[Obdigore]

Ahh ok, the way its setup it looked to me as if it was being implied that the Tiste's were an offshoot of humans.
IMO, they should be much higher on the tree, and then the Shake should be below them and humans.

Can't prove that the moranth interbred with the Edur.

I would think there should be 'layers' of the tree, the founding species on top, the one step off below, and then below and below, instead of half-off to the side like the Tiste are.

Edit: Also, where does it show that the TTT's are Eres offspring?

[Skywalker]

Had nothing better to do at work (OK, that's a lie) so I came up with this version of the Evolutionary Tree... not much original research... just sort of colored up what Clip had made.

Changes from Clip's version - no separate mention for the Nerek (I figure they roll into Humans), and I rolled all the Elder races in. The two red question marks indicate doubts... 1) dunno if Jhags necessarily have TTT blood or not (probably do - but may be Imass too)... and 2) dunno if the Moranth only learnt form the Edur or intermingled as well.

I also flung the Jhag/ Trell together... not entirely accurate, but what the heck.

Comments welcome.

[Mentalist]

Obdigore;256039 said:

Ahh ok, the way its setup it looked to me as if it was being implied that the Tiste's were an offshoot of humans.
IMO, they should be much higher on the tree, and then the Shake should be below them and humans.

Can't prove that the moranth interbred with the Edur.

I would think there should be 'layers' of the tree, the founding species on top, the one step off below, and then below and below, instead of half-off to the side like the Tiste are.

that fact about teh morant is mentioned--the line that connects them to the Edur is gray--connection is unconfirmed.

Since this is the Tree of Wu specifically, the alien ( as in, not native to Wu)species are shown to the side, at the point when they "entered the gene-pool", so to speak.

EDIT: @ Skywalker--The nerek mention in MT that they relate directly to the Eres... the validity of that claim is unconfirmed, but that is what suggested the inclusion of a separate category for them.
Overall, looks really nice, just not sure if Eleint should be connected to the Tiste....

[Obdigore]

Sky...

Humans need to be higher, to show that they are offsprings of Imass, but parents of Shake.

Moranth and Barghast can, imo, share the same tile. Just two different cultures of the same race, like Letheri and 7c culture is different.

Move the TTT box up to be between the Imass and Jaghut, with no lines connecting those 3 directly.

After that, I think it is more correct than the previous one.

PS... don't see why Jhag/Trell can't share the same box, since it seems their parent races are the same, and they share many traits...

[Skywalker]

Obdigore;256045 said:

Sky...

Humans need to be higher, to show that they are offsprings of Imass, but parents of Shake.

Done

Obdigore;256045 said:

Moranth and Barghast can, imo, share the same tile. Just two different cultures of the same race, like Letheri and 7c culture is different.

There is still the unresolved question of whether the Moranth have any Edur blood... kept it in for the moment.

Obdigore;256045 said:

Move the TTT box up to be between the Imass and Jaghut, with no lines connecting those 3 directly.

I made it less confusing - used curvy lines and multiple question marks. I think TTT = Jaghut * Imass. Crazy theory of sorts. Supported though by Bellurdan saying he has Jaghut blood. May be a GOTMism...

Obdigore;256045 said:

PS... don't see why Jhag/Trell can't share the same box, since it seems their parent races are the same, and they share many traits...

I agree.

Thanks for the comments, Obdi!

[Deragoth]

I think I missed the boat on why the world this series takes place in is called "Wu"? Could someone please explain it to me?


p.s. I do not believe there are any racial differences between TTT and teblor

[Obdigore]

Deragoth;256072 said:

I think I missed the boat on why the world this series takes place in is called "Wu"? Could someone please explain it to me?


p.s. I do not believe there are any racial differences between TTT and teblor

That is the people on this board's name for it, so we have something to call it.

Well, the 'teblor' are descendents of the ancient TTT civilization/culture. Has evolution happened? Unkown.

There seem to be no TTT alive and running about in the main time period of the series, however there are Teblor and Fenn, so we are differentiating.

[Apsalar Shadowdancer]

Deragoth;256072 said:

I think I missed the boat on why the world this series takes place in is called "Wu"? Could someone please explain it to me?


p.s. I do not believe there are any racial differences between TTT and teblor

I believe that Erikson himself called it Wu in a interview or something like that.

Also, i think the only difference between the TTT and the Teblor is time. Like if humans started dieing off and some other race took over we might have secluded groups of humans called "The Malaz".

