[QuickTidal]

I think the best worldbuilding scene in Part 1 is

Spoiler

Venli and Leshwi in the council of Nine. I learned more in that single chapter about the Singers/Parshendi than I did in all the previous books. Wonderfully executed chapter.

Also, we’re agreed that Mraize’s “green chicken that can say shit” is a parrot right?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 November 2020 - 06:57 PM

[QuickTidal]

Apropos of nothing, so much more Cosmere stuff in this book!

Part II Chapter 21

Spoiler

Okay, this chapter is basically Adolin rattling off all the non-shard weapons he’s bringing into Shadesmar “just in case”...and I’m fucking HERE for it!

[End of Disc One]

I know people on this forum won’t agree, like Abyss, but I’m finding the Kaladin chapters to be really well done. At the end of part 1 now. His story has potential for a massive payoff in the end and I can’t wait.

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 23 November 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

I know people on this forum won’t agree, like Abyss, but I’m finding the Kaladin chapters to be really well done. At the end of part 1 now. His story has potential for a massive payoff in the end and I can’t wait.

I agree. Once we stepped into PTSD realms, I feel like Sanderson is trying really hard to be clear about mental health issues, not just with Kal, but with Shallan/Veil/Radiant. Both characters suffered horrible trauma and it's exhibiting in real world mental health issues, and it's not done salaciously.

Kal's chapters don't feel like the overwrought depression and whininess that you got from him in WoK and WoR, but more like someone slowly coming to terms with reality of what he's been through. I think once he accepts that and understands his place, you're going to see something really special.

I am wondering what the endgame for Shallan/Veil/Radiant is? I expect that once Shallan admits her past fully to Adolin (the last thing she's really scared of....but we know she doesn't need to be scared since Adolin feels similar guilt about Sadeas), perhaps the endgame is the amalgamation of all three into just Shallan...accepting that parts of her are both like Veil and Radiant, and the Disassociative Identity Disorder will be healed by acceptance of the thing that split her to begin with?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 November 2020 - 01:02 PM

[QuickTidal]

I'm almost all the way through Part 2 now and I gotta say that Part 1 set me up for this to be Book 1 & 2 level of awesome...but Part 2 has dissuaded me of that notion.

Part 2 is very much behaving like the sloggier bits of OB. SO much filler. I've read like what, like 15 chapters of Part 2 and like 2 things of real note have happened. I wasn't expecting wall to wall action, or anything, but holy crap man.

The editors need to be harsher with Brandon at this point. I'm 36 Chapters into the book (not including the 3 interludes so far) and I would argue that 20 of them are worthwhile for plot. The Mistborn books are so different, they are plot grinders with very little filler...but I feel like Brandon lets himself be too indulgent for Stormlight.

It's not bad mind you, and OB was ALL like this for me, so at least I had Part 1 which mixed solid action, with solid SLA plot points...

But holy fuck this book is long, and you FEEL it by Part 2.

Hoping for better Parts 3-5...but I fear for more filler.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 23 November 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 23 November 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

I know people on this forum won’t agree, like Abyss, but I’m finding the Kaladin chapters to be really well done. At the end of part 1 now. His story has potential for a massive payoff in the end and I can’t wait.

I agree. Once we stepped into PTSD realms, I feel like Sanderson is trying really hard to be clear about mental health issues, not just with Kal, but with Shallan/Veil/Radiant. Both characters suffered horrible trauma and it's exhibiting in real world mental health issues, and it's not done salaciously.

Kal's chapters don't feel like the overwrought depression and whininess that you got from him in WoK and WoR, but more like someone slowly coming to terms with reality of what he's been through. I think once he accepts that and understands his place, you're going to see something really special.
...

Whereas i feel they are being overdone. The points are made, and made well, we don't need them reiterated four times.
I have zero issue with depicting characters who are damaged or have mental health issues. i actually prefer POV characters to have real issues with their genre conflicts. It's just that the book is making the exact same point again, and again, and again, at the expense of moving forward with the story. Case in point... SPOILER PART 1...

