[Battalion]

Maybe these powerful actors think it's ok to make propersitions towards young actresses, because over half the old powerful actors in Hollywood are MARRIED to women half their age. These young women didn't fall in love with those old sleeze bags because of their looks or personalities. So if there is a culture amongst WOMEN in Hollywood to marry rich powerful old men, then it follows that there would be a culture amongst old men to at least try to woo themselves a young trophy bride. I'm not defending anybody who sexually abuses another human, or who harrases another person in a way that makes that person uncomfortable, but I am saying that there is relatable proven history of women who actually covert these advances (see footballer wives, rockstar wives, rich businessmen wives etc.) and while that is the case, these scum bags will continue to sleeze there way into women's knickers.

[polishgenius]

 Battalion, on 10 November 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

Maybe these powerful actors think it's ok to make propersitions towards young actresses, because over half the old powerful actors in Hollywood are MARRIED to women half their age. These young women didn't fall in love with those old sleeze bags because of their looks or personalities. So if there is a culture amongst WOMEN in Hollywood to marry rich powerful old men, then it follows that there would be a culture amongst old men to at least try to woo themselves a young trophy bride. I'm not defending anybody who sexually abuses another human, or who harrases another person in a way that makes that person uncomfortable, but I am saying that there is relatable proven history of women who actually covert these advances (see footballer wives, rockstar wives, rich businessmen wives etc.) and while that is the case, these scum bags will continue to sleeze there way into women's knickers.

There isn't a polite way to put this, so: Fuck. This. Attitude.


A rich older guy is quite welcome to have as many sexual encounters and relationships with younger women as he likes. If it's consensual. There should be no relation between that and predatory behaviour and the suggestion that the behaviours being reported here are in any way the fault of women is icky.

[Battalion]

I'm not blaming any victims.
But how does a millionaire find his very own gold-digger without first making some advances or asking the odd woman out on a date?

[Gust Hubb]

I would say that asking women on a date is not what these men have done.

[Cause]

 Malankazooie, on 09 November 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

If you really want to raise your gorge, Asia Argento has put together a spreadsheet of the accusations against Harvey Weinstein.

Warning, this material is quite upsetting: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

Way worse than I realized.

What horrifies me the most though, is ignoring the anonymous and unidentified complainants, over 11 women claim Harvey Weinstein raped them, some multiple times. These rapes occurred between 1980 and 2010, that's 3 decades. Throw in the sexual assaults and harassments and I therefore find it impossible to believe no one knew. I have heard it described that 'Harvey had a reputation for being Harvey'. Many people must have been morally compromised from this. Worse many people must have been legally compromised to cover this up. Harvey should not be the only person who goes down for this. He had help

I must applaud Rose McGowan for speaking out (my understanding is that she started all of this) but must also note that her rape occurred in 1997. So If I may be forgiven for a strange take on victim blaming I feel that many women in that list also helped cover it up. There are at least 2 NDA's mentioned in that list and at least 3 settlements. I imagine many more of which the details are unknown. There are 104 women in that list! Some didn't speak out, which is a sad and well documented statistic about these crimes but 104 women? They silenced themselves, were silenced by intimidation, were ignored or chose career or money over justice.

[Malankazooie]

 Cause, on 10 November 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

 Malankazooie, on 09 November 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

If you really want to raise your gorge, Asia Argento has put together a spreadsheet of the accusations against Harvey Weinstein.

Warning, this material is quite upsetting: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

Way worse than I realized.

What horrifies me the most though, is ignoring the anonymous and unidentified complainants, over 11 women claim Harvey Weinstein raped them, some multiple times. These rapes occurred between 1980 and 2010, that's 3 decades. Throw in the sexual assaults and harassments and I therefore find it impossible to believe no one knew. I have heard it described that 'Harvey had a reputation for being Harvey'. Many people must have been morally compromised from this. Worse many people must have been legally compromised to cover this up. Harvey should not be the only person who goes down for this. He had help

I must applaud Rose McGowan for speaking out (my understanding is that she started all of this) but must also note that her rape occurred in 1997. So If I may be forgiven for a strange take on victim blaming I feel that many women in that list also helped cover it up. There are at least 2 NDA's mentioned in that list and at least 3 settlements. I imagine many more of which the details are unknown. There are 104 women in that list! Some didn't speak out, which is a sad and well documented statistic about these crimes but 104 women? They silenced themselves, were silenced by intimidation, were ignored or chose career or money over justice.

