[Obdigore]

Kanubis, on 13 March 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

About that bit what you're all discussing:

Spoiler

I didn't mind Andersen dying. I mean, I was gutted, but it was a touching moment.

I just thought it would be nice if he stayed alive because I did everything, not because I half-assed it.

Also

Spoiler

apparently you can convince to Illusive Man to kill himself with the paragon/renegade choices, but you have to have taken specific conversation choices when talking to him at other parts of the game before that, it isn't tied to your paragon/renegade score.

[Dammon]

Indications from the Mass Effect twitter accounts are that this might not be the end and that bioware has something extra in store for us.

[Gothos]

For just $19.99!


In any case, I thought I'd share one frustration: some body animations in cutscenes seem really, really wrong - bugged as fuck. Best example is femshep putting her hand to her ear as in using comm - half the time the hand goes halfway through her head, it breaks immersion something fierce. Also missing objects chars are supposedly passing to each other. And ingame, sometimes the ladders don't work right and you end up standing on thin air 2 paces in front of the edge.

Sigh.

[Tapper]

Dammon, on 14 March 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Indications from the Mass Effect twitter accounts are that this might not be the end and that bioware has something extra in store for us.

Is that DLC, additional endings, or a whole new game?

[Tapper]

Anyhow, finished it.

Spoiler

Green ending. Considering biotics are tech enabled, that EDI has shown AIs can be beneficial, that I built peace between geth and quarians (aka a species of AIs and a species of organics), synthesis and the accompanying symbiosis made a whole lot of sense. What made less sense was that Liara got of the Normandy in the movie (didn't spot Garrus but him not being blue may not make him stand out) while she and mr. Turian ought to be dead amidst all the marines that stormed the upload link, but I'm not too bothered by that.

Regarding Anderson living, well, no real success. I got the Illusive Man to shoot himself because I'm such a convincing little paragon, but I think Anderson still died on account of me shooting him while the I.M. controlled me through the mechanics in me. Point is moot anyway since the Citadel blew up...not much could survive that.

Personally, early on in the game, I was more or less convinced that Citadel itself was Mommy Reaper (in a way, it was of course) and it was leading the Reapers and functioned as the main harvesting station. But oh well.

Great game. Was it me, or were the endless waves of evil much harder to kill in London than anywhere else in the game?

[Gothos]

Finished. More thoughts tomorrow.

[Slow Ben]

Gothos, on 14 March 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

In any case, I thought I'd share one frustration: some body animations in cutscenes seem really, really wrong - bugged as fuck. Best example is femshep putting her hand to her ear as in using comm - half the time the hand goes halfway through her head, it breaks immersion something fierce. Also missing objects chars are supposedly passing to each other. And ingame, sometimes the ladders don't work right and you end up standing on thin air 2 paces in front of the edge.

Sigh.

At one point during the game some Cerberus troops were hopping in a ship and running away. They take off, but i'm still getting shot from somewhere. Finally I look up and the ship had taken off, but they were floating 40 feet above the ground shooting at me.

I really need to finish this damn game so i can read all the spoilers.

[Defiance]

I hated the ending. I knew that Bioware was going to blow it, that the mystery of the Reapers would amount to something lame and that the choices you made throughout the series wouldn't change how things ended. A small part of me was really hoping otherwise.

My feelings on the ending. Hopefully they make sense, I wrote this while I was in a fit of rage:

Spoiler

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

Just take a look around at the general consensus on the internet, and you'll know why I hate the ending.

Here is one article that looks into it: http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-end...fans-are-right/

But, for the sake of discussion, here are some of my top reasons, in no particular order:

1) All three choices are the same. All that changes is the color of light shooting out from the Mass Relays, and whether or not Shepard can live.

2) Lack of discussion with Catalyst AI. Throughout the series, I have built my Shepard to be inquisitive. I've always been able to ask questions. And yet, with this AI, there isn't even the option. It all pretty much just plays out in a cut scene. So, you're telling me that Shepard isn't going to pry the Catalyst for a little knowledge? Ask it what it projects will happen for each option?

