[Lord of Salvation]

There are just so many dragons I cant keep track. I have to assume that Rake would not kill a pure dragon with Dragnipure, since Draconis said there were dragons chained.

[Orfantal]

Hm that's right Draconus said "there are dragons among us" although he would be including himself anf they might be soletaken rather than pure. Of course any there might have been killed by him rather than Rake. If I recall the 3 chained dragons had a particular dislike for him, perhaps that's why. I'll have to try and find what they said.

[Orfantal]

Yep certainly seem to dislike him, perhaps even more than Rake who actually chained them!

Well he might do, but the only three dragons we know he came up against he didn't kill but chained in shadow.... presumably he could have killed them if he chose. Makes you wonder why he didn't.

[tiam]

Sir Thursday;109184 said:

I reckon they are the royal line of Edur that Scabby killed to gain control of the Edur.

Sir Thursday

I doubt it. With the way Rake goes there are soletaken eleint now aswell as feral i think the edur royal family were just powerful normal edur.

Also i agree with Hetan. It seems likely that meaning they are feral or wild as i beleive it means (not looking it up) therefore uncivilised and not participating in the whole aspected dragon thing. Or maybe they are wild dragons that didnt appear in the list we get in MT

"I am Ampelas, who shaped the Blood in the paths of Emerlahn. The sorcery wielded by the Tiste Edur was born of my will."

This as just occured to me and may be obvoius to every one else but it seems the dragons were actually the ones that made the warrens. I mean Krul is still the conduit and holds the power within him but the dragons used there will to shape them into there aspects. This may be obvious to everyone else but i never knew the dragons played such a big part. I simply assumed that the warrens took the aspect of the dragons and maybe they provided the power forr their aspected warrens (elder god Krul may be be we dont know how powerful they are so likely he needed help.) but now i find out they shaped using there will.

Interesting and likely obvious to evryone else. Sorry

[Lord of Salvation]

Do we know if Draconis would go out to challenge Dragons with his newly forged sword, or he did it for a reason?

I cant possibly see Draconis a partner with K'rul killing the Dragons which are aspected to the Warrens which K'rul worked so hard to forge.

I think they have to be soletaken, or the feral ones, because I dont see Rake killing pure dragons either.

[Aptorian]

Come now, people, if a Dragon stands in Rake, Draconus or any other powerful enough creatures way they will remove that threat... if they can. Neither Rake or the Elder Gods are nice creatures, killing dragons for sport seemed on Kilmandaros mind when she looks up at three and growls at them.

On the subject of Dragons in Dragnipur both Draconus and Rake could have taken them. Say naughty dragons reaking havoc in Emurhlan during the sundering, we hear that Kilmandaros and Rake agreed to protect the place.

If anything Rake shows too much mercy with Dragnipur while Draconus showed no such faults. It has been said that around the time Rake killed Draconus, the EG was doing a lot of horrible things. Collecting dragons to pull his vagon could be one of the things that turned Envy against him.

[Lord of Salvation]

collecting dragons to pull his wagon

hmm I dont know if he would think that way, but it is possible. Probably just soletaken or the feral dragons though, no aspected dragons.

[Bloodyrazor]

Am I the only one believing the feral dragons being Wyval/Enkaral-whatevernametheygetinthisbook:)

Quote from MT:

Wyval are spawn of the Eleint. They are the mongrels of the dragons, and even the dragons do not control them. They are of the hold yet FERAL.

Seemed an obvious conection to me...

[Bloodyrazor]

To make it sound all mysterious i bet:D

[Lord of Salvation]

I had thought about that, but for some reason I believed the Feral dragons were more in size to the dragons than the Wyval.

[Abyss]

Interesting debate. Jumping back to Telorast and Curdle, they could be two of the wraiths mentioned being bound the the blood, who took on a dragon aspect that Bottle saw and was misled by.

Which begs the question why there are wraiths running around KE, long before the Edur on Leth bound the Andii spirits.

- Abyss, intrigued.

[Abyss]

In TB Bottle asks Fiddler or someone why Apsalar is hanging out with two dragon spirits/ghosts (Telorast and Curdle).

I'm wondering whether these are not actually dragon spirits, but wraiths who, through long contact with dragon blood, took on some draconic aspect.

re: Wyvals, the description of the bodies seems to suggest greater size than any ekaral/wyval we've seen, and there's the effect of the blood, which didn't happen when Kalam killed the summoned one in DG, the possessed one in HoC, or when Udi stabbed the invisible one in MT.

I think 'feral' dragon means a dragon not aspected to any warren or aligned with any power. Those six may very well have been killed by the three in the air.

- Abyss, wonders if Ossi and his 2 daughters are candidates.

[Dolorous Menhir]

When we first meet Telorast & Curdle, they've taken on the behaviour, language and character of the Tiste Andii corpse near them.

I think Abyss is arguing that, although Bottle identified them as Dragons, they may have picked up this dragon-character by a similar absorption from a dead Dragon.

Note: Telorast and Curdle probably are not the dead dragons, because they say that Kallor feared them, and he lived long after these 6 died at Kilmandaros' hands.

It doesn't eliminate the possibility that T & C interacted with Kallor in their current ghost/spirit/whatever forms though.