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The USA politics thread - The other political idiocy - This is Democracy?

#9421 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:40 PM

It doesn't have to be deliberately malevolent to cause real harm.

Also don't trust the Dems to fix anything.
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#9422 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#9423 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 12:27 PM

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.


Since this is the USA politics thread, you must be saying you voted Democrat once, right?

Since they are conservative and the GOP is regressive?
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#9424 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 01:59 PM

View PostObdigore, on 22 April 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.


Since this is the USA politics thread, you must be saying you voted Democrat once, right?

Since they are conservative and the GOP is regressive?


Conservatives are the Canadian right-wing party. Not as extreme as the Republicans, but there's certainly some overlap.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#9425 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:42 PM

View PostD, on 22 April 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostObdigore, on 22 April 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.


Since this is the USA politics thread, you must be saying you voted Democrat once, right?

Since they are conservative and the GOP is regressive?


Conservatives are the Canadian right-wing party. Not as extreme as the Republicans, but there's certainly some overlap.


Not for lack of trying either (See: Doug Ford), but at least our system is not as completely broken as the one in the States.

As Apt said further upthread, the US only "pretends to have a representative democracy" while doing everything they can (as a people) to make sure it's not any such thing.
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#9426 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:58 PM

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.

Is this the entirety of your response to the discussion of Nicodimas's stated positions on this board?

I do not think anyone is saying you are a racist or a homophobic person. However, you are currently ~kinda~ insisting that someone who has vocally supported many extremely racist policies cannot be called out for those racist actions.

Aptorian has pointed out that these positions are common in groups who heavily follow InfoWars or Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson etc. That's true and they are also racist positions to take because of the racist reasons they have publicly stated to justify those positions.

I understand the reluctance to say that a person on this forum or in real life is being racist, but it is abundantly clear that Nicodimas is being that level of racist in his continuing support for the Trump/GOP proposed policies and actions.

Briar King voted for Trump and has since made dozens of posts talking about how he can't abide the acts of racism or idiocy that the president has done. It is entirely possible to have voted for a person and then disavow what they do when in office while working to ensure that a better person gets in next.
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#9427 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 03:52 PM

View PostD, on 22 April 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostObdigore, on 22 April 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.


Since this is the USA politics thread, you must be saying you voted Democrat once, right?

Since they are conservative and the GOP is regressive?


Conservatives are the Canadian right-wing party. Not as extreme as the Republicans, but there's certainly some overlap.


I'd suggest Canadian Conservatives are more akin to the older Democrats.

Remember that the US has literally no major liberal party. It is conservative and regressive, and those are the shitty choices because of a shitty system.
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#9428 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 08:11 PM

View PostObdigore, on 22 April 2019 - 03:52 PM, said:

View PostD, on 22 April 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostObdigore, on 22 April 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.


Since this is the USA politics thread, you must be saying you voted Democrat once, right?

Since they are conservative and the GOP is regressive?


Conservatives are the Canadian right-wing party. Not as extreme as the Republicans, but there's certainly some overlap.


I'd suggest Canadian Conservatives are more akin to the older Democrats.

Remember that the US has literally no major liberal party. It is conservative and regressive, and those are the shitty choices because of a shitty system.


Well, I don't know what the "older Democrats" were like, but why mince words? Call a cow a cow, as you said. The Conservative Party's platforms over the last several elections has included trumpeting exclusionary immigration changes and they have largely not been in favour of the advancement of gay rights in this country. I tacitly supported that administration by voting for them, in other words I am (or was) espousing policies and politicians that are inherently racist and homophobic, and hence I support racism and homophobia.




View Postamphibian, on 22 April 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

View PostD, on 20 April 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, I voted conservative once so I guess I'm a racist and homophobe then.

Is this the entirety of your response to the discussion of Nicodimas's stated positions on this board?


Of course not. It's a provocative statement that will engender further discussion.

View Postamphibian, on 22 April 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

I do not think anyone is saying you are a racist or a homophobic person.


I am. Or, at least, I'm speculating on it. Perhaps it is like the adage of "people who are crazy don't know they're crazy" ... maybe I *am* racist and don't realize it, myself? And if we define it as "taking any action to support an administration/organization which itself commits racist acts, regardless of personal motive" then I unequivocally am.

View Postamphibian, on 22 April 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

However, you are currently ~kinda~ insisting that someone who has vocally supported many extremely racist policies cannot be called out for those racist actions.


Or, conversely, it's fine to call those out and I'm putting myself out there to get called out next? I dunno.

View Postamphibian, on 22 April 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

Aptorian has pointed out that these positions are common in groups who heavily follow InfoWars or Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson etc. That's true and they are also racist positions to take because of the racist reasons they have publicly stated to justify those positions.


In this day and age, those people are the modern "caricatures of klansmen" you described, though. And like you said, there must be plenty of people who aren't so obvious but are the same in consequence. And I'm one of them.

View Postamphibian, on 22 April 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

I understand the reluctance to say that a person on this forum or in real life is being racist, but it is abundantly clear that Nicodimas is being that level of racist in his continuing support for the Trump/GOP proposed policies and actions.


Right. He's supporting the administration that is committing racist acts. We don't really know his underlying motivation or personal beliefs in any particular detail, but that doesn't matter, all that matters is the facts that he is supporting the administration vocally here.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#9429 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 08:29 PM

The hell has happened to this thread?

