[Loki]

Okay, have found my third complaint - FemShep only has one male romance option that can be started in ME3 and that's -

Spoiler

Kaidan......but Kaidan died on Virmire! So my ME2 FemShep that romanced Jacob (had to do it once for prosperity sake) can't romance someone knew after Jacob does the dirty on her and knocks up some cerberus whore. Not cool! Yes i know that there are three lesbian options but my FemShep doesn't swing that way.

This post has been edited by Loki: 19 March 2012 - 09:52 PM

[Tapper]

Quote

Quote

Did anyone else notice this little Easter Egg in the war assets, "the 104 marine corps, combat engineers, codenamed "The Bridgeburners" tight-nit group of brave men and women" or some such, don't have the game loaded up right now 8D

I caught that too. Made me wonder if the Graal Shotgun was a reference to the Gral in the Seven Cities.

Noticed it quite a while before y'all :

Tapper, on 09 March 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

I wonder if the Team Zeta "Bridge Burners" unit that becomes an upgrade to the Alliance Marines is a wink towards MBotF....

[Defiance]

Thought I linked this earlier, here's a document breaking down just how illogical the ending is. While you may not agree with every point (there were a few things that just felt like nitpicking), the author does a great job of outlining all of the problems.


https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

Spoiler

Spoiler opinion:

I just hate how the endings don't hold up to even a few seconds of evaluation. The number of plot holes is astounding. That's not even what frustrated me most, though. What made me angry is 1) The fact that every previous choice I made up until that moment didn't amount to shit, and 2) The fact that we don't get to see the consequence of our decision. Mass Effect has always prided itself as a series that lets you see the consequences of your actions. And yet, besides seeing a different colored light, you don't see anything that happens. I'm not asking for a happy ending, I'm not asking for a Return of the King length closure. I'm just wanted to see how things played out a bit.

Finally, the final conversation with the Star Child was utter bullshit. No matter how you played your Shepard, I'm pretty sure he would have listened to those choices and been like, "Woah woah woah, BULLSHIT kid. You have some explaining to do!" While the synthesis ending might be Bioware's declared "best" ending, you have absolutely nothing to go on with that. Why? Because you can't ask questions about why synthesis is the best. How does it happen? (oh pretty green light space magic! And if synthesis is the pinnacle of all life, why the fuck didn't the Reapers just do it in the first place? Ergh, there are SO many plot holes with this!!!!) Why does Shepard just stand there drooling, making a choice that will determine the fate of the galaxy with barely a question asked? Fucking idiotic.

Oh, and why was Joker bugging out on you, along with the rest of your crew? They would NEVER do that. Yet, if you look at the ending, they're in the middle of a Mass Relay jump, meaning they were getting the hell out of Dodge before Shepard made his decision. Meaning your crew was just like, "Oh well, peace Shepard, we're out!" They would NEVER do that. Completely unbelievable.

It's such a shame, considering the voice acting, the music, and the atmosphere of the ending was flawless. The actual content, though, was just utter bullshit.

And no, I do not want Bioware to change the ending. I wish that the ending we got didn't exist, I wish that Bioware hadn't dropped the ball, but I neither expect nor want them to change it.

This post has been edited by Defiance: 19 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

[drinksinbars]

i enjoyed the game and the ending,

Spoiler

if you ever read any peter hamilton its remarkably similar to how he ends whoe series of books so it was expected to be something like that. there was also no difference in the endings beyond the colour of the beam and with another game not expected that is just lazy after such a long haul.

the stupidest bit though is how your squad magically appears at the end despite what went before. how when they died on earth int he final atatck did they magically make it to the ship?

the most annoying part of the game had to be the sections where you have to walk, call me an impatient bastard, but stupid dream sequences where i walk are fu****g boring, and the final decision shouldnt require me to hobble so if i wanted to change my mind it would take me four hours to make it to the other choices.

remarkably like deus ex in that it disregards quite a lot for the very smallest of changes in the end. Plus so many glitches inthe game, of quests not leaving the journal though they were completed or names not leaving the map when the quest ended though the character is gone...

