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First, the Malazan empire had held Seven Cities for quite a while, and it's very plausible that a small unit could have been sent there to investigate. The Bridgeburners didn't just do that trek and leave the continent, they stuck around.
Second, The First Sword was a term Dassem used for the small group of warriors around him, and at most it was about what, 10 people? Not a hundred. Sorry.
*Spoilers* - Crazy Theories II
#41
Illuyankas 
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 03:31 AM
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 03:49 AM
Illuyankas said:
First, the Malazan empire had held Seven Cities for quite a while, and it's very plausible that a small unit could have been sent there to investigate. The Bridgeburners didn't just do that trek and leave the continent, they stuck around.
I mean no offence,
I REALLY mean no offence.
But have you considered the map? WJ and his squad chased kallam and quick through rakaru. WE know that this chase litterally 'created' quick ben. He 'absorbed' (to use a word as good as any) the souls of his fellow wizards. We know that kallam and quick led WJ on a merry trail.
The bridgeburners we are told were therefore (and thereinby) forged/created in rakaru.
So if we look at the map we see rakaru in the east of the continent.
Boatfinder speaks of someone who visited his people when they used to live just west of Ugarat. Look how far west Ugarat is of Rakaru.
Instead compare with Dasseem. He was 'killed' at y'ghatan or whatever it is called.
Now if dasseem wanted to allow the myth of his death to 'carry on' then he needs to leave.
he can't go east because the malazan empire holds the east. so he has to go west. past ugarat.
Illuyankas said:
Second, The First Sword was a term Dassem used for the small group of warriors around him, and at most it was about what, 10 people? Not a hundred. Sorry.
well you say that with confidence and faith. But it was a new concept to me.
You say 10. Why?
You say 'not 100'. Why?
Bonefinder is recalling racial memories. Not specific memories.
EDIT: We also can not ignore what boatfinder's people were told. Warnings about 'others coming' smacks of anti malazan empire advice. did WJ ever strike you as the type of man to give this kind of philosophical advice??? Or does it fit more with the moody 'traveller' that we see on drift avail?
#43
Illuyankas
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:00 AM
By a while I mean decades. Meaning soldiers could be sent all over the annexed continent to explore and pacify. So it's quite plausible that the Bridgeburners, after leaving Raraku, could be assigned to a number of different guard posts around the place, potentially meeting Boatfinder and his kin.
And I say around ten because we are introduced to them in Night of Knives. Other-book experience, that's why.
And I say around ten because we are introduced to them in Night of Knives. Other-book experience, that's why.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:04 AM
Illuyankas said:
By a while I mean decades. Meaning soldiers could be sent all over the annexed continent to explore and pacify. So it's quite plausible that the Bridgeburners, after leaving Raraku, could be assigned to a number of different guard posts around the place, potentially meeting Boatfinder and his kin.
And I say around ten because we are introduced to them in Night of Knives. Other-book experience, that's why.
And I say around ten because we are introduced to them in Night of Knives. Other-book experience, that's why.
but aren't you just stretching plausibility in order to make what we know fit WJ?
My reasons for it being dasseem don't require this level of guess work.
#45
Illuyankas
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:16 AM
Knowing that Dassem left on his own, to be on his own, with absolutely no-one around him is guesswork?
By my reasoning, a bunch of soldiers with the famous sign of a burning bridge being lead by someone with a very similar name to Whiskeyjack, who could be there for a very common reason eg guard duty/exploring/pacification, is a lot more likely than a singular man wandering through looking for somewhere to go.