3) Bad logic. So, the Reapers exist to wipe out advanced organic life, so that synthetics don't destroy everything. I hate that the Reapers exist for that, I was hoping they'd be so much more intriguing, but whatever, can't change it. Anyway, their determination is completely nonsensical. Why anyone (the most advanced AI in the galaxy, for that matter) would believe their logic astounds me. So, how did this race of long ago determine this? Because what they created was going to wipe them out? So, they conclude:

a) That this will happen to every advanced race

That they will stop this by leaving people the Mass Relays and other technology they created. The same technology that inevitably LED to synthetics destroying organics. Prime example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The worst thing about this is you can't even make a case for yourself. I don't care if the Catalyst would have accepted the logic or not, the fact that Shepard can't make a case is idiotic. So, you have a human and AI relationship (Joker and EDI), and the Quarians and the Geth are now all buddy buddy. Hey, look, things won't always end how you think. There are anomalies, things could be different this time. But no, I don't even get to argue it.

Hell, they don't even let you make your case for the meaning of life. The idea of making choices and owning up to them. Instead, Shepard just sits there drooling and makes a choice that he has next to no information on. And who the hell is Shepard to choose whether or not ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY becomes a mix of synthetic and organic? How exactly does this Mass Relay pulse cause this?

4) The Catalyst Star Child. Minor complaint, but the scene would have been much more effective if it had been a Reaper voice, like Sovereign or Harbinger.

5) No closure. So, the Mass Relays blow up. Remember the last time that happened? 300,000 dead. So, Shepard probably just killed billions of people. But whatever, no need to go into that. No need even see a slight montage of the repercussions your actions will have. We'll just give you some stupid ending the a guy and his kid.

6) Joker and the crew. How did he get everyone? The power of friendship? Why was he doing a Mass Relay jump?

7) Your choices throughout the series do not bear any significance to the ending.

Straight from the Bioware Mass Effect 3 site:

Quote

Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.

Bullshit. My choices do not shape the outcome. The only thing that changes is Anderson living or dying and the condition of Earth. But in the end, I don't care about that. Those things really don't matter. A single character living, and the survival of a planet that, until this game, had zero significance to me?


I'll stop there for now. I could rant for hours.

It's really such a shame. The ending scene with Shepard on the citadel, bruised and bloody and torn apart, with the battle for Earth going on right outside is amazingly well done. The music is stellar. The entire moment is just ruined by poor writing. I'm not upset that things were rather tragic - hell, I read that originally Garrus and Liara were supposed to be killed by Harbinger at the end, but Shepard has to continue on without even a backward glance because completing his mission is paramount. Heart wrenching stuff.

I'm frustrated that it doesn't make sense. I don't need a golden ending where I ride away in golden armor riding unicorn with Liara. I just want something logical, something that fits with the themes of the series, something that takes into account the choices you made, something that provides at least a small amount of closure. Bioware promised our questions would be answered, but instead they just created more questions.

You know you're doing something wrong when fans have raised nearly $50,000 for charity in just two days to protest the ending.

[Tapper]

Defiance, on 15 March 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I hated the ending. I knew that Bioware was going to blow it, that the mystery of the Reapers would amount to something lame and that the choices you made throughout the series wouldn't change how things ended. A small part of me was really hoping otherwise.

My feelings on the ending. Hopefully they make sense, I wrote this while I was in a fit of rage:

Spoiler

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

Just take a look around at the general consensus on the internet, and you'll know why I hate the ending.

Here is one article that looks into it: http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-end...fans-are-right/

But, for the sake of discussion, here are some of my top reasons, in no particular order:

1) All three choices are the same. All that changes is the color of light shooting out from the Mass Relays, and whether or not Shepard can live.