This post has been edited by drinksinbars: 20 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

[Tapper]

Defiance, on 19 March 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Thought I linked this earlier, here's a document breaking down just how illogical the ending is. While you may not agree with every point (there were a few things that just felt like nitpicking), the author does a great job of outlining all of the problems.


https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

Spoiler

Spoiler opinion:

I just hate how the endings don't hold up to even a few seconds of evaluation. The number of plot holes is astounding. That's not even what frustrated me most, though. What made me angry is 1) The fact that every previous choice I made up until that moment didn't amount to shit, and 2) The fact that we don't get to see the consequence of our decision. Mass Effect has always prided itself as a series that lets you see the consequences of your actions. And yet, besides seeing a different colored light, you don't see anything that happens. I'm not asking for a happy ending, I'm not asking for a Return of the King length closure. I'm just wanted to see how things played out a bit.

Finally, the final conversation with the Star Child was utter bullshit. No matter how you played your Shepard, I'm pretty sure he would have listened to those choices and been like, "Woah woah woah, BULLSHIT kid. You have some explaining to do!" While the synthesis ending might be Bioware's declared "best" ending, you have absolutely nothing to go on with that. Why? Because you can't ask questions about why synthesis is the best. How does it happen? (oh pretty green light space magic! And if synthesis is the pinnacle of all life, why the fuck didn't the Reapers just do it in the first place? Ergh, there are SO many plot holes with this!!!!) Why does Shepard just stand there drooling, making a choice that will determine the fate of the galaxy with barely a question asked? Fucking idiotic.

Oh, and why was Joker bugging out on you, along with the rest of your crew? They would NEVER do that. Yet, if you look at the ending, they're in the middle of a Mass Relay jump, meaning they were getting the hell out of Dodge before Shepard made his decision. Meaning your crew was just like, "Oh well, peace Shepard, we're out!" They would NEVER do that. Completely unbelievable.

It's such a shame, considering the voice acting, the music, and the atmosphere of the ending was flawless. The actual content, though, was just utter bullshit.

And no, I do not want Bioware to change the ending. I wish that the ending we got didn't exist, I wish that Bioware hadn't dropped the ball, but I neither expect nor want them to change it.

Y'know, the writer of that piece may have points (and no, I hadn't picked up most of that during my one play-through of the ending sequence, however, he doesn't convince me that it is therefore bad), but he loses all credibility when he goes out and states that 'we, as a society and consumer base need to demand a higher degree of competence from the people we pay to make art and entertainment.'

A. He can decide NOT to buy it. There were plenty of comments and videos out there from just after the release that warned him. It's called voting with your feet.
B. He buys a mass-produced article. If he wants influence on design/ outcome, he should custom-order something.
C. Bioware is the owner of the intellectual property, not him. That means they can do what they want with it, whether you like it or not.
D. it sounds an awful lot like he's wanting to dictate what art (and, way less important, entertainment) should be like (although often art is meant is entertainment - see music, books, movies), which is in my humble opinion a dictatorial trait and therefore ill-becoming and detracting from the argument. What's next, complaining that Mona Lisa is imperfect because 'the background is lopsided and out of perspective'? Dismissing Roy Lichtenstein's work as non-art because 'it is just pixels and not of a very good quality either, my two-year old sister could do that too', opting to rebuild the Venus of Milo 'because her arms and nose have fallen off', rewriting Joyce's Ulysses 'because the lingo doesn't make sense', demanding SE to rewrite MoI 'because clearly there is no way Whiskeyjack's leg can snap like that'?

Spoiler

Finally, he admits to the option that the ending is very deliberately done in a surreal fashion, which would debunk any and all of his arguments against the ending because then it all happens in Shepards' mind.

It seems to me that ending has been deliberately written, designed, programmed and manufactored by people who do have a better grasp of the intricacies of the ME3 universe and who would know the ending wouldn't stand up to scrutiny, and that the end(s) may well have been written long before the voice acting and scripting had finished. Games seldom are developed in a linear fashion, I'd say.
They might even be able to predict the outrage it caused, and the impact that might have on future sales. And still they went ahead with it.

I'd say there's a plan there, instead of incompetence.
Heck, like Deus Ex 3 had a DLC taking place in one of the gaps in the story, so might ME 3. In which case, wanting to puzzle the fan base (which may have backfired into infuriating a relatively large and very vocal minority of it - see how many here have real issues with it as an illustration, because it IS a minority) is a pretty good way to launch said DLC.

They'll get critized for not including it in the vanilla game, of course, but it would fit both their statement that they wouldn't add epilogues and it would be the one thing that would make it a must-buy DLC for just about everyone.

[Dammon]

Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast, on 19 March 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Who's playing on PC and what's your Origin ID? I wants to multiplayerz.

