[Abyss]

I vaguely recall seven seasons is a magic number for syndication dollars, and after that most shows just aren't cost effective any longer.

The reality is they could skip virtually all of FEAST and DANCE without losing much from the story.

[Ceda Cicero]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 February 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

I really wasn't impressed with the last season but the trailers so far look pretty interesting - and I think I definitely want to see how they handle the main events of this season. Pleased to hear they're dropping the season build up format too, hopefully it will pick up a little for that. Most of my disappointment was that I didn't like the Red Wedding though.

I'm actually quite curious to hear why you were disappointed with the RW. That's literally the first time I think I've heard someone say that.

[Werthead]

Quote

I vaguely recall seven seasons is a magic number for syndication dollars, and after that most shows just aren't cost effective any longer.

Syndication is based on episodes; the magic number is usually around 100-104, allowing channels to show an episode a week every week for two years ad infinitum. That usually happens for network shows with 20+ episodes per season somewhere around Season 5. It appears that WB renewed Angel for a fifth season after a disappointing fourth season (ratings wise) purely so they could sell it as a lucrative syndication package, for example.

HBO doesn't sell it's shows into traditional syndication and of course have a lot fewer episodes per season, so it's not too much of an issue for them. Their longest-running shows are lucky to scrap into the 80-90 episode bracket, and GoT will only get 80 in total (unless they give them more eps for the final season).

[worry]

SATC and Curb are both syndicated as well, but I agree with you.

[Werthead]

First four episode titles for Season 4:

401: Two Swords
402: The Lion and the Rose
403: Breaker of Chains
404: Oathkeeper

That gives us a good idea of what's happening in each ep:

Spoiler

Jaime gets his sword in 401, the Purple Wedding is in 402 (written by GRRM), Daenerys captures Meereen in 403, or at least begins her attack there, and Brienne receives Oathkeeper and her mission in 404. That's a bit earlier than expected and indicates quite a lot of her AFFC storyline will be in the second half of Season 4.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Ceda Cicero, on 28 February 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 February 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

I really wasn't impressed with the last season but the trailers so far look pretty interesting - and I think I definitely want to see how they handle the main events of this season. Pleased to hear they're dropping the season build up format too, hopefully it will pick up a little for that. Most of my disappointment was that I didn't like the Red Wedding though.

I'm actually quite curious to hear why you were disappointed with the RW. That's literally the first time I think I've heard someone say that.

I really do think it's just me sometimes, and it probably is a purely personal preference.

The rest of that episode was lacking in pace so by the time it got to the RW I wasn't overly engaged any more, but the thing that really bugged me was that when they started playing the Rains of Castamere (and Michelle Fairley's reaction was wonderful) I expected the violence to start right at the end of the song. The fact that there was more dialogue in between the music ending and the first person getting stabbed (Robb's wife iirc) just leached away all the tension for me. I don't think it needed the explanatory dialogue of what was about to happen - viewers were introduced to the song in Blackwater in season 2, and Cersei explains its meaning to Margaery earlier on in season 3.

Having said that I'm a picky sod, so maybe that's why.

[Werthead]

So this place is showing up this season.

Spoiler

The CGI team this year looks like they've really improved and stepped up.

[Werthead]

Game of Thrones will be seven seasons long in total.

And yes, that makes the TV show overtaking the books all but inevitable.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 12 March 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Game of Thrones will be seven seasons long in total.

And yes, that makes the TV show overtaking the books all but inevitable.

I agree that the overtake is inevitable, but i see them waffling on the number of seasons, because money.

[Werthead]

I think the waffling is over, hence this announcement. Benioff and Weiss started off saying 8 or 9 seasons, probably an acknowledgement that 9 was a long shot but they wanted to aim high. They stopped saying 9 after Season 2, probably because HBO told them that was out of the question. Since then they've been saying 8. Now it's 7.

The break-point appears to be money. The Season 1 cast are under standard Hollywood contracts which are 6 years with a 1 year renewal option (for x percentage extra money). There's actually a law which prevents you from doing more than that (De Havillan's Law, dating from the 1950s to stop studios 'owning' stars for life) So you can get to seven without too much trouble. At 8 you need to renew your contracts on a year-by-year basis, so the cost goes up drastically, and then again for every season after that. That's how you end up with a situation like FRIENDS, where each of the six main castmembers was on $1 million per episode in the final season, which was unsustainable.