2) Lack of discussion with Catalyst AI. Throughout the series, I have built my Shepard to be inquisitive. I've always been able to ask questions. And yet, with this AI, there isn't even the option. It all pretty much just plays out in a cut scene. So, you're telling me that Shepard isn't going to pry the Catalyst for a little knowledge? Ask it what it projects will happen for each option?

3) Bad logic. So, the Reapers exist to wipe out advanced organic life, so that synthetics don't destroy everything. I hate that the Reapers exist for that, I was hoping they'd be so much more intriguing, but whatever, can't change it. Anyway, their determination is completely nonsensical. Why anyone (the most advanced AI in the galaxy, for that matter) would believe their logic astounds me. So, how did this race of long ago determine this? Because what they created was going to wipe them out? So, they conclude:

a) That this will happen to every advanced race

That they will stop this by leaving people the Mass Relays and other technology they created. The same technology that inevitably LED to synthetics destroying organics. Prime example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The worst thing about this is you can't even make a case for yourself. I don't care if the Catalyst would have accepted the logic or not, the fact that Shepard can't make a case is idiotic. So, you have a human and AI relationship (Joker and EDI), and the Quarians and the Geth are now all buddy buddy. Hey, look, things won't always end how you think. There are anomalies, things could be different this time. But no, I don't even get to argue it.

Hell, they don't even let you make your case for the meaning of life. The idea of making choices and owning up to them. Instead, Shepard just sits there drooling and makes a choice that he has next to no information on. And who the hell is Shepard to choose whether or not ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY becomes a mix of synthetic and organic? How exactly does this Mass Relay pulse cause this?

4) The Catalyst Star Child. Minor complaint, but the scene would have been much more effective if it had been a Reaper voice, like Sovereign or Harbinger.

5) No closure. So, the Mass Relays blow up. Remember the last time that happened? 300,000 dead. So, Shepard probably just killed billions of people. But whatever, no need to go into that. No need even see a slight montage of the repercussions your actions will have. We'll just give you some stupid ending the a guy and his kid.

6) Joker and the crew. How did he get everyone? The power of friendship? Why was he doing a Mass Relay jump?

7) Your choices throughout the series do not bear any significance to the ending.

Straight from the Bioware Mass Effect 3 site:

Quote

Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.

Bullshit. My choices do not shape the outcome. The only thing that changes is Anderson living or dying and the condition of Earth. But in the end, I don't care about that. Those things really don't matter. A single character living, and the survival of a planet that, until this game, had zero significance to me?


I'll stop there for now. I could rant for hours.

It's really such a shame. The ending scene with Shepard on the citadel, bruised and bloody and torn apart, with the battle for Earth going on right outside is amazingly well done. The music is stellar. The entire moment is just ruined by poor writing. I'm not upset that things were rather tragic - hell, I read that originally Garrus and Liara were supposed to be killed by Harbinger at the end, but Shepard has to continue on without even a backward glance because completing his mission is paramount. Heart wrenching stuff.

I'm frustrated that it doesn't make sense. I don't need a golden ending where I ride away in golden armor riding unicorn with Liara. I just want something logical, something that fits with the themes of the series, something that takes into account the choices you made, something that provides at least a small amount of closure. Bioware promised our questions would be answered, but instead they just created more questions.

You know you're doing something wrong when fans have raised nearly $50,000 for charity in just two days to protest the ending.

IMHO:

Spoiler

The biggest plothole for me is that the Catalyst even exists. Apparently, the same entities that created the Reapers created a loophole to defeat them. Either that is very magnamacious, or cartoon-villain stupidity.
As for the choices: be glad you got choices at all. If I hadn't known there were 3 endings, I'd have been fine with one massive explosion that destroyed the Sol system and everything in and around it, exterminating 99% of what remains of the human race after all the colonies have been overrun over the course of the game.