I'm on PC. My Origin ID is Shadow-Dammon

[Morgoth]

I'm definitly not buying some sort of expanded ending DLC unless the internet collectively agrees it's more value for your money than The Shadowbroker, and even if so that'll be the last EA production I'll pay for in the near future.

I'm not one of those who complain about DLCs. I quite enjoy being able to expand my gaming experience with such mini-expansions. I certainly didn't mind having to pay for Katsumi, Overlord, or The Shadowbroker. When you need to pay extra to get the full ending however, that's going too far and I'm not supporting that with my money.

[Loki]

I've found my fourth complaint -

Spoiler

Zaeed's name doesn't appear on the Wall when he dies. He was a member of my crew and deserves the same bloody respect granted to all the other members of my crew when they die. This annoys me a lot. I'm going to have to etch his name on there myself

So, only four minor complaints...well the quest updating one is moderate but the point being - if that's all I can find to complain about then I have no problem at all with people giving it 10 out of 10.

[Gothos]

something about the endings:

Spoiler

[Morgoth]

Yeah, that summarises it pretty well. Isolated the ending is perfectly ok, but it worked so that our choices had no meaning, which defeats the entire premise of the series.

[Loki]

Would you have preferred that our choices locked us into an ending instead? I can imagine a lot more people would be angry if they had no choice in the games end whatsoever. Personally i would have been happy either way. I like the end but i also like having to deal with and accept the consequences of my previous actions. Just how would you have done the end?

This post has been edited by Loki: 20 March 2012 - 12:33 PM

[Tapper]

Morgoth, on 20 March 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Yeah, that summarises it pretty well. Isolated the ending is perfectly ok, but it worked so that our choices had no meaning, which defeats the entire premise of the series.

On the personal level, that is entirely true. On a universal level, it isn't, per sé.

Spoiler

Quarian-Geth co-existence in 2/3 being possible or 1 of them being wiped out, Rachni existence (OK, that IS a sore point), Genophage being revoked or not.... In the interaction between player and party, it has NO effect, I agree - and that I'm slightly sorry about.

But, on the level of 'Mass' Effect (le sigh, bad pun intended), there is influence, just not in the movies. They are sidenotes, codex entries and quest results rather than story-telling therefore being rather dry and dusty, but seen from a galactic PoV, they're more important than Shep and Liara making lots of blue babies. In that way, choices do matter - off-screen.

Maybe I'm just easily satisfied and/or unwilling to see the bad about something that was in and of itself an outstanding experience apart from a minute of video, but... I can't let any personal disappointment over such a thing get the better over all the enjoyment I got out of the game

This post has been edited by Tapper: 20 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

[Gothos]

Loki, on 20 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Would you have preferred that our choices locked us into an ending instead?

Yes. Make the whole game/trilogy an ending-choosing process. That would've been too awesome for words.

Quote

I can imagine a lot more people would be angry if they had no choice in the games end whatsoever.

But there would be choice. A lot of it. You'd spend 25-150 hours making choices.

Quote

Just how would you have done the end?

Spoiler

Shep probably dead, but an ending that doesn't end galactic civilization either way you choose. Killing the relays in all options is just bad. I would like to see an ending where wether you cured the genophage, brought geth and quarians together, let rachni live, and so on - would make a difference. Any sort of difference. Right now the only difference all that makes is some numbers and war asset text. If it's not the final ending and it was indeed just Shep being indoctrinated, it's another dick move to make the real ending DLC, but I'd still prefer that to what it is now.
Like, remember Dragon Age: Origins, and how the choices made some difference in the end, even if it was some flavour text? Wether you supported Behlen or Harrowmont, how you dealt with Fereldan succesion, that sort of thing is what I mean. I want my playthrough to create a new world and have meaning.

[Loki]

As far as I am concerned Mass Effect is the story of Shepard - it starts and ends with him.

Spoiler

so when Shep dies the story ends. Let the affects of Shep's final choices shape the next ME Universe based game (if they make one) like importing DAO into DA2.

[Tapper]

Loki, on 20 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Would you have preferred that our choices locked us into an ending instead? I can imagine a lot more people would be angry if they had no choice in the games end whatsoever. Personally i would have been happy either way. I like the end but i also like having to deal with and accept the consequences of my previous actions. Just how would you have done the end?

