[Lisheo]

At first I thought that too, but the recurring mentions of the Moon,and also a conversation between two ppl in BH (cant remember who, ill look it up tonight) suggests that the CG was brought down from the Moon...

[lobo the wolfman]

If thats so, then where did the jade giants come from? they are connected to the CG some how, yet they didn't come from the moon. I think in TBH one actually crashes into the moon.
I reckon the CG is from like a other universe, maybe somewhere only reachable though chaos it's self.

[Lisheo]

Oh, I didnt know that. I was assuming they arrived from the Moon because of those dark shapes on it in BH, I assumed they were the Jade Giants launching from the Moon... Ok yeah it was a terrible theory lmao my bad.

[lobo the wolfman]

Hey maybe your right, i think it was mentioned by paran i think in TBH thats all

[Lisheo]

He said something about it alright, but theres no solid evidence. I just kinda want the original nature of the Crippled God to be something we can all kinda work out, if you get me.

[lobo the wolfman]

Yeh i get you, but personally i hope SE keeps thinking out of the box as it where and hit us all with a right hook

[Dolorous Menhir]

A war between the "new" and the "old" gods seems likely. It is definitely important that the long dormant Elders have started to stir themselves against the threat of the CG, while some of the younger deities, races and organisations have gone over to his side.

Just consider:

- apathetic Mael roused to actually do...anything by the CG's actions
- long-lost K'rul returns, sets himself the CG
- Draconus suddenly appears close to escaping Dragnipur
- Nightchill makes a power play to free Draconus and dies, becomes part of a major anti-CG player (Silverfox)

Major forces that predate the CG's Fall seem to be aligned against him (Treach, Hood, the old non-Elder gods like D'rek), all are automatically his foes.

[ch'arlz]

Dolorous Menhir;201626 said:

- long-lost K'rul returns, sets himself the CG

Did you mean to say "sets himself against the CG"?

In response to Lisheo's statement "I just kinda want the original nature of the Crippled God to be something we can all kinda work out"
I ran across this last night in MoI, Tor MMpb 2006, p. 241:

Quote

(K'rul) This Crippled God, this stranger from an unknown realm... Lady Envy, I am frightened.

I had quite forgotten that from the first read.

[Dolorous Menhir]

ch said:

Did you mean to say "sets himself against the CG"?

Yes. Yes I did.

I was trying to write it in the correct way, since he didn't come back because of the CG. He came back because Tiste Andii assassins spilled Daru blood on his Belfry. Not due to the CG. But once he was back, he went to work against the CG.

[ch'arlz]

Dolorous Menhir;201633 said:

He came back because Tiste Andii assassins spilled Daru blood on his Belfry. Not due to the CG.

Could you give us a pointer to where/when this happened?

TIA

[Folken]

Gardens of the Moon...the chase on the roof tops with Crockus.

And later on when K'Rul speaks to Rake he says it was spilled blood and it might have also been mentioned in Krupee's dreams

And I agree with DM...a war between the Gods in inevitable, that's been obvious since book 1, subtly obvious, but obvious.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Jen said:

Gardens of the Moon...the chase on the roof tops with Crockus.

The first scenes in Darujhistan - on the rooftops, an assassin named Talo Krafar has been mortally wounded by a Tiste Andii crossbow bolt and is finally killed in K'rul's Belfry. This is the spilled blood on sanctified ground. It calls K'rul back from whatever he was up to in Chaos. When K'rul later manifests and talks to Rake, he is unable to leave that spot. Only later does he regain his mobility, though he is still weak in MoI.

Crokus sees Krafar's body fall, and then the Tiste Andii come for him and he runs. He picks up the Coin during the chase.

[Abyss]

Plus don't forget that Krul sends his manifestation of Keruli to gather support against the Pannions, in MoI.

He also picks up Stonny as some form of worshipper, and Stonny is clearly opposed to the Pannions and via them, the CG.

All of that being said, i still don't rule out Krul playing a double game.

- Abyss, plays a triple game. against himself. which would technically be a quadruple... what was i talking about?

[mycodpiece]

Ahoi

Just followed the "CG villain or not" part of this thread. The following statement got my fullest attention:

"the CG is the most annoying addition to the books because he is such a 'big bad', nemesis to all the 'nicer' characters, just a necessary person for them to pit themselves against, un-killable and everpresent in his machinations, i dont think he was needed at all in the series, or his backstory, just an unfortunate surrender by erikson so he doesnt have to have his favorite characters fight each other instead of the CG"

I agree with the above statement so far (not read all the books available yet). I've been wondering for a while now why fantasy seems to depend on main villains.

PS I still hope that the above statement doesn't hold true...

[Tsundoku]

Actually I kind of like how, as we see the motivations of each of the players, it makes them more easy to empathise with - even the CG. He isn't some moustache-twirling evil-for-evils-sake cliche.

Except for arseholes like Bidithal et al. F**kers like that need to die. Horribly.
Begs the point though - does the CG APPROVE of all that is done in his name, even if it does give him a powerup? OK, I might go with the theory that Bidithal was merely putting the thinnest veneer of justification onto his actions, but still ...

Cheers,

La Sombra, one-millionth monkey

[Lisheo]

I dont think he has a choice, I think hes like Mael or the Errant with Feather Witch. Many of his followers are drawing on his power for personal reasons and he cant truly control all of it, tho he seems to be able to cut off the flow of power completely if needed. Altho this theory comes from Silchas's comment that without his broken twisted worshippers he would have healed long ago.

[Aptorian]

On a sidenote, would it be too obvious that a competent Shield Anvil should have taken the CGs pain by now... and might end up having a part in the solution to the CG problem?

Itkovian tried to take the pain of the god in Feners realm. If Heboric had survived Bonehunters I'd be willing to put money on him being needed to stop the CG.

[Flawed]

Aptorian;202746 said:

On a sidenote, would it be too obvious that a competent Shield Anvil should have taken the CGs pain by now... and might end up having a part in the solution to the CG problem?

Itkovian tried to take the pain of the god in Feners realm. If Heboric had survived Bonehunters I'd be willing to put money on him being needed to stop the CG.

Good call. But we all know that Heboric is still alive but now residing in the body of the slow dude Chaur.

Send Heboric in his new younger model up to the CG and let him embrace his pain.

Or am i the only one who thinks thats what happend to Heboric?

[Aptorian]

I still believe the old dude is dead, and pray to the gods every day for him to stay dead.

Itkovian did seem to have trouble taking the pain of a god though, and it might not be possible for a SA to take away the CGs pain since it seems to be the very aspect of the god.

[Flawed]

True. I just think that Heborics Sheild Anvilness for the tiger was a little breif. Im pretty sure hes not gone.

we will have to see.