why use Joffrey who is an idiot and needs to have his hand held?

Also, yesterday I decided that I need to get some good long-cord headphones for my PC. There is simnply no way I can watch GoT without them. There was that scene, when the two courtesans were 'training' with each other and Littlefingers was waxing eloquent about his love for Catelyn....if I want to hear the dialogue I need the volume at a decent level, only that brings up more,,,,, diverse sound effects as well.

The other Great Houses wouldn't like Tywin taking the throne as he has no claim to it. They would see it as another usurpation and might declare war against him.

How many great houses are we talking about exactly? As I see it they have already amde enemies of the Baratheons, the Starks and the Tullys, not to mention the Vale. So how many hoouses are still neutral? I am a bit hazy on the details of the politics.

[Esa1996]

Andorion, on 08 September 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Esa1996, on 08 September 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Andorion, on 08 September 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

amphibian, on 07 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 September 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Why is Stark freaking out about hair colour? The Lannisters are all very blond. Blond is clearly a dominant gene there. In a marriage with a daek Robert a blond kid should not have been a surprise.

Blonde hair gene is recessive there as it is here in the real world.

Robert's dark hair "should" have come out over the Lannister blonde - which means the kids are "undoubtedly" Jaime + Cersei's.

As for Tywin butchering the deer, it's to show that he's very good at doing savage things himself in the service of a higher plan, which he's also good at making. Also, it showcases his lack of sensitivity towards his own.

What I don't get is why doesn't Tywin straight up take the throne? The king is dead, the Lannisters are the one with a huge army in the field. His allies hold the capital,....either be the king, or put Jaime on the throne. Why use Joffrey who is an idiot and needs to have his hand held?

Also, yesterday I decided that I need to get some good long-cord headphones for my PC. There is simnply no way I can watch GoT without them. There was that scene, when the two courtesans were 'training' with each other and Littlefingers was waxing eloquent about his love for Catelyn....if I want to hear the dialogue I need the volume at a decent level, only that brings up more,,,,, diverse sound effects as well.

The other Great Houses wouldn't like Tywin taking the throne as he has no claim to it. They would see it as another usurpation and might declare war against him.

How many great houses are we talking about exactly? As I see it they have already amde enemies of the Baratheons, the Starks and the Tullys, not to mention the Vale. So how many hoouses are still neutral? I am a bit hazy on the details of the politics.

The Martells, the Tyrells and the Greyjoys.

[acesn8s]

Esa1996, on 08 September 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Andorion, on 08 September 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Esa1996, on 08 September 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Andorion, on 08 September 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

amphibian, on 07 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 September 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Why is Stark freaking out about hair colour? The Lannisters are all very blond. Blond is clearly a dominant gene there. In a marriage with a daek Robert a blond kid should not have been a surprise.

Blonde hair gene is recessive there as it is here in the real world.

Robert's dark hair "should" have come out over the Lannister blonde - which means the kids are "undoubtedly" Jaime + Cersei's.

As for Tywin butchering the deer, it's to show that he's very good at doing savage things himself in the service of a higher plan, which he's also good at making. Also, it showcases his lack of sensitivity towards his own.

What I don't get is why doesn't Tywin straight up take the throne? The king is dead, the Lannisters are the one with a huge army in the field. His allies hold the capital,....either be the king, or put Jaime on the throne. Why use Joffrey who is an idiot and needs to have his hand held?

Also, yesterday I decided that I need to get some good long-cord headphones for my PC. There is simnply no way I can watch GoT without them. There was that scene, when the two courtesans were 'training' with each other and Littlefingers was waxing eloquent about his love for Catelyn....if I want to hear the dialogue I need the volume at a decent level, only that brings up more,,,,, diverse sound effects as well.

The other Great Houses wouldn't like Tywin taking the throne as he has no claim to it. They would see it as another usurpation and might declare war against him.

How many great houses are we talking about exactly? As I see it they have already amde enemies of the Baratheons, the Starks and the Tullys, not to mention the Vale. So how many hoouses are still neutral? I am a bit hazy on the details of the politics.

The Martells, the Tyrells and the Greyjoys.

There are 8 great houses in Westeros:

• Arryn - The Vale
  
• Baratheon - Dragonstone
  
• Greyjoy - Iron Islands
  
• Lannister - Casterly Rock
  
• Martell - Dorne
  
• Stark - The North
  
• Tully - The Riverlands (Catelyn's family)
  
• Tyrell - Highgarden

Everyone pretty much got along. The Greyjoy's are troublemakers, but the Starks pretty much handed them their asses 10 - 15 years ago. The Lannister's are the richest due to the gold mines in their lands, but the Tully's and Tyrell's are no slouches in the money department and have a good reputation, unlike Tywin. The Martell's are the only great house that were never defeated by the Targaryens back in the day. So they have a fearsome reputation (and well deserved) and they hate the Lannisters.