Matt Damon and Ben Affleck knew. Seth MacFarlane made jokes about Weinstein's "behavior" at an awards show (Oscars?) a few years ago. I'm sure there are many more in the business (actors, producers, directors, agents, etc.) who knew about Weinstein. They've justified their cowardice about not saying anything because they did not want to put any women in the spotlight by naming them if they were not ready for it or didn't want the attention that comes with it. Well, you don't have to name names to bring attention to someone who is a serial sex offender. They all are a bunch of cowards and were more worried about their jobs then doing what was right.

[Cause]

 Malankazooie, on 10 November 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Matt Damon and Ben Affleck knew. Seth MacFarlane made jokes about Weinstein's "behavior" at an awards show (Oscars?) a few years ago. I'm sure there are many more in the business (actors, producers, directors, agents, etc.) who knew about Weinstein. They've justified their cowardice about not saying anything because they did not want to put any women in the spotlight by naming them if they were not ready for it or didn't want the attention that comes with it. Well, you don't have to name names to bring attention to someone who is a serial sex offender. They all are a bunch of cowards and were more worried about their jobs then doing what was right.

Interetsing, Ill try google what they have said. Does anyone know. Do people have a legal duty to report crimes they are aware of to the police?

[Una]

 Cause, on 10 November 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Interetsing, Ill try google what they have said. Does anyone know. Do people have a legal duty to report crimes they are aware of to the police?

As far as I am aware, only if the crime is child abuse, and even that is going to depend on where you live.

I only did ER work in training, but every time someone came in for sexual assault, the procedure is to offer a rape kit and offer to call the cops.On my end, it would often take a lot of convincing to get the patient to let us call the cops. And even when they did come, they would usually just take a statement and on their way out, shake their heads and say, "She doesn't want to press charges." And for what it's worth, you could tell they were every bit as frustrated as we were, but we are duty bound to honour the patient's wishes, so that was that. You can report it all you like, but if she doesn't want to press charges, it will not go anywhere, from a practical standpoint.

[QuickTidal]

 Malankazooie, on 10 November 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

They've justified their cowardice about not saying anything because they did not want to put any women in the spotlight by naming them if they were not ready for it or didn't want the attention that comes with it.

Except Brad Pitt...who did do what he could...

Gwyneth's experience with Weinstein after she was hired to be in EMMA, he harassed her. Brad Pitt knew what happened, and Gwyneth didn't want him to say anything. The most he was allowed to do was threaten Harvey at a hollywood party, poked him in the chest and told him it would never happen again and that there would be "Missouri-style" consequences if he did. Apparently Harvey tried to explain, and then got silent and listened...and it never happened again with Gwyneth as a result. From what I understand he's the only man who knew about it that did anything at all. And the only reason it didn't get further blown open was that Gwyneth didn't want it to be at the time.

I kind of wish that Brad had given Harvey a Missouri-style whuppin'...I'd pay to see that.

[QuickTidal]

CK admitted it in a statement...which everyone is calling an "apology"....but if you scrutinize the statement he never actually says "I'm sorry" in it.

which is really weird. Cause why craft this long statement of contrition and admittance....and not actually do the one thing you should and say you're sorry?

So strange.

Otherwise, the statement is fine I guess.

It doesn't make him better as a person...but at least he didn't deny it anymore like he's been doing for years and years...which makes him broadly better than some of those that have been accused.

[Gorefest]

 Cause, on 10 November 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Interetsing, Ill try google what they have said. Does anyone know. Do people have a legal duty to report crimes they are aware of to the police?

Seth MacFarlane made a joke at the 2013 Oscar ceremony when he was reading out the nominations for best supporting actress, saying something along the lines of 'congrats, you five nominees dont need to pretend anymore to be attracted to Weinstein.' It was after he had been told by a female colleague in confidence about Weinstein's sexual harrassment towards her. It is about as outspoken as anyone in Holywood dared to get, sadly enough.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 10 November 2017 - 07:10 PM

[worry]

 QuickTidal, on 10 November 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

CK admitted it in a statement...which everyone is calling an "apology"....but if you scrutinize the statement he never actually says "I'm sorry" in it.

which is really weird. Cause why craft this long statement of contrition and admittance....and not actually do the one thing you should and say you're sorry?

So strange.

Otherwise, the statement is fine I guess.

It doesn't make him better as a person...but at least he didn't deny it anymore like he's been doing for years and years...which makes him broadly better than some of those that have been accused.