I mean, really, you go to Earth, hope to connect the Catalyst to the Device and then magic happens and the reapers are defeated. Ehm, what? They're metal and technology - like every space ship out there. If there was a self-destruct button that would work, it seems logical that it would sacrifice everyone in the battle as well if it was an explosion, and overload all technology if it was some sort of awesome EMP or virus. That is essentially the Red Ending only making slightly less sense because they have to factor player choice into the matter.

The blue ending makes equal sense - become the main Reaper AI if only for a moment and override their commands to withdraw them from the Galaxy, perhaps even using them as an army to defend the milky way from big bads from beyond it. The only two bits that don't make sense there are the spontanity of it all, considering how long it takes to create a Reaper (but I guess Shep could upload herself like Legion did in the Geth fighter base bit) or even replace the Catalyst as a digital thingummy.
As for Shepard being the deciding being: the same was done by the Geth in ME2, and they allowed Shep to alter their programming in 3 again. I don't hear anyone complaining about that despite it being an overriding of the species' free will. With that in mind, there's precedent, I'd say.

The Green ending's issues are how this symbiosis comes to pass and how babies will get their tech implants - but it is once more rather logical as a solution - the ultimate expression of liberté, fraternité et egalité and the end-all to the question if creators are superior to created (ehm, no, as Geth and EDI prove) until someone builds a super computer to bind them all in darkness - all hail Empress EDI the First and Only.
Another issue is why the Reapers were still exterminated. They'll never be organic but symbiosis ought to be possible, still.

In all game endings, the destruction of the mass relays is a bit idiotic, but oh well, I can live with that. The Mass Effect technology is still known, mini-relays ought to be able to be constructed from salvaged (Reaper) tech reasonably soon.

I really don't see how the game ought to end apart from massive explosions destroying everything. As much as I'd like a sugary ending where there is a little krogan called Lucille (guess that just for the option of a boy krogan called Sue that will have to be the next fem-shep name), and what kind of odd creature a cross-over between Tali and Garrus would produce, but I think the personal endings are rather self-explanatory anyhow.

As for the Stargazer + child sequence: I think it was there for two purposes.
1, to show Shepard became The Shepard, protector-hero of the human race/ the galaxy/ god-figure.
2, as a tribute to those who lived our dream for galactic travel (and thereby, the Mass Effect and other sci-fi settings) - hence asking Buzz Aldrin to do the voice. It is a fitting tribute by the devs, and not so much an effect of the players on the story, and perhaps it is not even primarily there for the players.

[Obdigore]

Ahem. There is a theory going around that
(Endings Spoiler)

Spoiler

the ending after the mad rush for the beam is you being indoctrinated by the dreadnaught who zapped your party. There are quite a few facts that would lend support to this, and I'm going to go over the couple that I remember.

1) The kid you see in the opening and that you have dreams about is not interacted with any other person in the game. He appears after Anderson leaves the room and disappears when Anderson comes back. When he is climbing on the shuttle, no one helps him or interacts with him at all. It is suggested that this is some sort of warning system in the implants that TIM put in you to help you fight against indoctrination.

2) After getting 'zapped' by the laser, you hear clearly over a radio that no one survived. It is guessed that is pushing into your consciousness from one of the Mako-tank things that were rushing with you.

3) Anderson is on the citadel already? How did he make it when everyone was getting fried?

4) The pistol you pick up has unlimited ammo. Just like the geth cyberspace weapon.

5) Whatever ending you take, you see the Normandy fleeing in hyperspace before crashlanding and having people (some of whom were on the planet with you, and joker who has brittle bone disease) emerge looking unharmed.

6) The Red Ending, assuming you had enough military strength, has you surviving and shows a cutscene of someone with N7 on their arm moving that arm under chunks of concrete.

7) Underneath the 'catalysts' voice, you can hear female or male shepards voice (depending on which one you are).

8) When you get to the Catalyst, the first thing he says, if you have enough military strength to survive the red ending is 'wake up'.

Anyway it is suggested that either reaper control or synthises is giving in to the indoctrination, whereas destroy is you rejecting it and you are either killed, or your military strength is strong enough that they drive the reaper back before it can kill you, apparently.