So, if Tywin made a grab for the throne or if the lineage of Joff, Toman, and Mycella came out, most of the Great Houses would side against the Lannisters outright. Tywin is grandfather of the heirs, so the safe bet is to play it slow and strengthen his ties to the great houses by marrying his grandkids to other houses to consolidate his influence.

[Itwæs Nom]

acesn8s, on 08 September 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

There are 8 great houses in Westeros:

• Arryn - The Vale
• Baratheon - Dragonstone
• Greyjoy - Iron Islands
• Lannister - Casterly Rock
• Martell - Dorne
• Stark - The North
• Tully - The Riverlands (Catelyn's family)
• Tyrell - Highgarden

Well, Im not sure, but I think...
Baratheons primal territory is Stormlands
Lannisters is Westerlands (CR is just a castle/town)
Tyrells is Reach (Highgarden again castle/town)

This post has been edited by Charlie Nom: 08 September 2015 - 07:16 PM

[Esa1996]

Charlie Nom, on 08 September 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

acesn8s, on 08 September 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

There are 8 great houses in Westeros:

• Arryn - The Vale
• Baratheon - Dragonstone
• Greyjoy - Iron Islands
• Lannister - Casterly Rock
• Martell - Dorne
• Stark - The North
• Tully - The Riverlands (Catelyn's family)
• Tyrell - Highgarden

Well, Im not sure, but I think...
Baratheons primal territory is Stormlands
Lannisters is Westerlands (CR is just a castle/town)
Tyrells is Reach (Highgarden again castle/town)

This is correct.

North - Starks
Vale - Arryns
Riverlands - Tullys
Westerlands - Lannisters
Reach - Tyrells
Dorne - Martells
Stormlands - Baratheons
Crownlands - Who ever holds the throne. Formerly Targaryens, now Baratheons.
Dragonstone - Formerly Targaryens, now Baratheons.

This post has been edited by Esa1996: 08 September 2015 - 07:30 PM

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 07 September 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

4. Tywin Lannisters intro Why was he skinning and gutting a deer? Some kind of metaphor for Robert? I just wouldn't have thought that the head of house Lannister would have liked to get his hands dirty.

It is effective symbolism to show his character without devoting a lot of time to it. He is all business, cold blooded, and not afraid to get his hands dirty. There could be a little Baratheon symbolism in there as an easter egg, but mostly it is an effective way to convey a strong impression of him with limited screen time.

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 07 September 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Briar King, on 07 September 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

Stay away from that board till your done.

I plan to. Finish everything, then go and join in the general discussions there. They seem to be pretty careful about Spoilers though.

I forgot to mention one thing.

Why is Stark freaking out about hair colour? The Lannisters are all very blond. Blond is clearly a dominant gene there. In a marriage with a daek Robert a blond kid should not have been a surprise.

That is a bit of your answer about why the bastards are important now that you've gotten there ... Robert's bastards look like Robert.

As for dominant vs recessive, I think we can assume Westerosi have limited understanding of genes. But part of what that geneology book shows is that.

What Stark finds (clearer in the books) is that previous children of a Baratheon and a Lannister had black hair (the lines have married before , I forget when)

It was 90 years previous .... Tya Lannister and Gowen Baratheon ... black haired boy who died as an infant. Stark (and presumably Arryn) put that together with all the bastards having black hair.

I suppose this qualifies as a minor book spoiler (don't think the show showed the actual citation Stark finds). But since it is the same revelation and an implication you are meant to get I don't think is any harm in it.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 08 September 2015 - 10:00 PM

[Itwæs Nom]

Damn Nevyn, youre good.

[worry]

Depends how much he likes lamprey pie.

[Andorion]

In the show they just show Ned leafing through the book. There is very little clear information given. I have seen Episode 9 by the way. Episode 8-9 summary coming up soon.

[Andorion]

Season 1 Episode 8-9

Damn, damn, just...... damn.

Ok enough, lets do this properly. Keep calm..keep calm..



1. Jon Snow - Snow's storyline gets very interesting with foreshadowings (I think) of future complications. First Ice Zombies! Then a sword of Valyrian steel! and then damn there is a Targaryen on the wall! I wonder if anybody in Kings Landing remembers!

Quick question: Once a person has taken oath to the Nights Watch do they become ineligible for succession?

