[Quick~]

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I'm gonna say K'rul, if anything, is the God of ORDER.

I think the Errant probably fits this better but...

it'd be interesting if K'rul was the god of order, and also if he had any ties with the Forkrul Assail (For K'rul ¬_¬). I mean they saw themselves as the keepers of balance which isn't that far off from order. We know they died out and we know K'ruls worship did the same (although obviously it was far spanning with a belfry in the very human city of darujhistan)

basically I don't really believe anything of what I said but it sort of stumbled into my head briefly whilst reading the last few posts.

[Skywalker]

Aptorian;260049 said:

According to Letherii mythology I's have pegged an elemental force called the Errant as the God of Order.

(snip)On another note, you think Mocra is a he? I imagined it as a she

The Errant isn't the God of Order - he is Master of the Tiles, yes, but isn't interested in either order or chaos... the Forkrul Assail opposed him because of his tendency to be capricious/ whimsical in his nudging.

On another note, I never used a pronoun to refer to Mockra in my post... I do know Mockra is a she

[Aptorian]

I was referring to the theory that the one eyed errant from Lether, has merely taken the aspect of a considerably greater force, the Errant power mentioned that made order out fire and... fulcra or something? I don't remember the words of the myth.

[Abyss]

Skywalker;260052 said:

The Errant isn't the God of Order - he is Master of the Tiles, yes, but isn't interested in either order or chaos... the Forkrul Assail opposed him because of his tendency to be capricious/ whimsical in his nudging...

According to Ganath in TB, he WAS the Master of the Tiles, but his worshippers shifted his aspect from 'balance' to luck' (push/pull/nudge/nudge/wink/wink), not 'order'.

And i don't recall a statement that the FA ever opposed him. Strictly speaking, they would have been mostly extinct by the time he was in power (ie: there were no tiles back when Silch was busy wiping out the FA), but the FA were also aspected to 'balance' of sorts, hence why in MT the Errant and FA are linked in the Tiles.



- Abyss, unbalanced.

[Aptorian]

I think it's Ganath that specifically mentions the FA and the Errant attempting to kill each other. So they certainly weren't friends at the least.

[Abyss]

Aptorian;260059 said:

I think it's Ganath that specifically mentions the FA and the Errant attempting to kill each other....

Someone quote fu this... i'm blanking.

- Abyss, fires up the VAISKI SIGNAL....

[Aptorian]

Aptorian to the rescue! Found it on page 339 BH.

Ganath speaking:

Quote

"The Errant's enemy was ennui, stagnation. This is why the Forkrul Assail sought to annihalate him."

[ShadowOwl]

I seem to recall it is in one of Undinaas's dreams with the Errant and Menadore when U banishes them from his dream. Menadore is walking over the FA bodies telling the Errant to stop whining, he killed them all. Something like that. Will look for exact quote if needed -is in RG

[Abyss]

Aptorian;260141 said:

Aptorian to the rescue! Found it ...:

Your quote fu is strong and merits rep.

Which of course raises the issue of just how far back the Errant and the Tiles actually go, given the apprent extinction of the FA circa the Tiste/KC Matron conflict.

Unless of course Silch missed a bunch of them, or there just weren't actually that many trying to take out the Errant.

- Abyss, debalanced....

[Aptorian]

The Errant is most likely a human and heralds from the First Empire.

I'm sure that there are still some Forkrul Assail left, only most of them are burried or left the world of Wu for the same reasons the KCCM and the Jaghut disappeared.

[Abyss]

Aptorian;260180 said:

The Errant is most likely a human and heralds from the First Empire....

Sure, but to the best of my uncertain reasoning, the human First Empire didn't show up until a few hundred millenia AFTER Silch's attempted FA extinction.

Tho of course the Errant could have existed in a different form before them.

That said, we've seen Calm and co, so we know there are a few FA lurking around, and it's not like Silch had time to finish the job between fighting the KC, dealing with the KN and so on... plus the whole Just Wars thing.... and the continent of Assail thing... okay, it's workable.


- Abyss, accepts divergent realities...

[Wry]

Hmm just thinking back to the Errants brooding session in RG, around the time he bumps into the pig in the basement, he is talking about how he went out into the world to try to make things better and his worshippers not liking it. Is it possible that the FA were his worshippers and this led to the fighting? Or this shift from passive to active god prompted the FA to take him on.

Just a wondering...

[Aptorian]

Holy crap I think I just found something that sows doubt about the Errants origin. There's also some info on his followers:

Ganath talking again: p. 339 BH

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"He was an ascendant, Ganoes Paran. Worshipped as a god by enclaves of Imass, Barghast, Trell. They kept his mouth filled with blood. He never knew thirst. Nor peace. I wonder how he fell."
I think I'd like to know that detail myself," Paran said, shaken by the Jaghuts words. "No-one worships me, Ganath."
"They will. You are newly ascended. Even in this world of yours, I am certain that there is no shortage of followers, of those who are desperate to believe. And they will hunt down others and make of them victims. They will cut them and fill bowls with their innocent blood, in your name, Ganoes Paran, and so beseech your intercession, your adherence to whatever cause they righteously fashion. The Errant thought to defeat them, as you might well seek to do, and so he became the god of change. He walked the path of neutrality, yet flavoured it with a pleasure taken in impermanance.

Then comes the Forkrull Assaul quote from above.

To me this make me wonder when the Humans emerged and when the Imass enclaves finally disappeared.

[pastures]

great post Skywalker. i think dreams is just (one of) his means of communication right now. not that he is the god of dreams. he could be the god of magical dreams though, seeing as how he is very closely linked to magic.

Apt: Only an avatar? Aren't they more like the embodiment/incarnation of that natural force? Hence, their "immortal bodies/souls"?

[Mentalist]

hmmm..
Stirring us back to the warrens as parts of K'rul's body subtopic, and Mockra in particular, here's this lovely DG quote (I'm currently on a re-read)

"Altough he sat within arm's reach of the tattoed old man, Kulp could sense his own warren. It felt ready - almost eager - for release. The mage was frightened. Meanas was a remote warren and every fellow practicioner Kulp had met charaterised it the same way: cool,detached, amused intelligence .... Accessing the warren always had a feel of interupting a power busy with other things. As if shaping a small fraction of that power was a distraction barely worth acknowledging. (DG, mmpb, pg325)

The italics were mine own. makes one question (once again, for the nth time) the nature of the warrens.

Come to think of it, if there's only one question I could get resolved out of the entire MBotF, it's a clear cut explanation of just what exactly are warrens..

[pastures]

hmmm... maybe the patron god(s) are the source that its users draw from? well not exactly the source (the warren is the source), but more like the gatekeeper of the power.

[Mentalist]

so then how do you explain mockra talking to Seren in RG? who was the "patron god"

also, Shdowthrone does NOT strike me as the "cool, detached type"

[pastures]

well i think ST cldnt care less about what his followers do, cos he's too busy doing his own more impt stuff (and stuff other pple do is stupid to him).

i dont know who Mockra is... cld by anything... maybe a demon placeholder like for Kurald Liosan...

[Sinisdar Toste]

i should think the cool detached persona of maenas would be the mind of the dragon(s) that are aspected to it.

[pastures]

ah yes. excellent point, Sin. i wasnt thinking straight.