Malazan Empire: The crippled god, not the main villain? - Malazan Empire

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The crippled god, not the main villain?

#81 User is offline   Settje 

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 07:31 PM

There is no main villian:) Everything since the beginning is a plot by ST,Surly,and Cotillion.Systematically destroy or nuetralize every ascendant thus freeing a truly human empire free from the manipulation of any higher powers.That has always been the goal of the Malazan Empire. LOL crazy theory huh!
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#82 User is offline   Orfantal 

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:19 PM

Does anyone else suspect that the end of the series will not be the defeat of the CG but in fact his healing and reinstatement as whatever he was before

Also that if a war between younger and elder gods takes over from the apparent battle lines then we may not be at all sure of the sides or who is "good" and who is "evil".. Shadowthrone, Hood, QOD et al taking on K'rul, Draconus, Mael etc .. now that would be an interesting scenario.. though I'm sure it won't happen like that
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#83 User is offline   Crop 

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:40 PM

I don't know if it's been mentioned before but the series is(are?) called "Malazan, book of the Fallen" and the CG is often refered to as the "Fallen One"(at least i think he is :S )

Does anyone else than me think that is more than just a coincidence, that maybe the whole series is dedicated to not just the Malazan Empire, but alsothe the crippled god?(if that made any sense)
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#84 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:16 AM

chrissloe;207960 said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned before but the series is(are?) called "Malazan, book of the Fallen" and the CG is often refered to as the "Fallen One"(at least i think he is :S )

Does anyone else than me think that is more than just a coincidence, that maybe the whole series is dedicated to not just the Malazan Empire, but alsothe the crippled god?(if that made any sense)


SE has commented that the "Book of the Fallen" idea is taken fromn Napoleons annals of the same name. But it would be a very well thought of Idea to link the names like that
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#85 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:50 PM

chrissloe;207960 said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned before but the series is(are?) called "Malazan, book of the Fallen" and the CG is often refered to as the "Fallen One"(at least i think he is :S )

Does anyone else than me think that is more than just a coincidence, that maybe the whole series is dedicated to not just the Malazan Empire, but alsothe the crippled god?(if that made any sense)


That IS a rather clever point, that i don't think has been raised before.

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#86 User is offline   Zanth13 

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:06 PM

When Fiddler played his fiddle in Malaz city after they did a roll call of the dead made me think of the series name as well.

I expect by the end the 'list" will be quite longer, and more sad. Hopefully Fiddler will be able to play though....
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#87 User is offline   STOUT 

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 05:00 PM

Bottle;196897 said:

Of course he's the real villain in the series.

One of the main points of Steven Erikson's fantasy novels is: they do not play out like normal fantasy novels.
That's what makes them so enjoyable.

If the Crippled God was really the big uber-villain that some of you seem to want, then the series would have just boiled down to another 'Good vs Evil' showdown. Something SE wants to stay clear of.

Moral ambiguity, no right or wrong. And more so characters act in both right and wrong ways. This is key to SE's writing, and so obviously we're not going to see someone pointlessly evil.

We're meant to feel sorry for the Crippled God, he is a victim just as much. And most importantly he is just as flawed as any of us. I really like the Crippled God's character, and think he's actually one of the series' strong points.

Even the closest things we have had to 'dark lords' have both turned out to be victims. the Pannion seer and Rhulad. And so I really wouldn't expect some perfectly evil and all powerful villain to come out of nowhere. In fact, I think that would ruin the whole series for me if it happened.

This isn't to say the Crippled God is useless, or not formidable in the least. Other members hit the nail on the head, I think, in the other CG thread by saying: The crippled God thrives on flaws, for him a weakness is a virtue, something to be exploited.
I think when all his empires have toppled it was his intention, he thrives in others' failures.

The idea is a bit hard to comprehend, but if SE can pull it off, it will be breath-taking, and really set the series apart from most other fantasy novels.


I mostly agree with you, I think the Cg is just another main element of the story as mush as anyone and about evil villins I would have to say The Empress of the Malazan Empire has shown us that she and her actions would put her number one as a "Villan"""most evil done in this story line"" Including night of knives.
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#88 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 12:59 AM

Lol, CG is probably the main villain, as far az the Malaz world goes, since hes the only one who wishes to kill Burn. that alone makes him the most diabolical one.
one may suggest that the Errant is aiming for that title, since he's bent on pitting the Holds vs Warrens, although some Elder Gods are clearly allied with the new Gods (Mael clearly being against CG, like Cotillion and Shadowthrone)
A crazy pet theory of mine, ever since the BH has been that of KCCM, because at one point Spite talks to Mappo about "godlessness" and KCCM (and KCNR) both strike me as "Godless", and they have been making subtle moves for their grand comeback...
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#89 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 10:51 AM

kud13;208269 said:

Lol, CG is probably the main villain, as far az the Malaz world goes, since hes the only one who wishes to kill Burn. that alone makes him the most diabolical one.
one may suggest that the Errant is aiming for that title, since he's bent on pitting the Holds vs Warrens, although some Elder Gods are clearly allied with the new Gods (Mael clearly being against CG, like Cotillion and Shadowthrone)
A crazy pet theory of mine, ever since the BH has been that of KCCM, because at one point Spite talks to Mappo about "godlessness" and KCCM (and KCNR) both strike me as "Godless", and they have been making subtle moves for their grand comeback...