By my reasoning, a bunch of soldiers with the famous sign of a burning bridge being lead by someone with a very similar name to Whiskeyjack, who could be there for a very common reason eg guard duty/exploring/pacification, is a lot more likely than a singular man wandering through looking for somewhere to go.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#46 Guest_Nobody really ..._*
Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:22 AM
Illuyankas said:
Knowing that Dassem left on his own, to be on his own, with absolutely no-one around him is guesswork?
yes because when we first see him. on drift avail he is hardly alone is he?
perhaps the first sword died. but dasseem didn't.
analyse the sanctimonius stuff that boatfinder's people are told. (apart from the evidence of the map)
IF it was WJ then he goes down in my eyes
EDIT:
Illuyankas said:
By a while I mean decades. Meaning soldiers could be sent all over the annexed continent
The comtinent isn't annexed. just seven cities.
#47
Illuyankas
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:34 AM
Hey, it's not his fault if his no doubt down to earth advice gets embellished by hero worship, is it? And why do you think Dassem would go all holier than thou anyway?
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:39 AM
Illuyankas said:
Hey, it's not his fault if his no doubt down to earth advice gets embellished by hero worship, is it? And why do you think Dassem would go all holier than thou anyway?
because traveller is like that.
(boring git that he is, traveller/daseem is in my humble opinion much more likely to warn boatfinders people about the malazan empire and get them to move further east in order to avoid it.)
(WJ would probably just say 'hi')
#49
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 10:02 AM
First Sword has been used before in the books to describe Dassem's elite fighting force/bodyguard... MoI I believe, or p'raps HoC...
NoK spoilers
NoK spoilers
Spoiler
#50
Tes'thesula
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 10:43 AM
Edge....
anyway, i agree with Illy here...Iskar Jarak does sound like a derivation of whiskeyjack, not at all like dassem, and we have the burning bridge...
I don't see the advice that wj as being sanctimonius, i think he is just trying to help some natives out and over time that got turned into prophecy....
Wasn't he warning them about the T'lan Imass anyway??
anyway, i agree with Illy here...Iskar Jarak does sound like a derivation of whiskeyjack, not at all like dassem, and we have the burning bridge...
I don't see the advice that wj as being sanctimonius, i think he is just trying to help some natives out and over time that got turned into prophecy....
Wasn't he warning them about the T'lan Imass anyway??
#51
Morgoth
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 11:06 AM
I'd say NoK pretty much dissaproves the theory that it was Dassem, not that I see why that possibly could be anyways. Dassem?? I just can't see any reason, nor plausability of that guy being him. The burning bridge ofc, pretty much gives it away that it had to be a bridgeburner.
Dassem is mostly solitary, even when he was with those malazans on Drift Avlii, he acted merely as a soldier. He did not hold any ranking position. To lead a company of malazan soldiers through what is effectively malazan land is way way out of character
Dassem is mostly solitary, even when he was with those malazans on Drift Avlii, he acted merely as a soldier. He did not hold any ranking position. To lead a company of malazan soldiers through what is effectively malazan land is way way out of character
Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#52
Valgard
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 11:08 AM
Plus he was warning them of the T'lan imass as they had destroyed Aren entirely and many of the comanders did not like this at all and so i think it is entirely plausible for Whisky Jack to warn them about them. I think that whisky jack is much more likely to help them than Dassem would ever and the 100 men fits the bridgrburners well. The sword is a smaller unit that were the personal protectors of Dassem that held of the normal troops of the holy protectors whilst Dassem killed them. So I believe that is it is definately Whisky Jack not Dassem.
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Posted 06 March 2006 - 08:09 AM
Rake did indeed chain the dragons.
Crazy theory....Scabandari killed Sorrit
Crazy theory....Scabandari killed Sorrit
#58
tiam
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Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:17 PM
yeh but was that it. i now recall the dragon in shadow was of KE. if you recall cotillion saying ' ahhh clever of krul to make you share warrens therefore minimising the risk' or along those lines
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Posted 06 March 2006 - 04:05 PM
Meanas, Mockra and Thyr - Eloth so she shares with Olar Ethil
Ampelas was Emurlahn
Kalse refused to tell
Ampelas was Emurlahn
Kalse refused to tell
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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:12 PM
Do we think that the dragons 'blue blood' might explain the Lady Envy's aristocratic heritage?