2. Daenerys - A rather dark turn. I did not think Drogo would get infected so badly from a rather small wound. Blood magic. The consequences of this will not be good. Daenerys' position and life hang by a thread. I am rather reminded of (Malazan Spoilers) the Barghast, Hetan and Tool in Dust of Dreams.

Question: I really did not see Daenerys as pregnant at all. I mean there was almost no physical change. I am finding that premature labour thing difficult to buy. How much time has passed since her marriage anyway? 4 months? Not more than that.

3. Tyrion - Tyrion continues to rock. Getting his own personal mercenary escort. But Tywin is a very very cold fish. What he did to Tyrion when he was young.... I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion had some very long term plans for Tywin.

4. Bran and wildling lady in WInterfell - I really feel for Bran. His entire world has come crashing down. He has lost his body, all his older family and guardians, and he is helpless to do anything. I have a bad feeling about this wildling woman.

Question: If she and her companions are wildlings, does their presence near WInterfell indicate how sloppy the Nights Watch has become? Also are her warnings about the North real?

5. Rob and Catelyn Stark - Rob's direwolf kicks ass, Just bite off his fingers. No problem. Rob shows promise as a leader, and even though the anticipated disaster against the Lannisters did not happen, I am still sceptical of his military future. They captured Jaime, which is very good, in terms of having an advantage, but they do have a history of frittering their advantages away. I just hope he doesn't do anything too stupid later.

6. Ned Stark: okaaay deep breath..... There are several aspects to this one.

First, what is Varys' game? I have him picked as pro-Targaryen, but why his visits to Ned Stark, why his attempts to get him to confess and have a chance of living?

Second, Joffrey shows his colours. I had a feeling he was not going to do what his mother told him. So Starks confession was in vain. I think the Lannisters amy have a bit more on their hands than they imagined. I really feel for Arya and Sansa. Sansa's plea for mercy was the first productivve thing she did, and it almost worked. Arya was just helpless. I wonder where her storyline is going from here.

Third, so Stark dies without imparting the knowledge of the incest and bastardy? Or did he include that in his letter to Stannis?

Fourth, was the sword used Stark's own greatsword from episode 1?



So thats that.... I think. damn what is it with Sean Bean dying all the time?

Question about the political situation now - From the point of view of common interests the Tullys, the Starks and the Baratheons should unite and ally now, but are the other Great houses likely to pitch in? Vale will remain neutral in Vale, so the Lannisters can at most get the support of three, but won't the Greyjoys hesitate due to Theon being with the Starks? That leaves the Martells and the Tyrells. That flower knight was a Tyrell and he wanted Renley as king. Sufficient reason for their being neutral or declaring against the Lannisters?

[amphibian]

A Night's Watch member supposedly gives up all ties and succession. They're not supposed to marry or interfere with the realm at all.

The strictness of this has been surprisingly well enforced over the long centuries and the noble exiles to the wall have mostly done well by their oaths. The wall is staffed by people more competent than the simple mental image off castoffs and dregs of society would imply.

I theorize this is because the unmanageable evil and stupid mostly manage to die instead of being shipped out there. The Mountain and a few others belie this theory, but it's holding up well even now.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 09 September 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

I ll answer one. Yes it was his own sword.

Ok, thats just.... damn

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 09 September 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

1. Jon Snow - Snow's storyline gets very interesting with foreshadowings (I think) of future complications. First Ice Zombies! Then a sword of Valyrian steel! and then damn there is a Targaryen on the wall! I wonder if anybody in Kings Landing remembers!

Quick question: Once a person has taken oath to the Nights Watch do they become ineligible for succession?

For all practical purposes, yes. They swear until death, and they swear to take no part in the politics of the realm. If they break their vows and desert, their life is forfeit.

Quote

Question: I really did not see Daenerys as pregnant at all. I mean there was almost no physical change. I am finding that premature labour thing difficult to buy. How much time has passed since her marriage anyway? 4 months? Not more than that.

Just go with it.

Quote

Question: If she and her companions are wildlings, does their presence near WInterfell indicate how sloppy the Nights Watch has become? Also are her warnings about the North real?

I would not say sloppy. Again, very few nights watch and lots of wall. They would notice any big people movements, but if a couple people making the climb by a closed tower?

Quote

Fourth, was the sword used Stark's own greatsword from episode 1?

Don't think that detail is mentioned in the show, but don't see any harm in saying yes.

Quote

So thats that.... I think. damn what is it with Sean Bean dying all the time?

I know, right?

