[Lisheo]

The Jaghut have been watching for them, remember, to protect the Imass.

[Aptorian]

... to protect the Imass? The Jaghut are very forgiving if that is the case

[Mcflury]

well, the jaghut were never really intrested in war, so we can deduct from that they were a very friendly people... and friendly people easily forgive

[Aptorian]

Whooo... The Jaghut were a friendly people?

They couldn't live within a hundred miles of each other with out killing themselves and everything else that annoyed them. They disowned their children around Panions age. They laid waste to half the world a hundred times over.

I wish they were my neighbours.

[Mcflury]

weren't those just the tyrants who did that?
besides, all jaghut who have played in the series as of yet are rather friendly I believe... sure, they did some bad shit, but still friendly now (you know, everybody is grey in SEs world really, just like in real life by the way )

[Aptorian]

It was a general trait in their people that they sought dominance. That's why they all lived apart.

There probably has been cities but in general they didn't do well in a group. We've also heard that individual families shared a love and loyalty but that doesn't mean they lived together in a flock. For example there's the Jaghut area the chain of dogs travel through in DG. List explains how the rest of her family all came to the Jaghut mothers aid. They didn't live any where close to her.

Their icewinters didn't just kill Imass, think of the devastation. How many thousands or millions of species died in their rituals? How many friendly or unknowing people just got taken out in the walls of ice the jaghut erected?

The Tyrants was just partuclarly cruel creatures

[Lisheo]

But according to pretty much every KCCM and/vs Jaghut reference in the books, the KCCM were to the Jaghut what the Tyrants were to the Imass, and the Jaghut protected the Imass, and "Gave them fire". I dont view the Jaghut as cruel. I view em as being a little bit on the not-able-to-understand-full-effects ppl. They practically couldnt die, and they were born with so much power, in fairness, its not like they could really relate to the weak Imass or Eres's suffering. The Jaghut were more indiffferent than anything. Selfabsorbed, like Gothos's Folly was a little vain, for example, a perfect summary of most Jaghut we've seen. But I think they were an essentially good ppl, going about sealing away things that were far too strong for the Imass to tackle. If they were really evil they'd just have wiped out every Imass on Wu, with one huge ice ritual.

[Aptorian]

They did wipe out the Imass with a big Ice ritual, hence the tellan ritual to survive.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

[Skywalker]

*Some* Jaghut were tyrants and loved to enslave other Jaghut and Imass and so on. To avoid the temptation of tyranny, the Jaghut society became a society of loners - and then the remaining tyrants enslaved Imass in greater numbers.

The Imass were understandably fed-up of this and started rising up against th Jaghut. But their war against the Jaghut quickly became a widespread genocide (it was already that way by the time Pran Chole's troupe were chasing Pannion's mother near Morn).

The Jaghut answer to everything - ice - was the response the Imass got from the fleeing Jaghut. They couldn't survive in face of such mighty Omtose Phellack sorcery, and so the T'lan ritual was as much a desperation move as it was an act of unparalleled racism/ hatred.

So really the Jaghut and the Imass are both Tyrants in their own way... I took that as one of the messages in MOI.

Some Jaghut were tyrants in truth, while most Imass became their own tyrants in this mad quest to commit genocide. By the time of the Second Gathering, most T'lan Imass were fed up of it... as Kruppe pointed out, they wanted release from the ritual regardless of whether there were still Jaghut left to kill (which would actually be a violation of their vow)

EDIT: And before Apt says 'quote or it didn't happen'...

MOI Chapter 19 said:

"A moment, if you please!" Kruppe said, edging another step forward. Silverfox hissed in exasperation but the Daru continued. "Pran Chole, do you recall worthy Kruppe?"
"I do."
"Worthy, clever Kruppe, yes? You said you know of but one Jaghut. No doubt accurate enough. None the less, saying such is not quite the same as saying there is but one left, is it? Thus, you are not certain, are you?"
Olar Ethil replied. "Mortal, other Jaghut remain. Isolated. Hidden — they have learned to hide very well indeed. We believe they exist, but we cannot find them."
"Yet you seek an official end to the war, do you not?"
A susurration of motion rippled through the undead ranks.
Silverfox wheeled on him. "How did you know, damn you?"
Kruppe shrugged. "Sorrow unsurpassed and unsurpassing. They in truth seek to become dust. Had they eyes, Kruppe would see the truth no plainer writ. The T'lan Imass wish oblivion."

[Aptorian]

No need for Quotes. I belives you.

[Mentalist]

Aptorian;239013 said:

No need for Quotes. I belives you.

YE GODS!!! it's the Apocalypse!!!!

[Sinisdar Toste]

sky_walker;238995 said:

The Jaghut answer to everything - ice - was the response the Imass got from the fleeing Jaghut. They couldn't survive in face of such mighty Omtose Phellack sorcery, and so the T'lan ritual was as much a desperation move as it was an act of unparalleled racism/ hatred.

if its true the jaghut did try to ice away all of the imass, which i dont doubt, it really clears up that "WTF were the imass thinking?" question that was bandied about awhile back. absolute sacrifice and all that

[QUOTE=sky_walker;238995]So really the Jaghut and the Imass are both Tyrants in their own way... I took that as one of the messages in MOI.[QUOTE]

couldn't agree more

[Lisheo]

Haha ok, ill agree with you all lol. We need a Jaghut point of view in a prologue tho!

-Lisheo, ice... or ice?