[The Cad]

The Elder Warren of Kurald Emurlahn

The Age of Sundering


In a landscape torn with grief, the carcasses of six dragons lay strewn in a ragged row reaching a thousand or more paces across the plain, flesh split apart, broken bones jutting, jaws gaping and eyes brittle-dry.

My immediate thought was that the dragons were ones from the ones we know of (from the series and Baruks family tree) but they need not be of course. What do you reckon?

Edit: Took this off Orfantals Prologue post just to add to the point (it is the point & the Brummie was the 1st to reply!):

Plus what's happenng with the dragons! Weren't there about a dozen in the list that the T'lan Imass in Midnight Tides reeled off. Now we find that half a dozen are dead .. if they're all linked to warrens like Sorrit then what effect has this had. Interesting that we see 3 surviving dragons flying off, weren't there 3 using the Azath to travel in Deadhouse Gates. Rake's use of the phrase "feral" dragons is interesting..wonder if he calls Silannah feral

[Orfantal]

Given the importance of the dragons and their link to warrens I'd be surprised if they're new. Going to have to reread the bit in TBH about Sorrit to see if he might have started off here.. if not that means 7 dead dragons...plus the Otataral dragon and Tiam dead... can't be many left... 3 seem to be flying about and then there's Silannah.

[Sir Thursday]

I reckon they are the royal line of Edur that Scabby killed to gain control of the Edur.

Sir Thursday

[The Cad]

Kilmandaros found another figure standing before it. Black-cloaked, white-haired. An expression of arched contemplation, fixed upon the torn fissure.
About to enter the gate, or waiting for her? The Elder Goddess scowled. “You are not welcome in Kurald Emurlahn,” she said.
Anomandaris Purake settled cool eyes upon the monstrous creature. “Do you imagine I contemplate claiming the throne for myself?”

“You would not be the first.”

He faced the rent again. “You are besieged, Kilmandaros. I offer you my help.”

“With you, Tiste Andii, my trust is not easily earned.”

“Unjustified,” he replied. “Unlike many others of my kind, I accept that the rewards of betrayal are never sufficient to overwhelm the cost. There are Soletaken now, in addition to feral dragons, warring in Kurald Emurlahn.”


I put a fair bit in there. The point being are 'feral' dragons (untamed or wild as the dictionary search informed me) the same as Tiams own. Which i take to be a fairly small number. If you take there to be a large number of feral dragons, that arent 'pure' blood', then 6 dead dragons dont matter.

But if there is only a few..... how many are left (or were there in the beginning)?


EDIT: I always considered the dragons mentioned whilst travelling through the Azath as 'crap' Dragons. I only say that cuz Crokus mentions that he 'has seen bigger', which I know is poor, but i saw as a sign that they were just rubbish, average run-of-the-mill Dragons. But if ther is only a few then the death of 6 is big news!

[Illuyankas]

Just pointing out that the Otataral Dragon is alive.

[The Cad]

What Dragons do still exist?

[Illuyankas]

Silannah, the Otataral Dragon, and the three in the circle in Shadow, not mentioning the Soletaken ones; and I assume most of the list are still in SD.

EDIT: Oh, and the three buzzing through the Azath.

[Orfantal]

"T'iam, Kalse, Silannah, Ampelas, Okaros, Karosis, Sorrit, Atrahal, Eloth, Anthras, Kessobahn, Alkend, Karatallid, Korbas.......Olar. Eleint. Draconean. Dragons. The Pure Dragons."

By this list, assuming it's correct, and excluding Olar, assuming that's Olar Ethil, that gives us 14 pure dragons. Of which at least 6 may be dead. Potentially that could be 8 (6 plus Sorrit plus T'iam) and an Otataral dragon imprisoned, so perhaps 9 out of commission. This might leave 5 still around... the 3 we've seen, Silannah, and another. Weren't the 2 spirits that Apsalar picked up draconean in origin?

