Help
Add Reply
"No, you're not wrong, Walter. You're just an *******!"
--The Dude
Actually, you are wrong, and I guess you aren't an *******. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that George R.R. Martin is going to pull through. The time he takes does not worry me--not in the least.
Don't look for a reason for things to be bad, or they will be.
------------------------------
"Did I offend you?" Lannister said. "Sorry. Dwarfs don't have to be tactful. Generations of capering fools in motely have won me the right to dress badly and say any damn thing that comes into my head." He grinned.
George RR Martin
Rate Topic:
MultiQuote#462 Guest_Varys_*
Posted 25 February 2003 - 05:27 PM
Hi everyone, first post.
At a recent conference the man said he has finished all the parts except the Wall so it shouldn't take too long. And if it does, so what? Stephen King has taken over twenty years to write his series and I'm still waiting patiently
It *is* an extremely complex book. He has to include all the major storylines and follow them over the course of five years, whilst at the same time telling it in an entertaining and thrilling manner.
I think the problem at the moment (both with Erikson and Martin fans) is that they see them as competitors whereas if you take a step back you can see that they are quite clearly complimenters (is that a word??).
Erikson creates a huge world steeped in vast history and wonderful races. It really is mind boggling. The histories of the Jaghut and the T'Lan Imass, all the Gods and their ascendents, the Warrens, the huge continents, the cities background and histories. I don't think I've read a series with a greater and more rich world. However, Erikson is not perfect, Though he creates a tremendous world I find the charcaters he populates it with a bit...bland. Martin succeeds in making fantastic characters that really leap out of the pages. I can put a face with almost every ASOIAF character and know exactly what they've done. With Erikson I kept mixing up Rallick and Crokus in GOTM, and I never even realised Quick Ben was black until someone pointed it out to me. And why doesn't Erikson spend longer describing faces? All I know is that Paran was tall, Whskeyjack had a bear...er, Kruppe is fat...hmm. With maybe the exception of Quick Ben (the man!) and Kruppe (hey - what can I say?) no one reaches the complexities of Tyrion, the Machiavellian cunning of Littlefinger, the iron resolve of Stannis, the black humour of Dolorous Edd, the fatal honour of Ned, the tragedy of Theon, the sorrow of Cat, the descent into madness of Arya, the mystery of Varys, etc, etc. Really the list is bottomless.
Martin is the King of characterisation, and Erikson is the King of world building. They both sit the throne side by side with Jordan washing their boots (actually, on second thought he wasn't invited - and his wife wouldn't let him out anyway (she's got him chained to the wall in a gimp costume or something)).
I'll never undertsand the need to pick one over the other. Seriously, how many of us have only one book series on their shelf? I've got dozens, and I can say with the exception of the Lord Of The Rings, Martin and Erikson are head and shoulders above the rest.
The road to heaven is paved with bad intentions.
At a recent conference the man said he has finished all the parts except the Wall so it shouldn't take too long. And if it does, so what? Stephen King has taken over twenty years to write his series and I'm still waiting patiently
It *is* an extremely complex book. He has to include all the major storylines and follow them over the course of five years, whilst at the same time telling it in an entertaining and thrilling manner.I think the problem at the moment (both with Erikson and Martin fans) is that they see them as competitors whereas if you take a step back you can see that they are quite clearly complimenters (is that a word??).
Erikson creates a huge world steeped in vast history and wonderful races. It really is mind boggling. The histories of the Jaghut and the T'Lan Imass, all the Gods and their ascendents, the Warrens, the huge continents, the cities background and histories. I don't think I've read a series with a greater and more rich world. However, Erikson is not perfect, Though he creates a tremendous world I find the charcaters he populates it with a bit...bland. Martin succeeds in making fantastic characters that really leap out of the pages. I can put a face with almost every ASOIAF character and know exactly what they've done. With Erikson I kept mixing up Rallick and Crokus in GOTM, and I never even realised Quick Ben was black until someone pointed it out to me. And why doesn't Erikson spend longer describing faces? All I know is that Paran was tall, Whskeyjack had a bear...er, Kruppe is fat...hmm. With maybe the exception of Quick Ben (the man!) and Kruppe (hey - what can I say?) no one reaches the complexities of Tyrion, the Machiavellian cunning of Littlefinger, the iron resolve of Stannis, the black humour of Dolorous Edd, the fatal honour of Ned, the tragedy of Theon, the sorrow of Cat, the descent into madness of Arya, the mystery of Varys, etc, etc. Really the list is bottomless.