Given GoT's massive popularity, 8 seasons was still seen as possible, but clearly HBO have decided to keep it to 7. Amongst other things it simplifies their contact renegotiations with Benioff and Weiss themselves (who are only on 2-year contracts), as it means they can get them to sign for another three years now and that's it, rather than 2 now and 2 after Season 6, which would be even more expensive.

One thing I don't rule out is HBO pulling a SOPRANOS/BSG/BREAKING BAD on us, moving Season 7 to later in the year, filming more episodes, splitting it in two and giving us effectively two seasons. That would require a lot of things falling into place just so and would require the season being moved (the turn-around is far too tight otherwise), so I don't think it's likely. But they could do it if they decide the TV team need a few more episodes to bring the story home.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 12 March 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

I think the waffling is over.... But they could do it....

Exactly.


I hear what you're saying about contracts and i agree that's a live issue, but with a season per book (potentially two) and minimum seven books, TVland math can come up with more than a few ways
to make that profitable, even if it's just on the swing with blu-ray sales and syndication. Whatever Bravo and the rest are paying for the rerun rights, i'd bet they'll pay more, since they do care about advertiser dollars and a chunk of people don't get HBO but do want to watch GoT.

I just never underestimate the Power of Greed.

[blackzoid]

I always thought the TV show would overtake the books. I was perplexed at peoples protestations otherwise.
Never mind ADoS, I fully expect TWoW to only come out after the show is over, or maybe in the final season.
So lets just resign ourselves to that fact and let Martin work on the books in piece.

Cos the only way you can get those books out now ahead of the show is by putting someone like Erikson in charge. And even he has slowed down from his crazy schedule of the original Malazan sequence books. But then that would not be ASoFaI anymore at all really.

It will be fun looking at the show and not knowing what happens next.

[Abyss]

blackzoid, on 13 March 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

...It will be fun looking at the show and not knowing what happens next.

I take tremendous consolation in this, actually.

[amphibian]

I think we're getting the extra-big 7th season split into two, so it becomes 8 televised. There's going to be a ton of character movement/story wrap-ups to tackle and it makes sense to give the show more room to do it.

That gives GRRM some more time to get his books out.

[Ceda Cicero]

I try to maintain a sense of possibility, and Wert usually has some solid logic to give me hope either here or at Westeros, but I have trouble believing the books will ever get finished period, much less before the show overtakes them.

[Terez]

I have come to the point where I would be okay with that. I'm very happy with the show despite certain annoying differences from the books, but if there is no book I won't have to worry about that. I like GRRM's writing, but clearly writing is a struggle for him. That's not a bad thing; a lot of writers are slow and get even slower under pressure. I'd love to read it in his prose, but I won't feel like GRRM has failed me if he doesn't finish the books. He made a good story and has, already in a sense, passed it on to another medium which has impressed me so far. We'll lose some of our sense of superiority over showfans, but not all. The only thing I would worry about is that the show would change the ending so that it doesn't fit prophecies and foreshadowings, just so the book fans won't have any clue what's coming. But that would be taking it a little far and I'll assume they will satisfy themselves with the fact that we haven't read the actual story in advance.

[worry]

From http://www.avclub.co...ally-how-202064

Fortunately, he’s also sat down with Benioff and Weiss, who say they recently spent a whole, non-writing week with Martin in Santa Fe in which they attempted to pry the ending out of him. “If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it,” Benioff says. “And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.” And while Martin says he couldn’t get give them the details, at the very least “I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write,” adding, in a statement not exactly brimming with confidence, “I’m hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me.”

[Werthead]

Episode title update:

401: Two Swords
402: The Lion and the Rose
403: Breaker of Chains
404: Oathkeeper
405: First of His Name

GRRM's episode this year is the second one, which it is reported will spend about 50% of its time in a single location.

Spoiler

So, blatantly, the Purple Wedding, and a bit earlier than I think some people were expecting.

[Abyss]

worry, on 15 March 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

..., "I'm hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me."

Translation: "They're totally going to catch up with me, pass me, finish the tv series, do a spin-off featuring Arya running around knifing people, finish that, get tasked to do a tv series based on the WoT, finish that, then sign on for a tv series based on The Malazan Book of the Fallen but before they finish THAT i will totally be done with Dream of Spring, which may or may not be the last book in the series."

[Tapper]

Curious - GRRM might not have gotten the memo about the series being 7-8 years (not to mention, requesting the budget for a movie, which would probably involve contract re-negotiations)?

http://www.theguardi...artin-franchise