Just mentioned it in the TV thread. Statement made me ill for reasons I can't yet put my finger on. Even though it doesn't do the usual fake-apology phrasing thing, it does other really self-indulgent things that are just as bad.

[QuickTidal]

 worry, on 10 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 10 November 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

CK admitted it in a statement...which everyone is calling an "apology"....but if you scrutinize the statement he never actually says "I'm sorry" in it.

which is really weird. Cause why craft this long statement of contrition and admittance....and not actually do the one thing you should and say you're sorry?

So strange.

Otherwise, the statement is fine I guess.

It doesn't make him better as a person...but at least he didn't deny it anymore like he's been doing for years and years...which makes him broadly better than some of those that have been accused.

Just mentioned it in the TV thread. Statement made me ill for reasons I can't yet put my finger on. Even though it doesn't do the usual fake-apology phrasing thing, it does other really self-indulgent things that are just as bad.

Yeah the talk about "admiring him" and "admiration" he used to his advantage....is really self-serving pablum.

On the surface it seems like a fine and contrite admission...but if you dig even slightly it becomes pretty rough.

[worry]

Not Gold Diggers = 99.99% of acquisitiveness, no matter how steeped in greed, including but not limited to: landlords, investors, bankers, industrialists, the CEO of Uber, careerists in general, entertainers and athletes, robber barons, entrepreneurs who insist on sub-poverty wages, businessmen with gold toilets, literal gold mine owners.

Gold Diggers = women who include financial security as a factor when entering a romantic relationship.

[Primateus]

Ahem, carry on!

[D'rek]

Yeah, I'm thinking we should split this thread? An ongoing discussion of sexual assault and misconduct in Hollywood is pretty far from the original topic, no?

[Macros]

Hmmmm.

At the minute it had just devolved into posting who has been caught but I think it sort of holds with the OP a little, it was originally a concern with drunken shenanigans and what constitutes consent and the like. It's not much of a derail to be discussing harassment and non consentual acts.
The thread had been basically dead anyway (and had momentarily taken a nosedive into the black hole of bullshit/braggery I feared it would) so I'd leave it as is

[worry]

On the other hand, drawing a line between sex and abuse of a sexual nature is worthwhile. I was initially against a separate thread because I didn't realize the conversation would go on this long when Apt originally thought about making one. I'll trust the mods' discretion either way.

Meanwhile, on a note other than listing public figure revelations, Yashar Ali has been posting anonymous #MeToo-style messages he's been getting and they're harrowing. For some people, there's catharsis in sharing, but this also comes with a big trigger warning: https://twitter.com/...210573765660672

And a short personal essay by Ijeoma Oluo on, among other things, the fact that nobody seems to have all the answers, but that it doesn't mean there are no answers, and men in particular need to step up: https://theestablish...do-a9e48b040d08

[polishgenius]

 Battalion, on 10 November 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

I'm not blaming any victims.
But how does a millionaire find his very own gold-digger without first making some advances or asking the odd woman out on a date?

Like Gust Hubb said, we're not talking about asking women out on dates or 'making advances'. We're talking about predatory behaviour, unwanted touching and grabbing, and sexual harrassment. If you can't do the first bit without doing the second you have a problem.



On Louis CK- I don't know if the apology is sincere or not, but we certainly shouldn't be holding him up as a hero for it. He's done it, he's apparently recognised at least what contrition is (unlike some of the others), but he's still got work to do.




George Takei is next up, accused of molesting and perhaps of Bill Cosbying a guy in the 80s.

[Tsundoku]

 polishgenius, on 11 November 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

George Takei is next up, accused of molesting and perhaps of Bill Cosbying a guy in the 80s.

http://www.news.com....e20b15cc95b22c1

George Takei? Man - when will it end? WILL it end? Who defines and decides the end? Urgh my head hurts.

People have been expressing alarm at our lives becoming more isolated and possibly turning to robots etc. I think it's going to be an evolution borne out of self-preservation. For everyone.

Think of it - no victims, no perpetrators. Of course, according to Futurama the human race will die off. But oh well, omelettes and eggs and all that.

Of course, further down the line we'll probably get true AI and the whole consent thing will come up again.

We could start some sort of Dead Pool to bet on who will be accused next.

If we thought the politics of sex in the western world were getting dicey enough already, where is all this stuff at the moment going to take us? Is there gong to be an anti-Sexual revolution? "No Ma'am" becomes a genuine organisation? A new Puritanism as a reaction? McCarthyism for the 21st century? Can anyone see a new sort of courtship dynamic coming into play here? Genuine questions, not shit-stirring btw.