Martin is the King of characterisation, and Erikson is the King of world building. They both sit the throne side by side with Jordan washing their boots (actually, on second thought he wasn't invited - and his wife wouldn't let him out anyway (she's got him chained to the wall in a gimp costume or something)).
I'll never undertsand the need to pick one over the other. Seriously, how many of us have only one book series on their shelf? I've got dozens, and I can say with the exception of the Lord Of The Rings, Martin and Erikson are head and shoulders above the rest.
The road to heaven is paved with bad intentions.
#463 Guest_Buck Tooth_*
Posted 12 March 2003 - 01:00 PM
I never quite got on with GRRM. I thought the first 2 books were cool but I gave up 1/2 way thru the third. For some reason the whole thing seemed to be stuck in a rut, but after listening to you lot talk maybe I should try again.
'...time before time, before the fall and the schism, morningstar was free.'
'...time before time, before the fall and the schism, morningstar was free.'
#464
drosdelnoch 
- Lieutenant
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 122
- Joined: 03-September 02
Posted 09 January 2004 - 06:20 PM
But the point of this discussion is the fact that hes taking so long. Most authors limit the ammount of appearances until they finish a book and then do a tour.
If he limited the amount of engagements that he did then he'd have more time to finish the novel off, after all theres nothing worse than being in midstride of writing something then have to cut off to get to a venue, as it then takes forever to get back into the flow of where you were.
Im not saying that he doesnt care for the art and the quality of what he does release is high just getting a little tired of having to wait so long as Im holding off reading Book 3 part one and two until the official release date is known so that I can get back into the flow completely, I hate being left on tender hooks. If its this bad for me how bad is it for people who are three years down the line. lol
----------------------------
Pick a window, your leaving!
If he limited the amount of engagements that he did then he'd have more time to finish the novel off, after all theres nothing worse than being in midstride of writing something then have to cut off to get to a venue, as it then takes forever to get back into the flow of where you were.
Im not saying that he doesnt care for the art and the quality of what he does release is high just getting a little tired of having to wait so long as Im holding off reading Book 3 part one and two until the official release date is known so that I can get back into the flow completely, I hate being left on tender hooks. If its this bad for me how bad is it for people who are three years down the line. lol
----------------------------
Pick a window, your leaving!
#465
BridgeBurner
- High Fist
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 417
- Joined: 02-February 03
- Location:The Netherlands
Posted 21 February 2003 - 10:08 AM
GRRM intended to write the series in 6 books, and the main plotlines of his story are already in place. "A Feast for Crows" was not planned: instead his intention was to put a 5 year gap between "A Storm of Swords" and the next book.
But he changed his mind, and thought he had to cover this 5 year gap in an extra book, because important stuff would happen in it. He also decided to rewrite (the most part of) it, which is why it will take longer.
For the books after "A Feast for Crows", the bigger part of the plot is mostly laid out already, so it will not take him as long. The problem he is currently facing is how to write the plot of the first 3 books towards the plot of the last 3 books.
So the difference between GRRM and RJ in this case is, that RJ is writing towards the last SCENE of his story, and GRRM is writing towards the last HALF of his story.
"First in, last out."
But he changed his mind, and thought he had to cover this 5 year gap in an extra book, because important stuff would happen in it. He also decided to rewrite (the most part of) it, which is why it will take longer.
For the books after "A Feast for Crows", the bigger part of the plot is mostly laid out already, so it will not take him as long. The problem he is currently facing is how to write the plot of the first 3 books towards the plot of the last 3 books.
So the difference between GRRM and RJ in this case is, that RJ is writing towards the last SCENE of his story, and GRRM is writing towards the last HALF of his story.
"First in, last out."
#466 Guest_The Shadowlord_*
Posted 22 January 2003 - 09:21 AM
because he is a good writer.
