[Skywalker]

pastures;260245 said:

great post Skywalker. i think dreams is just (one of) his means of communication right now. not that he is the god of dreams. he could be the god of magical dreams though, seeing as how he is very closely linked to magic.

Thanks Pastures...

@kud - nice quote...

So I guess we are pretty much decided that warrens are K'rul's veins "in dialogue" with dragons?

[pastures]

i thought it was a single entity...

[Skywalker]

Nope... one dragon per warren. So the dragons Cotillion met in TB when with Edgewalker were all corresponding to warrens... Mockra is a dragon... so's the now dead Sorrit, who was the Serc warren.

[Mentalist]

Ah, but there are isssues with that
in tBH when Cotillion's taling to th dragons, doesn't one of themsay that he shaped several warrens for K'rul
Also, in the KCNR skykeep with dead sorrit, doesn't Iccy say that she was one of the 2 guardians of Serc?

sorry, don't have my tBH on me, can only paraphrase...

[Abyss]

The distinction is possible... Sorrit may have been the only PUREBLOOD Eleint aspected to Serc, while Osserc is soletaken. I don't know whether that's significant, but there it is.

Plus, unknown is whether Ossi is ALSO aspected to Kurald Thyrllan, Kurald Liosan, and/or Starvald Demelain - for that matter, wouldn't all dragons, pureblood or soletaken, be aspected to SD?

And that said, one wonders how Krull raised enough power to basically reshape the warrens, elder and/or modern, even with dragon assistance. Perhaps he burned himself out, hence the long absence and subsequent change to his aspect.

Also, I wonder why was he preaching to the thieves on Genabackis in MoI - it seemed like a strange way to be opposing the Pannion Seer and i really wonder what if any his agenda was there.

- Abyss, notes that in this instance, not even the shadow knows...

[Aptorian]

I remember a quote that said that all Soletaken Elient recieved all the power of the dragons. So logically any soletaken dragons should be able to unleash SD.

As for Keruli and the criminals in MoI. That was pure sabotage and propaganda he was enlisting them to do. Kill the Domins priests, spread counter-propaganda, halt the Domins armies through sabotage if that eventually becomes necessary.

[Abyss]

Aptorian;260725 said:

I remember a quote that said that all Soletaken Elient recieved all the power of the dragons. So logically any soletaken dragons should be able to unleash SD.

Logically, yes, but note none of the chained dragons mentioned that to Cotillion, nor did Iccy mention it when mourning Sorrit.Generally the Mommy D spawned soletaken seem to be more powerful than the purebloods - ie: Rake - but Korlat and co are described as smaller than Silanah in GotM, so it would seem there's no sure power scale to rely on other than that Rake was powerful enough to chain the three we saw.

(That's not an invitation to a ho'd win, btw - the answer is Wolverine: move along)

Aptorian;260725 said:

As for Keruli and the criminals in MoI. That was pure sabotage and propaganda he was enlisting them to do. Kill the Domins priests, spread counter-propaganda, halt the Domins armies through sabotage if that eventually becomes necessary.

Yes, but WHY? The Domin was conquering cities by subversion (Coral) or dinner. It seemed odd that Krull was fostering this and i had to wonder whether he had an alternate agenda.

- Abyss, loves a good subversive agenda....

[Mentalist]

Yet ANOTHER point about the warrens (clearly, i'm obcessed)

K'rul also created the Imperial warren--taking the top layer of the blasted jacuruku and making it into a separate world, superimposed on most of Wu
And that clearly did not involve a dragon, unless we cound K'rul and Draconus as the 2 Soletaken...

[D'rek]

Thread's been dead for a bit, but I recently read something relevant in MoI:

Quote

Lady Envy: "Of course I will! Garath is my beloved companion, after all. Even if he once tried to pee on my robe - though I will acknowledge that since he was asleep at the time it was probably one of K'rul's pranks. ..."

[Mentalist]

hmm
well, K'rul's been playing with dreams before
MoI, mmpb, pg 308-309-- Baaljag's memories

she meets an Elder God, he takes her and gives her "a gift"
'The pup closed her eyes, sank into a deep sleep and found herself no longer alone. Loping acroos vast tundras, in the company of her own kind. An eternity of loving dreams, secured with joy, a gift made bitter only by the waking hours, waking years, centuries, millenia spent.... alone. "

also, since Baaljag is the wolf pup whose family we see in hte first page of the prologue, we can assume K'rul was already around 298, 655 years before Burn's Sleep.