Actually, that would have been awesome, permitting that as Gothos suggests, some or all your bigger choices from 1, 2 and 3 had an effect. I do think that complaints would be sky-high, though "I make one tiny decision in ME1 and now you made me kill the Turians, wut Bioware, you want me to replay 150 hours again just to change that!?" et cetera.

Spoiler

For me, well, it would have a positive effect, I guess. I would have been enraged enough to start a new playthrough if I saw in the post-playthrough report that the Rachni would have gone on a universe-conquering rampage because I was paragony-gullible twice in saving their queen but opted for culling the Krogan strength by maintaining the genophage, for example.

[Morgoth]

Tapper, on 20 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 20 March 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Yeah, that summarises it pretty well. Isolated the ending is perfectly ok, but it worked so that our choices had no meaning, which defeats the entire premise of the series.

On the personal level, that is entirely true. On a universal level, it isn't, per sé.

Spoiler

Quarian-Geth co-existence in 2/3 being possible or 1 of them being wiped out, Rachni existence (OK, that IS a sore point), Genophage being revoked or not.... In the interaction between player and party, it has NO effect, I agree - and that I'm slightly sorry about.

But, on the level of 'Mass' Effect (le sigh, bad pun intended), there is influence, just not in the movies. They are sidenotes, codex entries and quest results rather than story-telling therefore being rather dry and dusty, but seen from a galactic PoV, they're more important than Shep and Liara making lots of blue babies. In that way, choices do matter - off-screen.

Maybe I'm just easily satisfied and/or unwilling to see the bad about something that was in and of itself an outstanding experience apart from a minute of video, but... I can't let any personal disappointment over such a thing get the better over all the enjoyment I got out of the game

Oh I agree, I loved the game. And the tragic ending really stays with me, so I'm not complaining about that either. However, I would have liked there to be a stronger feel of... influence in the finale. Typically this would have been a minor gripe, but as we were promised something very different it feels dissapointing all the same.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

I just read that article that Defiance posted. I think that the guy's ultimate goal in suggesting that the ending was poorly written and that we should expect better is wrong. However,

Spoiler

I do think that the points he's made about the scenes indicating a hallucination and a struggle agains indoctrination appear to be valid and also that that's an awesome idea. Perhaps more so than if the ending is intended to be 'real' and taken at face value.

I mean, if it is all just in Shepard's mind and we never find out what really happened...that's just awesome and, as the guy says, it does seem to make the option we're presented with make a little more sense.

I am also left rather confused because:

1. I swear I only had two options—control or destroy...where was my synthesise option??

2. I never had a scene of Shepard awakening back in London, in the rubble, after having made my ultimate decision...was I supposed to? What's he talking about? Help.

EDIT: Just spoilered all of that for spoiler reasons. Apologies to anyone who read it before I realised that I hadn't spoilered all of my MASSIVE SPOILERS! D:

This post has been edited by Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast: 20 March 2012 - 07:39 PM

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Found this video, too:

Spoiler

[Dammon]

Loki, on 20 March 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

I've found my fourth complaint -

Spoiler

Zaeed's name doesn't appear on the Wall when he dies. He was a member of my crew and deserves the same bloody respect granted to all the other members of my crew when they die. This annoys me a lot. I'm going to have to etch his name on there myself

So, only four minor complaints...well the quest updating one is moderate but the point being - if that's all I can find to complain about then I have no problem at all with people giving it 10 out of 10.

I also noticed:

Spoiler

Kelly Chambers name doesn't appear on the wall when she is killed by Cerberus on the Citadel, I was pretty disappointed with that.

This post has been edited by Dammon: 21 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

[Loki]

Dammon, on 21 March 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Loki, on 20 March 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

I've found my fourth complaint -

Spoiler

Zaeed's name doesn't appear on the Wall when he dies. He was a member of my crew and deserves the same bloody respect granted to all the other members of my crew when they die. This annoys me a lot. I'm going to have to etch his name on there myself

So, only four minor complaints...well the quest updating one is moderate but the point being - if that's all I can find to complain about then I have no problem at all with people giving it 10 out of 10.

I also noticed:

Spoiler

Kelly Chambers name doesn't appear on the wall when she is killed by Cerberus on the Citadel, I was pretty disappointed with that.

I didn't notice that as

Spoiler

she didn't die during the Cerberus attack on the Citadel in my game. At first I thought it might be because she was Cerberus and not an Alliance crewmen but then I remembered Thane and Legion worked for non-Alliance Shep so I'm not sure what criteria was used for the wall