Simple, and straight to the point.
Simple, and straight to the point.
#467
Gothos
- Map painting expert
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 5,428
- Joined: 01-January 03
- Location:.pl
Posted 07 February 2003 - 12:52 AM
well, I just hope he will actually write them all...
----------------------------------------
It doesn't matter who kills us. What matters is that you do.
----------------------------------------
It doesn't matter who kills us. What matters is that you do.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
#468 Guest_Zifnab_*
Posted 13 January 2003 - 05:41 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by voland:
just to clarify: Maege Mormont is not a new PoV. The whole thing with her being a traitor and the new PoV was a scam made up by members (Lannister, Dirjj, and some others) who were at Worldcon this fall. A pretty good scam, it fooled a lot of members, but they owed up to it a few days later.QUOTE]
argghh! so who's the new PoV?
and just when is the 4th book to be released?
and what will do tyrion?
and will we see jaqen hagar again?
and will bran become powerful?
and what will happen to arya?
so many questions, no answers...
uh, right, I didn't understand anything but I do agree with you
just to clarify: Maege Mormont is not a new PoV. The whole thing with her being a traitor and the new PoV was a scam made up by members (Lannister, Dirjj, and some others) who were at Worldcon this fall. A pretty good scam, it fooled a lot of members, but they owed up to it a few days later.QUOTE]
argghh! so who's the new PoV?
and just when is the 4th book to be released?
and what will do tyrion?
and will we see jaqen hagar again?
and will bran become powerful?
and what will happen to arya?
so many questions, no answers...
uh, right, I didn't understand anything but I do agree with you
#469 Guest_Izz_*
Posted 21 March 2004 - 08:06 AM
Please! Who doesn't show off their toy soldier collection on their personal webpage??
------------------------------
"Did I offend you?" Lannister said. "Sorry. Dwarfs don't have to be tactful. Generations of capering fools in motely have won me the right to dress badly and say any damn thing that comes into my head." He grinned.
------------------------------
"Did I offend you?" Lannister said. "Sorry. Dwarfs don't have to be tactful. Generations of capering fools in motely have won me the right to dress badly and say any damn thing that comes into my head." He grinned.
#470 Guest_Steve_*
Posted 07 July 2003 - 10:28 AM
Hmm, Falco, most of those people probably aren't recognisable if you read only the two books a while ago. But I'd highly recommend you read book 3. Basically almost every Martin fan will tell you it's the best one, and I agree. The second half of ASOS is truly excellent. If you don't like it after that, then I'd say quit. But it would be much better I think if you chose the end of book 3 to quit rather than book 2, because it can almost be described as a mini-trilogy. Obviously I don't want to spoil you, but damn there are some brilliant scenes in that. Great book. I don't know if his characters improve since I've always thought of them as great, but they sure do develop. One character in particular becomes a lot more likable who up until then you probably hated, and the line between good and bad becomes, if possible, even more blurred. But it's your call.
"Even the damned may love." - Roland of Gilead, the last gunslinger.
"Even the damned may love." - Roland of Gilead, the last gunslinger.
#471 Guest_Sprout_*
Posted 12 March 2003 - 11:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Nexuslord:
To comment on all the criticism voiced towards RJ, how many people do you think buy the prologue? I mean, you get it when you buy the book for god's sake. Only the purely fanatical readers will buy the prologue, and they are probably extremely happy that RJ released it beforehand. And this does not lend credit to everyones' theories of RJ writing solely for the money, since then he would have done what GRRM did and tried to attract more people, not pleasing his die-hard fans with a sneak peak.
I bought the prologue.
--
Vae puto deus fio
#472 Guest_Falco_*
Posted 01 July 2003 - 08:40 PM
@Voland- i think that Jordan makes me care about his characters more- its as simple as that. I care about what happens to Mat, Rand, Perrin, Lan et al. , whereas i just did not care about Tyrion, Cersei, Rob, Ned etc. I just could not seem to connect with them at all. Jordan's writing is worse in other respects, but he makes me care about his characters and thats why despite the idiotic plotlines, i keep reading...Erikson is awesome as he combines the best of both worlds. But hey, thats just me...