[The Cad]

What were the 3 chained in Shadow?

(in 15 minutes i'll edit who!)

2nd attempt: Ampelas, Kalse, Eloth. & Olar.

Took off those 3. tiam. sorrit.

Okaros, Karosis, Atrahal, Anthras, Kessobahn, Alkend, Karatallid, Korbas.

So are 6 of these 8 dead?
Would the warrens still function if so much of the source of power was gone? I would say no, but then does this mean there are loads of dragons? (think of Menandore, the other Sisters etc not mentioned) + Udinass' son!

[Orfantal]

Hetan;109193 said:

I take feral as meaning those who did not help K'rul in the forming of the warrens... unaspected perhaps? Or, more to the point, uninterested?

Not so sure about that as they are the "Children of Chaos" after all. Besides we're not sure that they helped K'rul... and certainly not sure if any participation was voluntary. What about the possibility they were born at the same time the warrens were born. K'rul seems to have linked Dark (or order) and Chaos, the fundamental forces... and imposed order on chaos in the form of the warrens, using his power (blood) as the conduit. If the warrens are the order part of that equation, could the dragons be the chaotic half.. a natural counter balance, and so each linked to a warren. Just a thought.

[Illuyankas]

Kalse, Ampelas and Eloth. And Telorast and Curdle were dragons, yes. Real names for those two would be cool. Unless those actually are the real ones, in which case poor Curdle

[Illuyankas]

Soletaken can be aspected to a warren as well, so not necessarily.

[Onos]

I agree to me feral would mean not aligned to a warren. I just didnt realize there were that many, but with that assumption it is easier to kill a few off. But that makes a bit more sense to me. Seems silly to have only a few dragons, but usually people only speak of the important ones.

Still, pretty freaky to see 6 dead dragons just in one spot... that landscape seemed like a warzone! I want a book just on those battles. Who killed who, what gods were involved, were other things involved, how many creatures did KIL destroy? If there are 6 dead in one spot it wouldnt be crazy to assume there are many more strewn all over.

As for 'the three dragons flying overhead' i would take those to be the 3 chained by Rake that Cotillion talks to in TBH.

[The Cad]

The 3 a the end of DG as the 3 in BH?

[Orfantal]

Hetan;109203 said:

Olar is the Imass word for Eleint
... and assuming those are the sum total of pure dragons..

@Orfantal... well it's pretty clear from BH that the dragons did help K'rul

Aha! yeah it is an assumption

Damn .. been working my way back through all the books once more before reading BH again, and I've nearly finished MT, but just can't remember enough from BH right now!

[The Cad]

As undead twin to tiam, would Olar take the other dragons 1 on 1? (probably done before sorry)

Edit: 3rd attempt--- Are all the warrens attributed to dragons?

[Orfantal]

"I am Eloth, Mistress of Illusions - Meanas to you - and Mockra and Thyr. A Shaper of the Blood. All that K'rul asked of me I have done."

"I am Ampelas, who shaped the Blood in the paths of Emerlahn. The sorcery wielded by the Tiste Edur was born of my will."

Re Scabandari - "After murdering the royal line of the Edur! Afeter spilling draconean blood in the heart of Kurald Emerlahn! After opening the first, fatal wound upon that warren!"

Certainly looks like the dragons were willing participants in K'rul's creation of the warrens. However it's interesting that the soletaken dragons appear to be at least as powerful. The three chained in shadow talk about nearly being killed by Rake, although it now appears he received help from Kilmandaros. Scabandari appears to have been successful in killing Sorrit. You would have thought that the pure dragons being the elemental power behind the warrens might have been more powerful. Certainly seems to imply that the three chained are the three we last saw flying in Emurlahn. They claim to have been trying to heal Emurlahn, but there is also talk of their crime having been ambition. Seems like they muct be different to the three that were flying within the Azath house in Deadhouse Gates.