Can we get back to politics and not personal shit?
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#9430 User is online   Aptorian 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 03:01 AM

Amphibian and D'reks debate is at the heart of US politics. What does it mean to vote for or support a political party?
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#9431 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 03:06 AM

No, a lot of that shit is about Nico.

That is worthless.
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#9432 User is offline   Studlock 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 04:19 AM

Nico is clearly on the libertarian-to-fascist pipeline which has had, lets say, oversized effect on American politics in the last four or so years. Before most Republicans were fine playing the game of 'civility' with establishment Dems, even if it was only ever the veneer of civility, but now most of them are completely mask-offs. Extreme anti-immigration measures that will lead to ethnic cleansing supported. Craven tax cuts for the super rich just because. Overt, and violent, xenophobic zeal. Even a crooked and corrupted distrust of 'elites' that completely misses the point of the problem of a political elite in favouring of coding them as black or gay.

Nico, or at least the type of person Nico represents, is extremely important to politics in America (unless, of course, you think politics is just two teams playing a game, which is an incredibly stupid way to think about politics, politics is about organizing power). The personal, of course, is political, for most people in which the personal is medium in which the political engages them on (I'm personally poor, and im native, so that means living in a system that punishes poor people for their poverty, and living in a settler-colonial state that at best wants to forget the genocide that empowered them, and at worst want to celebrate them). Understanding Nico is extremely important to understand the politics at play right in the right, and he has slowly descended into basically excepting fascist policies, and the exact opposite of his old (as of three years ago) libertarian framework, but that is by-and-large, the meaty center of Trump's political base, the people who'll never say no to Trumps actions.

This post has been edited by Studlock: 23 April 2019 - 04:20 AM

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#9433 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 03:44 PM

Tangential:Link to Netflix AOC doc from Sundance. Looks great!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 April 2019 - 03:45 PM

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#9434 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:10 PM

That looks so inspiring (and also, knowing some of the other outcomes, perhaps maddening -- but that's probably valuable too).

On the 2020 horse race tip, I am so impressed with Liz Warren. I can't overstate how nice it would be to have a policy wonk of her extraordinary facility, w/ a seemingly genuine & fearless will to actually do good with it, steering the conversation. Debt cancellation, boosting funding to HBCs, the ultra-millionaire tax, she's on board with the green new deal, pro-impeachment, immediate to defend Ilhan Omar, she's ahead of Bernie (and even AOC, for that matter) on reparations, she consistently wrecks CEOs (as much as they can be) during hearings, and who knows what the CFPB could accomplish with her as prez. I'm not planning to decide who of the only two worthwhile candidates to vote forany time soon, necessarily, but she's definitely earned a campaign donation or two already.

Anyway, this world is a hell, so she's trailing a lot of people at the moment, and the fact that she's so good at the wonk stuff makes her less appealing to mainstream media. Also SCOTUS is set to screw over a lot of people, from land-mining the census to depress 'blue' population respondants, to LGBTQ civil rights protections. Also, a white supremacist militia is patrolling the border, pretending to be CBP, in order to hold immigrants at gun point and order them around.
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#9435 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:29 PM

I'm impressed with Warren the most so far as well. I really doubt she can win the nomination, but I'm hoping she could maybe secure the VP where she can actually do some good policy work.
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#9436 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 09:07 PM

I saw a tweet by her which I found hard to believe but by all accounts is true where she said "If we put a 2% tax on the wealthiest families in the country we can have universal pre-K, universal free college, knock back student loan debt for 95% of Americans and still have a trillion dollars left over."

I find that fascinating. 2% is nothing. I mean I'd like to see who would make the cut of "wealthiest families" and suchlike but people were commenting saying that she was a professor of economics and as such is quite qualified to say these things. It'll never happen in an ultra-capitalist Oligarchy (which, let's face it, the US is, despite it trying to talk about being a free and fair democracy...) but it's nice to dream!
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#9437 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 09:35 PM

It would apply to households whose wealth is $50 million or higher, which is roughly the top 75,000 households (man this is a huge, rich country). Then billionaires would have an extra 1% surtax on the money they're hoarding over $1 billion. And itt being Warren, she actually has many of the details on her site, including minimum audit rates for the ultra rich, an "exit tax" for those abandoning their citizenship to avoid taxation, etc.: Link
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#9438 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:04 PM

Yeah, she's awesome.


Also



Joeeeee Bideeeennnnn.

He's not my favorite, but he's safe and he'll probably secure the nomination.
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#9439 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:45 AM

Biden has the rather extreme drawback of several public not-quite-assault situations where he sniffs women's hair or touches them inappropriately. I hope this spikes his campaign and he can do stuff like find a better senator in Alabama than Dough Jones. I did not mistype Dough.
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#9440 User is online   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 02:49 AM

View Postamphibian, on 24 April 2019 - 01:45 AM, said:

Biden has the rather extreme drawback of several public not-quite-assault situations where he sniffs women's hair or touches them inappropriately. I hope this spikes his campaign and he can do stuff like find a better senator in Alabama than Dough Jones. I did not mistype Dough.


This guy?

https://www.youtube....h?v=Lm29Wc227iM

(Or is that Biden?)
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