"I am a son who lives without hope of ever matching my father's stride"- L'oric
"I am a son who lives without hope of ever matching my father's stride"- L'oric
#473 Guest_Masked One_*
Posted 03 February 2003 - 01:37 PM
The next book? WHich one is that?
******************************
Beneath each mask lies a face unseen.
Beneath my mask lies all the faces I have seen.
******************************
Beneath each mask lies a face unseen.
Beneath my mask lies all the faces I have seen.
#474 Guest_Drake Labatt_*
Posted 15 July 2003 - 01:16 PM
Er, it would be something if that theory is true , but it's not really *that* interesting. 
I prefer this theory:
- Sandor
- Gregor
- and Hodor Clegane
Hodor could be a member of the Clegane family, albiet somewhat dumber and less aggressive than his cousins (whatever).
======
Living on a lighted stage, approaches the unreal,
for those who think and feel, in touch with some reality beyond the gilded
cage.
Rush - "Limelight"
, but it's not really *that* interesting. I prefer this theory:
- Sandor
- Gregor
- and Hodor Clegane
Hodor could be a member of the Clegane family, albiet somewhat dumber and less aggressive than his cousins (whatever).
======
Living on a lighted stage, approaches the unreal,
for those who think and feel, in touch with some reality beyond the gilded
cage.
Rush - "Limelight"
#475 Guest_Pale Remnants_*
Posted 29 March 2003 - 08:52 AM
"Retrospective" ?. I've not heard about this.We're all still waiting on FoC.
As if by magic,the shopkeeper appeared.
As if by magic,the shopkeeper appeared.
#476 Guest_Kilor_*
Posted 26 January 2003 - 03:25 AM
@Gothos: I too feel that Tolkien is overrated. The LotR films are good though.
Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings.
Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings.
#477 Guest__*
Posted 31 August 2002 - 06:21 AM
well, I forgot about Daenerys - she is really c00l, sir Jorah Mormont too
Bran - silly little kid
Sansa - well, she annoyed me almost as much as Jeoffrey... but Arya was cool imo
------------------
Victims are we all...
Bran - silly little kid
Sansa - well, she annoyed me almost as much as Jeoffrey... but Arya was cool imo
------------------
Victims are we all...
#478
drosdelnoch
- Lieutenant
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 122
- Joined: 03-September 02
Posted 18 February 2004 - 06:23 PM
I wouldnt like to bet on that Wim, if he's taken this long to write book 4 how long is it going to take for him to write book 5 plus is it also going to be a case of them splitting the book release into two halves again so that he gets 2 years to write the next one?
Im all for an author meeting fans but I'd like to know how much time he spends at conventions alongside traveling offed against how much time he spends writing. After all if your in a good flow and then have to stop its difficult to pick up with the quality that you were writing with in the beginning after a break. Just think that an author should perhaps limit tour time and perhaps look at delivering the goods for a set date. After all how many deadlines has he missed now.
Most publishers like the finished manuscript for about three months before publication date to edit it and print it which means that to get it out for June it'll have to be finished in the next month. I dont think he'll make it perhaps a Christmas release.
----------------------------
Pick a window, your leaving!
Im all for an author meeting fans but I'd like to know how much time he spends at conventions alongside traveling offed against how much time he spends writing. After all if your in a good flow and then have to stop its difficult to pick up with the quality that you were writing with in the beginning after a break. Just think that an author should perhaps limit tour time and perhaps look at delivering the goods for a set date. After all how many deadlines has he missed now.
Most publishers like the finished manuscript for about three months before publication date to edit it and print it which means that to get it out for June it'll have to be finished in the next month. I dont think he'll make it perhaps a Christmas release.
----------------------------
Pick a window, your leaving!
#479
Gothos
- Map painting expert
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 5,428
- Joined: 01-January 03
- Location:.pl
Posted 20 February 2003 - 01:47 PM
well, maybe 2 years?
----------------------------------------
everything I do crumbles into dust in my hands... runs down between my fingers to the tear-soaked floor... the curse of living is upon me
----------------------------------------
everything I do crumbles into dust in my hands... runs down between my fingers to the tear-soaked floor... the curse of living is upon me
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