Quote

Question about the political situation now - From the point of view of common interests the Tullys, the Starks and the Baratheons should unite and ally now, but are the other Great houses likely to pitch in? Vale will remain neutral in Vale, so the Lannisters can at most get the support of three, but won't the Greyjoys hesitate due to Theon being with the Starks? That leaves the Martells and the Tyrells. That flower knight was a Tyrell and he wanted Renley as king. Sufficient reason for their being neutral or declaring against the Lannisters?

WAFO

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 09 September 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

A Night's Watch member supposedly gives up all ties and succession. They're not supposed to marry or interfere with the realm at all.

The strictness of this has been surprisingly well enforced over the long centuries and the noble exiles to the wall have mostly done well by their oaths. The wall is staffed by people more competent than the simple mental image off castoffs and dregs of society would imply.

I theorize this is because the unmanageable evil and stupid mostly manage to die instead of being shipped out there. The Mountain and a few others belie this theory, but it's holding up well even now.

The Mountain? I thought he was a Knight? How is he part of the Nights Watch?

I must say given the scheming and ambitious nature of the nobility I find this interesting

[Andorion]

It seems in the Game of Thrones universe, Stupid and Honourable are interchangeable terms.

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 09 September 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

The Mountain? I thought he was a Knight? How is he part of the Nights Watch?

I must say given the scheming and ambitious nature of the nobility I find this interesting

The mountain is not in nights watch. Don't know exactly what he meant.

Quote

Game of Thrones universe, Stupid and Honourable are interchangeable terms.

I think that's a tad harsh. Honourable occasionally means employing bad tactics because you think its right. And there are no shortage of stupid, dishonourable people.

And if you think about it logically, if you were a big believer in honour, wouldn't you have a hard time anticipating the dishonourable actions of others? That would be like Derek Zoolander expecting people to turn left (spoiler).

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 09 September 2015 - 04:10 AM

[Andorion]

Nevyn, on 09 September 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Andorion, on 09 September 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

The Mountain? I thought he was a Knight? How is he part of the Nights Watch?

I must say given the scheming and ambitious nature of the nobility I find this interesting

The mountain is not in nights watch. Don't know exactly what he meant.

Quote

Game of Thrones universe, Stupid and Honourable are interchangeable terms.

I think that's a tad harsh. Honourable occasionally means employing bad tactics because you think its right. And there are no shortage of stupid, dishonourable people.

And if you think about it logically, if you were a big believer in honour, wouldn't you have a hard time anticipating the dishonourable actions of others? That would be like Derek Zoolander expecting people to turn left (spoiler).

I get your point but Stark was stupid. There was no other word for it. He just marche dup to Cersei and told her he knew? He assumed that she would retreat, (he underestimated her badly) and he did not want to harm a woman and a child - a decision which got him killed.

[Andorion]

Season 1, Episode 10.

WTF. Just that. WTF


All questions. Just so many questions

1. I have a bad feeling about the Nights Watch's expedition. Whatever is happening beyond the wall, it has to be on a pretty large scale, right?

2. Arya goes to the Wall, but how long does her guardian think her boy disguise is going to hold? He does understand basic biology, right? And once she reaches the wall she can't even run. her best hope seems to be to clear out somewhere in the middle.

3. Joffrey is a sadist. Why am I not surprised? What an awesome king. A spoilt brat sadist. This was Tywins big plan?

4. Is Cersei now sleeping with the younger Lannister boy, Roberts ex-page? How come the Lannisters rampant incest hasn't come back to bite them with a huge number of birth defects? I mean except Tyrion, whose dwarfism is probably attributed to this?

5. The High Maester/arch Maester.... whatever is way more spry than he looks. Is he one of those loyal to the throne, not the king chaps?

6. Was Sansa thinking of a murder-suicide?

7. So the big strategy of the Starks is secession? How is this going to win them allies? Any future king who agrees to the secession of the NOrth will look weak.

8. Daenerys........umm ok... so she now has dragons. Three dragons....baby dragons...but dragons.....ok....

But seriously has Daenerys gained any draconic powers? I ask because:

a. Her child was born with draconic features - scales, wings etc.
b. She is apparently fire-proof

If so, is this because of Targareyen blood and some hidden magical talent, or is this a fallout of the magic ritual attempted on Drogo?

Edit: Forgot to mention: Tywin seems to finally see some value in Tyrion. Hm. But reigning in Joffrey won't be easy. Is Tyrions girlfriend more than she seems? She seems to be a bit secretive about her past.

This post has been edited by Andorion: 09 September 2015 - 05:29 AM

[worry]

Seasons 2-5 (& books 2-5) take place on a different continent w/ different characters (think Midnight Tides), so you don't get any of your answers. That's why everyone is so mad about GRRM taking so long.