Spoiler

having now read Kal's angst, watched him fight, watched his angst paralyze him against Moash, watch him angst about that, wath him have not one but two rounds of flashback angst to everyone who died on his watch, and have Dalinar raise it with him, Syl raise it with him, Taft raise it it with him, we did not need to read him angsting ALL OVER AGAIN when they got back to Uruthiru.

Similarly Shallan...

Spoiler

has 'shied away from her memories' three times... Radiant tells her she can deal w it, Veil takes over to protect her...

...it's book 4... a reminder is fine, a related event makes sense, but making the same point with different words multiple times is beating the reader over the head with it. These aren't comics or standalone urban fantasy novels.

Anyhoo, that aside i'm genuinely enjoying the book. It's great to be back in this world, the little cosmere hints are terrific fun.

[QuickTidal]

Those are good points Abyss, and you're probably right. I'm just more bothered by the soggy mid book pace than the reiterative nature of the mental health issues, and Kal is cresting enough of them to make me not notice?

[End of Disc One]

I’m halfway through and still enjoying it, but I can understand those who struggle in the middle. It has slowed down but I guess I don’t mind.

[Tsundoku]

Was stoked to get the TPB recently for only $16! The Mrs looked at me and said:

"Are you going to read that immediately?"

Me: "Well, no, I was planning on finishing the two I have going at the moment first."

Her: "Oh cool, that can go in your Santa sack then."

Me: "..."

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 10 December 2020 - 01:20 AM, said:

I’m halfway through and still enjoying it, but I can understand those who struggle in the middle. It has slowed down but I guess I don’t mind.

I gave up somewhere in Part 4, and went to spoiler threads to learn the ending...it was just too much of a slog for me.

This seals it that I think my journey with Stormlight Archive is at an end. Maybe one day when it's all done I'll give it another chance, but as far as Sanderson goes, I'm going to stick to Mistborn stuff and his other standalone work. SLA is just too overstuffed and too often boring.

[Abyss]

At ch 69 in the earbook, so almost halfway.
No major complaints so far. I could do with less repetitious Kal whining, and we haven't seen Shallan in a while but her whining was getting a similar reaction, but otherwise i'm enjoying it.

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 10 December 2020 - 03:53 PM, said:

Oh shit you gave up? Hmm

I got to around 125 or so yesterday. Just no time to really sit down in quite environment. These guys are here some nights till 9 pm sawing and hammering away. I’m enjoying but I can see Kal is likely to be a depression case the entire fucking series and I’m just not sure I can stomach 7K future pgs of his suicidal shit. Then of course there is “The Three” Jesus its horrible.. this series is full of head cases. Vin in Mistborn was damaged to but still managed to be awesome mostly.

He has no chill when it comes to SLA. All the Mistborn books are 300-400 pages each and they are tight, well written, and enjoyable. SLA is Brandon unconstrained and it's too sprawling, and too loose, and too openly slow.

[End of Disc One]

QuickTidal, on 10 December 2020 - 04:19 PM, said:

Briar King, on 10 December 2020 - 03:53 PM, said:

Oh shit you gave up? Hmm

I got to around 125 or so yesterday. Just no time to really sit down in quite environment. These guys are here some nights till 9 pm sawing and hammering away. I’m enjoying but I can see Kal is likely to be a depression case the entire fucking series and I’m just not sure I can stomach 7K future pgs of his suicidal shit. Then of course there is “The Three” Jesus its horrible.. this series is full of head cases. Vin in Mistborn was damaged to but still managed to be awesome mostly.

He has no chill when it comes to SLA. All the Mistborn books are 300-400 pages each and they are tight, well written, and enjoyable. SLA is Brandon unconstrained and it's too sprawling, and too loose, and too openly slow.

My copy of Well of Ascension is over 700 pages long, and I'm pretty sure Final Empire an Hero of Ages are over 600 pages. It's definitely a different style though. Strange that his first 5 Cosmere books were all in that page range, and he hasn't written anything in that page range since. Hopefully he can get back there with Mistborn era 3.