[Aptorian]

What? Baaljag shows up as a pup in the prologue? Where? Is there a beast in the company of the Imass? Because dogs haven't evolved yet at that point, me thinks...

[stejen]

Baaljag is an ay not a dog

the dog is Garath

[Mentalist]

@ Apt--the very first two pages of MoI prologue have Pran Chole in the flesh stare at 6 ay and a ranag who fell in the mud/quicksand/tar of Jagra Til, and got petrified there, with the track of a single youn ay of the pact running off into the wilderness. It makes him reflect on futility, fate and such.
Apparently the same ay pup is picked up by K'rul who somehow predicts that he'll need its body to store Fanderay's soul several thousands years later...

[Aptorian]

That is freaking amazing, what you can't learn on a re-read... or on this forum for that matter.

[MagustheDarkLord]

Though I like the idea i have to say that i doubt that K'rul is the God of Dreaming. He is the Elder God of the Warrens. He is the blood that powers all of the lesser warrens. It is said in BH or RG that there were warrens before his ( i.e. the Elder Warrens). But when you think about it, dreaming is a key piece in accessing the warrens. All magic is shaped by the caster with his/her/its mind. So, would it not be logically to assume that dreaming, having to do with your brain directly, is just a type of soccery? Like in your dreams you fashion minature warrens where your dreams take place. The only people that doesn't apply to is Elient and Soletaken dragons who have Hood-damned gates in the their mouths.

Just a thought though...

[Abyss]

Aptorian;266087 said:

That is freaking amazing, what you can't learn on a re-read... or on this forum for that matter.

Seriously. It also ties very nicely into the dreaming mules as Krul's agents.

Even tho we know for a fact they are all actually Mules of Shadow and barely seconds away from killing everyone.

- Abyss, won't even start on the donkeygoth...

[Abyss]

MagustheDarkLord;272624 said:

Though I like the idea i have to say that i doubt that K'rul is the God of Dreaming. He is the Elder God of the Warrens....

Yes and no.
It appears that with the assistance of the pureblood eleint, Krul SHAPED the warrens. he didn't creat them, but he put them into a form humans would be able to acess without the sort of Hold Magic self-destruct we saw in Leth.

Also, in MoI, it's suggested that Krul has changed his aspect.

- Abyss, also, Mules... it's all about the Mules!!!!!!

[Skywalker]

Abyss;272876 said:

Yes and no.
It appears that with the assistance of the pureblood eleint, Krul SHAPED the warrens. he didn't creat them, but he put them into a form humans would be able to acess without the sort of Hold Magic self-destruct we saw in Leth.

I used to think so too... in fact I posted:

Skywalker;259040 said:

K'rul is called the Shaper of paths methinks... slight distinctions. He imposed control/ structure on preexisting power.

I don't think that is the case. He actually *created* the warrens with the help of dragons and so on.

Quoting Skir:

A said:

Maker of paths:

Originally Posted by GotM, p. 635
K'rul: "I was once a god," the figure replied. "Worshipped as K'rul, and my aspect was Obilisk. I am the Maker of Paths - do you find significance in that ancient title?"

Then I found some quotes of me own from Feather Witch's readings in MT:

Skywalker;259166 said:

Nice quote skir... I stand corrected. Rep to you!

He has been called Maker and Shaper it seems... and Shaper only in MT. This from Feather Witch's reading of the tiles:

"Then, to achieve balance once more, is born the Eleint, and chaos is given flesh, and that flesh is draconic. Ruled by the Queen, who must be slain again and again by every child she bears. And her Consort, who loves none but himself. Then Liege, servant and guardian and doomed to eternal failure. Knight, the very sword of chaos itself - 'ware his path! And Gate, that which is the Breath. Wyval, spawn of the dragons, and the Lady, the Sister, Blood-Drinker and Path-Shaper. The Fell Dragons. "

and,

"Locqui Wyval waits. The Lady and the Sister dance round each other, each on her own side of the world. Blood-Drinker waits as well, waits to be found. Path-Shaper knows fever in his fell blood and staggers on the edge of the precipice."