[Gothos]

Spoiler

All in all though, that final rush for the teleporter was fucking awesome. I don't think I've ever seen such a desperate moment in gaming. I was screaming "SHIT SHIT SHIT NOOOOOOO DON'T DO THIS TO ME DAMMIT!" in my head all the while.

[Tapper]

Obdigore, on 16 March 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Ahem. There is a theory going around that
(Endings Spoiler)

Spoiler

the ending after the mad rush for the beam is you being indoctrinated by the dreadnaught who zapped your party. There are quite a few facts that would lend support to this, and I'm going to go over the couple that I remember.

1) The kid you see in the opening and that you have dreams about is not interacted with any other person in the game. He appears after Anderson leaves the room and disappears when Anderson comes back. When he is climbing on the shuttle, no one helps him or interacts with him at all. It is suggested that this is some sort of warning system in the implants that TIM put in you to help you fight against indoctrination.

2) After getting 'zapped' by the laser, you hear clearly over a radio that no one survived. It is guessed that is pushing into your consciousness from one of the Mako-tank things that were rushing with you.

3) Anderson is on the citadel already? How did he make it when everyone was getting fried?

4) The pistol you pick up has unlimited ammo. Just like the geth cyberspace weapon.

5) Whatever ending you take, you see the Normandy fleeing in hyperspace before crashlanding and having people (some of whom were on the planet with you, and joker who has brittle bone disease) emerge looking unharmed.

6) The Red Ending, assuming you had enough military strength, has you surviving and shows a cutscene of someone with N7 on their arm moving that arm under chunks of concrete.

7) Underneath the 'catalysts' voice, you can hear female or male shepards voice (depending on which one you are).

8) When you get to the Catalyst, the first thing he says, if you have enough military strength to survive the red ending is 'wake up'.

Anyway it is suggested that either reaper control or synthises is giving in to the indoctrination, whereas destroy is you rejecting it and you are either killed, or your military strength is strong enough that they drive the reaper back before it can kill you, apparently.

Heh. I guess I'll have to go back and load that ending, then

[Obdigore]

Aye, that is the ending I would take if I was getting any DLC or anything for the story.

anyway

Spoiler

If you are unable to be taken over, and that galaxys massed military might pushes the reapers back, does that mean that they will then sue for peace since the biologicals are strong enough to prevent the constructs from slaughtering them? It does open up some ... interesting... thoughts on what happens next, if you go with the indoctrination theory

[Tapper]

Obdigore, on 16 March 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Aye, that is the ending I would take if I was getting any DLC or anything for the story.

anyway

Spoiler

If you are unable to be taken over, and that galaxys massed military might pushes the reapers back, does that mean that they will then sue for peace since the biologicals are strong enough to prevent the constructs from slaughtering them? It does open up some ... interesting... thoughts on what happens next, if you go with the indoctrination theory

It does provide plenty of reason for ME3 DLC.

[Gothos]

Hudson already said that whatever they'll be doing further in ME at all will happen during or before ME3.

That's the stated plan anyway. We were also supposed to get 16 different endings. This might change.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

I just wanted to say that as I've yet to play the game, so have not been opening any of the spoilers, this thread is thoroughly amusing me

[Morgoth]

I finished and I feel as sad as when I finished tCG. The story is over

I'm not entirely decided on what I thought of the ending yet.


... and christ, this was the most intense gaming experience I've ever had.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 16 March 2012 - 06:06 PM

[Loki]

Ending DLC to address fans complaints...

 i-dfFJj7N-X2.jpg (134.66K)
Number of downloads: 2

[Defiance]

Great document detailing the overwhelming number of plot holes and logical fallacies in the ending.

This post has been edited by Defiance: 18 March 2012 - 07:47 AM

[Gothos]

The multiplayer...

*swallows hardly*
*looks around*
*hangs head in shame*

The multiplayers.... is.....


it's pretty fun.