[Abyss]

Possibly.

[Zuzu Bolin]

QuickTidal, on 10 December 2020 - 02:57 PM, said:

I gave up somewhere in Part 4, and went to spoiler threads to learn the ending...it was just too much of a slog for me.

This seals it that I think my journey with Stormlight Archive is at an end. Maybe one day when it's all done I'll give it another chance, but as far as Sanderson goes, I'm going to stick to Mistborn stuff and his other standalone work. SLA is just too overstuffed and too often boring.

If you can get through Toll the Hounds you can get through this.

I thoroughly enjoyed the whole book.

[Skywalker]

Finished the book - thusly also finishing my re-read of SLA 1 and 2 and first time read of Edgedancer, Oathbringer, and Dawnshard. I was taking my time so it didn't feel like a slog, and I did enjoy it.

Feel like BS is REALLY subverting expectations with this series. He set up a bunch of Chekhov's guns and some of them turned out to be knives and others were AK-47s I really dug Navani's arc in this book, and things did NOT go as I had expected them to with Adolin, Shallan, Taravangian or the wider plot. A bunch of themes and scenes were too repetitive as Abyss has said. Points well made, but do you need to hammer them again and again Mr BS?!

Also the pacing is just off with this book I agree. The last 100 odd pages are so stuffed, I really do wonder if (as a vague, mild spoilery example)

Spoiler

we could have done with one less "corruption/ light-recharge node" mission?

Anyway two non-spoiler impressions from having caught up on this series:

1) Anyone else getting a distinct Wheel of Time vibe from this series? I know it's contained and he's going to take a break from it after book 5 etc. but Books 3 and 4 definitely had a more Crossroads of Twilight vibe to them rather than being reminiscent of The Dragon Reborn. I really worry that the series scope and ergo the length of books is getting away from BS

2) The Cosmere hints - oh man. I have nowhere near the time I would need to invest to re-read Mistborn or Warbreaker or the million novellas I need to so I can understand all the references, but this is clearly the lore-heaviest Cosmere book yet? Almost feels like BS is getting ready to launch into the Cosmere core narrative (Dragon something?) pretty soon. Not sure how I feel about it - I would rather not have to spend hours on a wiki before I can read and enjoy that fully. It's the old MCU problem of "you really need to watch 21 movies to enjoy that reference in Endgame", I get that, but I'd rather he put in one or two hints and easter eggs in each book, not like (checks notes)... (realizes there are no notes because he had no time) SO MANY

I enjoyed it, but feel like this series is hard work

This post has been edited by Skywalker: 27 December 2020 - 04:30 AM

[End of Disc One]

I've got like 15 pages left. Had to leave for work before I could finish.

I am beyond happy with one of the big character moments at the end. Sanderson really knows how to nail the emotional climaxes. I also feel like this is one way that the length helps. You spend so many pages waiting for certain things to happen, and that just makes it so much more satisfying when they finally do. It's why The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly has my favorite movie climax of all time. It spends almost 4 hours--much of it slow--building up to this one amazing moment.

Even though I have 15 pages left, I'm comfortable with my ranking. WoR > RoW > OB > TWoK

[End of Disc One]

Good luck with part 3, it seemed to take the longest for me to get through

[End of Disc One]

The page at the beginning of part 3 will tell you who gets POVs, but yes most of it is Urithiru

[Werthead]

The Stormlight Archive Book 4: Rhythm of War

Quote

The war between the forces of Odium, a dark god who desires ultimate power over the Cosmere, and the Knights Radiant is continuing to escalate. The Knights Radiant have conquered the ancient tower-city of Urithiru and are using it as an impregnable stronghold to wage war on Odium's forces. Dalinar Kholin forms an alliance with a skilled general and decides to mount an attack on Odium's armies to the south, whilst his son Adolin embarks on a dangerous mission into the other-dimensional realm of Shadesmar to seek an alliance with the honorspren, a task complicated by ancient crimes committed by humanity against them. Kaladin Stormblessed, the greatest soldier in Dalinar's armies, finds himself granted a leave of absence to deal with his own battle stress and self-doubt. But Odium is not beaten yet and takes advantage of Dalinar's absence from Urithiru to put a bold plan into motion.