If the KCCM truly returned in force, like the dozen moons hanging in the Imperial Warren might indicate, I doubt anyone would have time to worry about the CG.

Power to rival the gods and force the EG's off Wu? Kell Hunters so dangerous handfulls of Andii or T'lan Imass are needed just to take out one? Magic so powerfull it has doomed the universe? Except the unlikely return of all the dragons of SD, The KCCM is the biggest threat I could persive.
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#90 User is offline   Settje 

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 02:19 PM

Does anyone else see ST and Cotillion finishing there mapping out of ALL the Azath holds and then tying both holds and warrens to the Azath? Didn't the Malazan's say that humans were tired of gods and ascendants meddling in there affairs? I could see ST sitting on his throne laughing his %#! off after he imprisoned all the powers of the world.


I'm not sure if that would make him the good guy or the bad though...
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#91 User is offline   Crop 

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:59 AM

If humans don't want to have Gods meddling in their affairs they should just stop worshipping them, it's a lot safer than trying to imprison them all inside the Azath houses;)

Besides wasn't there someone who said that nothing lasts forewer, not even the Azath? I wouldn't want to be in ST shoes when that happened ;)
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#92 User is offline   STOUT 

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 04:39 PM

I agree the KccM Re the biggest threat they are in the imperial warren and gives them direct access to The Empress straight to MALAZ city there is even a gate to show those lizard/dragon daddy's where to enter. And I kinda have a hunch they are responsable for the deadening of the battle field that redmask chose to fight on the first engagement, I rember reading they hardly used scorcery only to protect themselves so mabey it was the KccM in the Just Wars that the land was actually killed by the KccM as defence againg majic. JUST A LONG SHOT
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#93 User is offline   STOUT 

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 04:44 PM

Well in ST now has access to starvald D. through the Azath. Part of his plan all along. I think he will have problems with killamandros though
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#94 User is offline   farengi 

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 01:18 PM

If we're going to see the KCCM reappearing, then I wonder are the Jaghut also going to re-appear to oppose them and maybe this time ally with the t'lan Imass?
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#95 User is offline   Lisheo 

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 01:05 PM

I somehow doubt that. The books are about the way the new is replacing the old, really. I dont think SE is going to suddenly resurrect the Jaghut en masse and team em up with another more or less finished race.
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#96 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 03:28 PM

STOUT;209317 said:

And I kinda have a hunch they are responsable for the deadening of the battle field that redmask chose to fight on the first engagement, I rember reading they hardly used scorcery only to protect themselves so mabey it was the KccM in the Just Wars that the land was actually killed by the KccM as defence againg majic. JUST A LONG SHOT


I'm pretty sure we're supposed to think that the earth is dead there because it was where the Imass performed the ritual of Tellan and became T'lan Imass.

The KCCM Matrons don't need no earth magic to go crazy.
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#97 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:00 AM

yeah in the book redmask calls them the shamans of the antlers or some such and talks about their deathless warriors and how the ritual quenched the fire of life in them. all pretty well pointing to it being t'lan imass who stole the magic
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#98 User is offline   Skywalker 

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:46 PM

rahahahakramer99999999;209795 said:

yeah in the book redmask calls them the shamans of the antlers or some such and talks about their deathless warriors and how the ritual quenched the fire of life in them. all pretty well pointing to it being t'lan imass who stole the magic


Interesting... and now that Tool is there, wonder if he will recognize the side effect of the ritual he recovered from
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#99 User is offline   Lisheo 

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 11:03 AM

I suppose he will. I wonder whats going to happen after that. I mean, can Tool undo that effect do you think?
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#100 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 01:58 PM

Lisheo;210011 said:

I suppose he will. I wonder whats going to happen after that. I mean, can Tool undo that effect do you think?


Most likely, not ever. If such a thing can at all be reversed it would be something a god or more probable, Burn would take care of. Perhaps life slowly seeps back into areas like that but it takes a lot longer than 300.000 years it would seem.

Remember there was also such a place in DG.
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