[Imperial Historian]

Hooray for the prologue! Thanks a lot Hetan.

Looking through it looks like we've got a great book to come, the shattering of dragnipur, karsa's return and possibly darujhistan and the tyrant.

As to major talking point's which seem to have cropped up, I suspect we haven't met the two dead people but it could go either way, the hooded figure is almost certainly hood with the strong suggestion from the surroundings linking him to death, but the you have summoned me here suggests it could be cotillion as as far as we know the only ones with any power in shadow to command edgewalker are shadowthrone and cotillion.
I'm also sceptical of the stranger=dukier theory, as if he was dukier Kruppe knows who he is and henceforth he isn't a stranger, the line 'tells the story of our kind' seems to be a reference to travellers/wanderers or something sitting around a campfire, not to him being an elder god. And if kruppe is a god not a mortal ill be very surprised.

Oh and I'm surprised more people haven't had timeline whiplash from the karsa's daughters bit, either the entire beginning of HoC and its recount of the teblor lifespan is wrong, or SE's managed to squeeze in around 80 years in by my guess around 10 years... which is impressive even for SE. That said I'm settling for happyily ignoring it for now, as it does sound like it could be cool.

[Silencer]

Yeah, I liked it!
Perhaps the Teblor women reach adult-hood earlier than Teblor men? Still, I think that bit is out-of-whack, but the whole Teblor thing gives me the feeling of something that is continuing to evolve...

So: We found out where Apsalar is.
Edgewalker, Shadowthrone, and Hood/Cotillion (/K'rul? He is supposed to look like Hood), had a meeting in a random place. Witnessed by two strangers, who we don't think we know (although, given the jade rain, the male could be Heboric, as he claims to be a priest). The last guest was announced by the sounds of a wagon, so possibly Draconus, or a Trygalle Trade member.
Apparently Kruppe is stepping up his act, based on the last part of that scene - "Have you ever seen me dance?"
Gods it was all so good! Lots of other stuff that is currently swimming in my head.....arg!

[Illuyankas]

The Teblor girls were described as toddlers, so maybe they get named as children.

[D'rek]

Fun stuff. Time to address the prevading thingamajigs occuring in this thread:

1. Karsa's girls time differential:
There's a very possible difference between becoming an "adult" and "coming of age". In human standards, think "coming of age" is when you reach true puberty and become a man/woman --> sometime around 11 for girls and 13 for boys. Then becoming an adult would be the equivalent of turning 18 for us, a fully fledged member of the society, able to participate in all the social aspects. Perhaps Karsa was about to become an adult in HoC but these girls are just "coming of age".

2. Jade rain:
Suggested by a couple but I just wanted to add my support to the idea that, following the impact of the jade stars and Heboric's assuming the pain of the souls within, this jade rain is now falling into Hood's realm and thereby transfering those souls from Heboric to Deadland. Just like the pain of the T'lan Imass into the Mhybe's dreamworld through Itkovian in MoI.

3. Apsalar an Imass?:
I'm sure they would've described her the usual T'lan Imass way if she were one. I think it's likely she was an ascended Imass before the ritual and thereby unaffected by it.

4. Edgewalker Mitigation:

Mitigate:
–verb
1. to lessen in force or intensity, as wrath, grief, harshness, or pain; moderate.
2. to make less severe: to mitigate a punishment.
3. to make (a person, one's state of mind, disposition, etc.) milder or more gentle; mollify; appease.
4. to become milder; lessen in severity.

Here's a crazy theory: Edgewalker is the ancient God of Justice and Punishment. He last had worshippers at the time of the Just Wars, but hasn't since due to the result of said events. He is still called upon to occasionally act in his aspected role among the gods. I think this would fit in nicely with the idea that he was trying to take over KE/shadow realm and with his connections with imprisoned folk like the dragons.

That's all I got for now, thanks a bunch for everything Hetan!!!

[Nequam]

Personally I really hope they aren't Karsa's daughters, but just Teblor women. I don't know why, but I just really, really don't care about the children of Karsa's rape victims...

[Silencer]

Good point skir!
The two could be different. Although I think it likely that we just have a Teblor-ism, as even Karsa's age went a bit up-and-down during HoC. It's a minor discrepancy really though.
@Nequam, no, his daughters would make for an interesting dynamic, particularly in relation to his return. I am fairly sure that we can all agree about the mother and her daughter (the crying one) being the two that Karsa raped, and the girls are described as being the pair's daughters.

[ShadowOwl]

Thank you Hetan! Awesome!
So many different views to contemplate! I wonder if the two people at the beginning were members of the murdered Edur royal line, since it seems to take place in a fragment of Shadow, locked in time. Not sure what the importance of that would be, but SE always has a reason.

[Optimus Prime]

Nequam;266256 said:

Personally I really hope they aren't Karsa's daughters, but just Teblor women. I don't know why, but I just really, really don't care about the children of Karsa's rape victims...

It may be hard to swallow, but if I remember correctly, the older woman at least realized Karsa's "greatness" and was attracted to him in some way.

They are definitely Karsa's daughters...it even mentioned that the mothers of the two girls were a mother/daughter tandem....coincidence? I think not.

I'm just curious about what is going to happen once Dragnipur is shattered....all souls released? Or is it something much more complicated than that?

[QuickTidal]

Thanks Hetan!!!

Woot.

Here's what's funny. Upon 1 read through, I only caught on to a few things, and all you peeps picked up on WAY more than me.

I really did think the priest was Heboric too at first. Not sure who the woman is, but as someone stated, we may not have met her yet.

