[Rat Mentor]

"Draconean blood hardening into stone, horizontal sheets of the substance, already beginning to separate from the surrounding earth, to lift up on edge, forming strange, disarticulated walls. Some then began sinking, vanishing from this realm. Falling through world after world. To reappear, finally, solid and impermeable, in other realms, depending on the blood’s aspect, and these were laws that could not be challenged. Starvald Demelain, the blood of dragons and the death of blood."


SO it may be that K'rul and the dragons rearranged the warrens at some point, but the aspect element to their blood already existed.

And it may be that 'feral' dragons are those not aspected, and perhaps their presence in KE during the sundering is due to an effort to gain an aspect.

In reply to your post Abyss,

The "feral" dragons blood must of been aspected towards a warren otherwise their blood wouldn't of 'reappeared solid and impermeable in other realms, depending on the blood's aspect' as stated.

We know the Eleint consented to K'rul for their blood to be used for the formation and protection of the warrens, so maybe the questioned is why are the slain Dragons described as "Feral"?

Could the Sundering of Kurald Emurlahn possibly sent the six Dragons Mad/Wild?

Do we know of any "solid and impermeable" walls/stone to which the blood may of formed into?

I wonder if the walls in the shadow realm which keep disappearing/reappearing are conected to this?

I'm sure that the Hounds of Shadow treat the walls as solid structures as where Cotillion dosn't.

[Abyss]

@Illy - Corlo was using Mokra from the start. But Mokra has no physical aspect like Meanas or Thyr, so they couldn't use a warren to travel until he found that chunk of KG.

@Rat mentor - i don't think we actually know that the six dead dragons are the 'feral' ones Kila' is ref'ing.

It seems pretty clear that there is an organic, evolving element to to warrens. And Krul was a shaper, he gave a form to something that was already there.

And the dragons speaking with Cotillion in TB claimed aspect to, amongst others KE and Meanas, an elder warren and an allegedly human aspected one.

So, in essence, everything we think we know is now even less likely.

Wheeeeeeee!!!!!!

- Abyss, will control the horizontal, will control the vertical...

[Dark Mac]

I'm still curious what the difference between Elder Warrens and Holds is. Places like Kurald Galain and Starvald Demelain seem to have existed from the beginning, but Holds are supposed to predate the warrens. I kinda thought that Elder Warrens and Holds were identical, but the idea that Kurald Emurlahn was created by K'rul and the Eleint kinda contradicts that. Or is it merely that K'rul changed the warrens from mere realms into paths that could be accessed by living beings to wield in the form of magic?

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think Elder Warrens and Holds are sometimes the same thing.

For example, the Dragon Hold is Starvald Demelain.

It's possible the Empty Hold is Kurald Emurlahn (just speculation).

Perhaps there are other Holds we don't know about, that are just KG (Hold of Darkness, Dark Hold, neither are elegant names), or KT (Hold of Light).

Perhaps Tellan and the Beast Hold have a relation too.

Can't think of any other Holds at the moment.

[Hume]

Nah somehow I dont think a dragon is going to be aspected to a warren that is largely dead.

[Dark Mac]

TheEdgewalker;110653 said:

Has there been speculation as to which dragon is aspected to the Kallor-world/Imperial Warren? If I remember correctly, K'rul created or fashioned a warren to contain the dead realm of Kallor's holocaust. I understand that it is believed that this warren is one and the same as the Imperial Warren. Does it have a dragon? It certainly appeared that it was a singular effort on the part of K'rul in its creation- he didn't ask any dragons for help...

Thoughts?

It's thought that that warren was the KCCM warren. I don't really see any of the Eleint being willing to help out the KCCM, so I suppose that K'rul might have created it on his own. I would think that a KCCM warren would have many unique properties.

[tiam]

TheEdgewalker;110653 said:

Has there been speculation as to which dragon is aspected to the Kallor-world/Imperial Warren? If I remember correctly, K'rul created or fashioned a warren to contain the dead realm of Kallor's holocaust. I understand that it is believed that this warren is one and the same as the Imperial Warren. Does it have a dragon? It certainly appeared that it was a singular effort on the part of K'rul in its creation- he didn't ask any dragons for help...

Thoughts?

OMG that makes perfect sense. I could never figure out why Krul the maker of all warrens and (it seemed since we still dont know the actual power of the EG) the all powerful EG would be broken by creating a warren. I thought well he created all of them so why would one more break his power? So thats why Krul was broken in the effort. The Kallor warren never had a dragon to draw from for power. So Krul was broken in the effort. He was a powerful god and housed the warrens but struggled to make one on his own. That along with the size of the warren but this explains why he struggled so much

[Hume]

ummm... memory check..
But..
The KCCM warren (or magic) asuming they use warrens is Gravity based. If you read between the lines you can figure it out.

[Sir Thursday]

In MT when the Sengar brothers are looking at Scabandari's skull at the Stone Bowl, the nature of Kaschan is mentioned...I can't remember the quote and as I don't have the books with me I can't post it, but I believe it relates to the force that holds objects together, which was taken to be gravity. Of course, one could argue that it is actually Electromagnetics...but given that they travel around in floating skykeeps, Gravity seems to be a good bet.

Sir Thursday

[Bloodyrazor]

can someone quote where it says that the 6 dead dragons are in fact feral dragons cause i only find one reference to feral dragons and it gives no description of what or who they are

[Dark Mac]

Sir Thursday;110755 said:

In MT when the Sengar brothers are looking at Scabandari's skull at the Stone Bowl, the nature of Kaschan is mentioned...I can't remember the quote and as I don't have the books with me I can't post it, but I believe it relates to the force that holds objects together, which was taken to be gravity. Of course, one could argue that it is actually Electromagnetics...but given that they travel around in floating skykeeps, Gravity seems to be a good bet.

Sir Thursday

IIRC, they actually say that it destroys the force that holds objects together, which would make it more of an anti-gravity warren, something closer to Chaos, which certainly fits their nature.

I don't see what difference it makes whether the KCCM warren is gravity or not, though.

[Sir Thursday]

TheEdgewalker;110757 said:

what does that have to do with dragons?

I thought your "I can't" statement was with reference to this post by HUME:

HUME said:

ummm... memory check..
But..
The KCCM warren (or magic) asuming they use warrens is Gravity based. If you read between the lines you can figure it out.

Maybe I misunderstood...

Sir Thursday

[Aptorian]

If it is true that all or most of the warrens have dragons connected to them, does that mean there is a deathdragon? And have we seen the dragib relate dto this yet?

[Illuyankas]

Maybe, the warren that became the Imperial Warren has no aspected dragon, so anyone can take control of it, like the KCNR seem to have.

[Lister of Smeg]

There's no knowing who these six dragons are. As well as that list in MT, Udinaas also sees twenty dragons (and hordes of Wyval) apparently flying off to some war somewhere. The Wyval in that scene are also described as feral dragons, so I assume it was the Wyval Rake refers to in the prologue.