[Gem Windcaster]

Thanks sky, now it makes more sense. gj!

[Mentalist]

Deragoth;256072 said:

p.s. I do not believe there are any racial differences between TTT and teblor

We do not know for sure. TTT or "Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai" were an ancient race, with a quite developed civilization as a whole.
the Teblor are a relatively small offshoot of that, stuck in the middle of nowhere after extensive migrations and geneticaly isolated from the rest of the world. We do not know if any interbreeding with other species took place, as it did for the Tarthenos on Lether, whose intermarriage with humans resulted in Tarthenals.
Same goes for the Fenn--we know they are secluded in their ranges of Quo Tali, but we have no idea if they're still pure-bloods or not.
So we err on the side of caution, lumping the three into one, assuming that some interbreeding with other species took place, and lumping them all in a category that is separate by virtue of not having a genotype that's 100% match to that of the TTT.

[Optimus Prime]

@Sky--Very impressive!

I thought that Teblor, Fenn and Tarthenal were just less pure blooded versions of TTT. And of course in every group there were a few that were of purer bloodline, like Bellurdan and Karsa.

Like Tarthenal were less pure blood because on the Lether continent they interbred with humans. Possibly the same for the Fenn. THe Teblor, being more isolated, may be more pure blooded but still not totally pure.

[Skywalker]

Thank you Gem, Xander, Ven...

@ Kud - I always thought "Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai" was the correct full name of the species. "Teblor", "Toblakai" and "Tarthenal" were commonly used (but incorrect) shortenings

[Mentalist]

Skywalker;256202 said:

Thank you Gem, Xander, Ven...

@ Kud - I always thought "Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai" was the correct full name of the species. "Teblor", "Toblakai" and "Tarthenal" were commonly used (but incorrect) shortenings

From what we established when we first opened this thread:
TTT-one of the founding Races/species)
Teblor, Fenn--offshoots/remains of that species. Whether they are 100% genetically identical to the TTT of old--unknown
Tarthenal--descendants of TTTs in Lether. Intermarried with Humans. Genotype not 100% match with TTT.
I hope that clears things up a bit...

[Optimus Prime]

The Fenn were found mainly on the Quon Tali continent, right? In the northern reaches?

It must be a GoTism, but isn't Bellurdan mentioned as a TTT?

Tarthenal do seem to have fallen the farthest from their ancestors, while the relative isolation of the Teblor seems to have kept them closer to the original genetic strain. But there is also the question of the inbreeding within the Teblor tribes.

We haven't actually seen a "Fenn" yet have we?

[Sinisdar Toste]

i seem to remember that bellurdan was only ever called a thelomen, that could mean anything tho

[Optimus Prime]

I'm just guessing that as a GotMism...it was a short way of saying TTT. I mean can you imagine having to say the full name every time you were referring to the race or people?

Bellurdan showed up with Nightchill out of the northern part of Quon Tali if my memory is correct, at least a century or so before the time of GotM, right? Or did they just show up about the time Kel and Dancer were beginning their run of conquering? (around 90 years or so ago at the earliest but as recently as 50 or so) Anybody that can confirm that with a direct quote. It was either in GotM or MoI.

[Aptorian]

Bellurdan was a thelomen from the Fenn area... he's not a TTT, he would have been taller.

[Dancer+]

Apsalar Shadowdancer;256114 said:

I believe that Erikson himself called it Wu in a interview or something like that.

Also, i think the only difference between the TTT and the Teblor is time. Like if humans started dieing off and some other race took over we might have secluded groups of humans called "The Malaz".

Apparently a hint was given about a joke name SE and ICE used for the world once upon a time, people assumed it was "wu" and people have started to adopt it.

Personally I think we should have another name for it.

[Zanth13]

Dancer;256407 said:

Apparently a hint was given about a joke name SE and ICE used for the world once upon a time, people assumed it was "wu" and people have started to adopt it.

Personally I think we should have another name for it.

yeah pretty much the name Wu sucks

and should be stricken from the forum...

[Venerus]

The only reference I found to "Wu" was in MoI:

"No deliberate intent created Wu's Closet Square. The open space was born of the happenstance convergence of thirteen streets and alleys of various breadth. The inn to which they all once led no longer existed, having burned down a century or so ago, leaving a broad, uneven expanse of flagstones and cobbles that had, unaccountably, acquired the name of Wu's Closet."

SE does seem to like inns, archaeology and convergences...

Apologies for meandering off topic. Genealogies and such. Carry on.