The Dragnipur stuff was bloody brilliant! Very disjointed, and obscure in some bits, but on the whole I'm sure we find out later. SE likes to do the whole "Give us a prologue that doesn't make full sense till the end" kind of deal, so this is likely no different.

Oh, and can I say how I like we've coined "Dragnipur'ed" as a verb? LOL

Karsa's daughters. Loves it. I completely forgot about Gnaw, and at first I also thought the dog was Bent (how many damn scarred dogs are gonna be in this series?), and then of course you realize they mention the Uryd, and Bent wouldn't be there, but I admit that even the broken hip didn't clue me in to Gnaw. It's been an awfully long time since I read HOC. LOL

Apsalara is way cool, and I LOVE that she's doing as little work as possible, but still trying to escape the sword......or keep her sanity at any rate.....loves it. Typical of the Lady of Thieves....stealing the "work" of all the other chained ones so she doesn't have to do it any longer.

Welcome back Mr. Kruppe.....we missed you (<---said like Agent Smith). I am in the whole Kruppe fan boat. I admit to his annoying me for patches of MOI, but in the long run he's a cool character and it's nice to be back in his world. I am also of the mind that the gaunt, grey-haired gentleman is Duiker, and he is even more welcome back than Kruppe in my mind! Woot for Krul's Bar and the BB's baby!!

Lastly.....I find it awesome that ANY time Hood's name is mentioned, even in passing about him being in the first section of the prologue and that being Hood's realm (or a part of it).....there is an offshoot about whether or not he is a Jaghut.....every....damned...time. LOL!!

So excited to read the rest now!

[Optimus Prime]

This has only made me more determined to create a time machine and fast forward to when the book is in my hands...

Where is my damn Flux Capacitor?!?!

I wonder if Gnaw has any special abilities now? Besides sensing Karsa of course.

[QuickTidal]

Xander;266300 said:

Where is my damn Flux Capacitor?!?!

It makes time travel possible.

[Jimmy]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but I thought all the wizards from Pale were beheaded by Baruk, rather than let Rake use Dragnipur on them?

[Mentalist]

QuickTidal;266297 said:

Oh, and can I say how I like we've coined "Dragnipur'ed" as a verb? LOL

thank you. I would like to take the credit for that one.

[Kurt Montandon]

Jimmy;266326 said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned but I thought all the wizards from Pale were beheaded by Baruk, rather than let Rake use Dragnipur on them?

Rake personally tracked down all but two, who were the ones delivered to him by Baruk.

[Zanth13]

Jimmy;266326 said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned but I thought all the wizards from Pale were beheaded by Baruk, rather than let Rake use Dragnipur on them?

I mentioned that in my first post, and thats what I thought aswell...

but xanders stated that Rake got some of them himself, (though he didnt back it up with QUOTES damn him)

So it makes since that Rake hunted down the ones he could, then propositioned baruk to get the rest....

I guess the stranger with Kruppe could have been Cotillion... I think it is Duiker myself... but the only other person I can think of who would have a pained expression would be the rope... maybe Traveller...or Dassem even (see what I did there )

[Kurt Montandon]

Zanth13;266338 said:

I mentioned that in my first post, and thats what I thought aswell...

but xanders stated that Rake got some of them himself, (though he didnt back it up with QUOTES damn him)

GotM pp. 201, paperback:

Quote

"I pulled the Moon back mere minutes from its destruction. I left it to drift south and went after those wizards."
"After them?"
"I tracked down all but two." Rake gazed at Baruk. "I want those two, preferably alive, but their heads will suffice."
"You killed those you found? How?"
"With my sword, of course."

[Zanth13]

kmmontandon;266339 said:

GotM pp. 201, paperback:

Awsome... nice quote... I had forgotten all about that....

It never amazes me how SE pulls details from other books and makes them important...it actually shows up allot in this prologue

[Optimus Prime]

Zanth13;266338 said:

I mentioned that in my first post, and thats what I thought aswell...

but xanders stated that Rake got some of them himself, (though he didnt back it up with QUOTES damn him)

So it makes since that Rake hunted down the ones he could, then propositioned baruk to get the rest....

I guess the stranger with Kruppe could have been Cotillion... I think it is Duiker myself... but the only other person I can think of who would have a pained expression would be the rope... maybe Traveller...or Dassem even (see what I did there )

But Zanthy, I dont' have my copy of GotM

Rake told Baruk that he got all but two as I recall, and then chuckled over the fact that Baruk got so queasy at the thought of those mages being fed to Dragnipur...something about being too merciful.

It was something of a initial offering in their working together that led to Baruk bringing him the other two heads. Showed Rake that Baruk was on his side but also showed Baruk that Rake trusted him to take care of the shit.

[Zanth13]

Xander;266344 said:

But Zanthy, I dont' have my copy of GotM

Rake told Baruk that he got all but two as I recall, and then chuckled over the fact that Baruk got so queasy at the thought of those mages being fed to Dragnipur...something about being too merciful.

It was something of a initial offering in their working together that led to Baruk bringing him the other two heads. Showed Rake that Baruk was on his side but also showed Baruk that Rake trusted him to take care of the shit.

Also showed that Baruk could be a dangerous mutha when he wants to be... taking the head of two mages is never to be taken lightly....

what was interesting was how the demon was helping people as well... thought that was cool...also he went off to find Draconus, hopefully we get to see that conversation....

YOU know I think choas might just catch up with them in this book...and who knows what will happen then

[Optimus Prime]

Oh I definitely think that Chaos will catch up, no doubt in my mind.

I keep going back to Edgewalker....and I keep wanting to slam my head into the wall because I just...don't....understand...what...his...deal.....is.