[Aztiel]

I've always thought that the KCCM were the actual enemy of the whole series, especially with the CG appearing not quite so evil in this last book. If you look at it one way, you could say that since CG is a foreign invader on the planet, and I think we established that KCCM were also invaders, he would be a natrual ally for them, but that would essentially mean all the fighting so far has been mere skirmishing, which would be rather disheartening.

[Optimus Prime]

It would be awesome to have the POV of a KCCM...perhaps a hunter or Matron...we know so little about their motives.

What about the Malazan Empire...with Laseen at its head...not exactly a "good guy".

[Skywalker]

Dolorous Menhir;234513 said:

The Bluerose are the remnants of Silchas Ruin's Tiste Andii. Scabby's betrayal didn't get them all.

Anomander's party came earlier, and they account for the Drift Avalii and Moon's Spawn Andii populations.

That's the only two Andii influxes I can think of.

Agree.

To add to this, I don't think Anomander's party was an 'invasion' per se... it was more like he had 'turned his back on Mother Dark' and gone AWOL... in the Malaz world he was more like a exile or a refugee. Also I don't think his party was in hundreds of thousands... more likely in hundreds (if not tens).

Remember that as far as Scabandari and Silchas were concerned, Anomander was lost. To quote the MT prologue, here is Scabandari talking about Anomander Rake:

Quote

Anomandaris Rake, who broke with his mother and with his kind. Who then vanished before I could deal with him. Vanished, probably never to be seen again.

And then there is the conversation between Gothos and Mael:

Quote

Gothos considered the Elder god’s words, then nodded. "I might at that. Very well, Mael. Go to Kilmandaros. Swat down this Tiste Eleint (Bloodeye) and scatter his people. But do it quickly."

Mael’s eyes narrowed. ‘Why?’

"Because I sense a distant awakening - but not, alas, as distant as you would like."

"Anomander Rake."

That makes me wonder... maybe Anomander Rake and Co weren't just in the Malaz world and in exile... maybe they found a comfortable spot and were in some sort of suspended animation too...

EDIT: To add further... if the Bluerose are the remnants of Ruin's party, it explains their (and Clip's) attitude to Rake as well... maybe they were waiting for him to come and rescue/ save them... and he never came... thus explaining the feeling of having been betrayed.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Xander;234518 said:

The Liosan fought the Just Wars against the Assail on Wu didn't they? Perhaps they attempted a similar invasion and upon discovering the ferocity of the races inhabiting Wu...retreated back to their Isolationist ways in their homeworld.

yes the liosan fought against the fokrul assail, and i suppose the liosan lost and returned to kurald thyrllan. but then i have to wonder, where the hell did the forkrul assail come from? and i really have no idea. any of the chosen ones know anything to shed some light?

[Optimus Prime]

I think they are a Founding Race...therefore considered native to Wu...right?

I thought the T'Lan Imass, FA, KCCM and Jaghut were the "Four Founding Races"...isn't that pretty much established...or does a race having its own warren mean they also have their own homeworld?

The Forkrul Assail wanted everything in balance...and when something disrupted that balance...they took action

[Lisheo]

The Jaghut arent native to Wu, tho, are they? I mean, according to Toc, they even had to steal Omtose from the Wolves. The KCCM definatly arent native, being the Spawn of the Dragons, who belong to Starvald Demelain, and the KCCM themselves might belong to Kaschan (corruption of Raschan, anyone?) ... The Eres are tho, its been mentioned they are the ones who belong to this world, when Bottles is examining Trull's pregnant Eres. The Imass, I'm not sure, but I suspect they are some kind of evolution of the Eres. Possibly the Nerek are the evolved Imass? So could the Imass be part Edur and part Eres? The FA, well, they are always mentioned as demons, but ones who belong to the world, and they dont seem to have warrens, so maybe they are truly native to Wu.

[Aptorian]

Lisheo;234789 said:

The Jaghut arent native to Wu, tho, are they? I mean, according to Toc, they even had to steal Omtose from the Wolves.

I think you are reading to much into one comment.

[Lisheo]

Aye, but also from what Ive heard of the Stormriders, tho I havent read NoK, they came from the Jaghut home realm? Although yeah, I dont really have enough info to back up my theory.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i dont think the imass have any edur in them lisheo. they just evolved from the eres who are like the "missing link" of our world. and humans evolved from imass, and i include the nerek in humanity tho they are more eres-like

[Optimus Prime]

Who says the Forkrul Assail don't have a warren? We don't know.

I had always thought that those four races were from and of Wu...the K'Chain are the firstborn of dragons but does that mean they were spawned in Starvald Demelain?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Adjunct Lorn referred to an FA warren in GotM. Only mention in the series.

[Sinisdar Toste]

sounds like a you know what ism

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah I don't have my copy of GotM handy...anybody know what DM is referring to?

I wonder what their warren is based on.

KCCM is gravity and sound right?

[Aptorian]

DM is talking about a scene where the Adjunct is talking or thinking about magic, she lists thelomen, Forkrul Assail and T'lan Imass warrens I think. The FA warren is supposedly aspected to earth magic... again, I think.

EDIT: Found the quote:

Quote

'The Warrens of the Imass are similar to those of the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail – Elder-, blood- and earthbound –'(GotM, UK Trade, p.204)

It does sound like a GotMism.

[Optimus Prime]

Hmmm...perhaps the manipulation of stone....or going with their "balance" theme...nature is part of their warren...

very interesting

[Sinisdar Toste]

it might be more accurate if we replaced FA with KC

[Aptorian]

Are you sure? KCCM magic is born of sound and vibration, air not earth.

[Optimus Prime]

If the KCCM are of air...perhaps the FA are indeed of the earth magics...

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think the problem is we havent seen any FA do anything except bust ass, they havent shown any need for warrens. unless they use their warrens like sukhul did against that soletaken imass bear, just unleashing power in their blows

[Lisheo]

Could the FA warren be Fire or Light? They did war with the Liosan for something after all...