Rhythm of War is a lot. It's the latest in a lot of books: this is the fourth of ten planned books in the Stormlight Archive series and the twelfth of a planned thirty-odd books in the wider Cosmere universe. It's a lot of pages: at more than 1,200 pages this is the longest epic fantasy novel published since the previous volume in the series, Oathbringer, which in turn was possibly the longest fantasy novel published in over a decade. It's a lot of characters, with dozens of major and minor characters playing important roles in the story. It's also a lot of worldbuilding, with fabrials and Shardplate and voidlight and stormlight and half a dozen different magic system employing different principles being discussed at chapter-stretching length (not helped by the three-year gap since the last book in the series; keeping the Stormlight wiki on standby during reading may be advisable). This is not a series for the faint-hearted or the short of time.

Rhythm of War is also, it is pleasing to report, a stronger novel than its forebear, arresting a slight decline in quality that the series had been suffering since the start. The Way of Kings was a strong novel which set up an unusual, alien setting with an interesting story and worldbuilding and characters who were among Sanderson's best. Words of Radiance was almost as good, but suffered some pacing issues. These pacing issues became overwhelming in Oathbringer, a relatively simple and focused novel that was diffused and made more complicated than it needed to be by immense amounts of worldbuilding and backstory discussions that, strictly speaking, didn't really need to be in the book.

Rhythm of War shores up a building that was, if not in danger of collapse, starting to list under its own weight. The novel is helped by dropping the completely self-contained side-stories that appeared in previous novels and by setting up very clear stories around its four main characters: Venli, Shallan, Kaladin and Navani (with Dalinar, Wit, Adolin and Lift having reasonably important secondary roles). Each story is told clearly and intersects with the others in a well-laid out manner, with Sanderson expending a lot of energy on making these characters jump off the page more than previously.

It's also a heavy novel, in the sense that both Shallan and Kaladin's stories revolve around mental health, stress, PTSD and other issues revolving around personality disorders and the need for good mental health practice. It's a strong theme that was touched on in the previous books but becomes a major plot point in this novel. It's welcome to see a contemporary issue being fleshed out in a fantasy novel in a respectful and mostly well-handled way. However, given the novel has come out in the middle of a global pandemic and many readers will be suffering stress and pressure as a result, readers should be forewarned going into the book that it is tackling weightier-than-normal themes for the author.

The clear demarcation and semi-equal screen time between the four leads helps tremendously in overcoming the pacing issues from the previous novel (thinking of this more as four much more reasonably-sized 300-page novels, each focused on a strong lead character, helps).

That said, problems remain. There are immense stretches of time, especially in the Navani storyline, where characters sit around and discuss worldbuilding issues between them. The idea of characters in a epic fantasy novel acting like scientists and trying to work out how the magic of the world works in an experimental manner is really interesting, but the novel does feel it goes a bit overboard as we see people using magnets and beakers to try to catch stormlight and voidlight in bulbs and do weird things with them. It's a cool idea that is overindulged in.

In addition, the splitting of time between the characters feels a bit uneven at times, with the Shallan/Adolin/Shadesmar plot benched for the entire central third or so of the novel because the author ran out of things for them to do. That's a reasonable solution and better than giving them filler, but it's a bit odd that Shallan is a such a hugely important character at the start and end of the novel but then completely vanishes between.

There's also a perennial Sanderson problem that he's improved on a lot book-by-book but still pops up at odd moments, namely that Sanderson is traditionally a writer who works from the head rather than the heart. There are sections in this book that do feel more like they've come from the heart, excellent action sequences as characters confront old enemies or moments of major character revelation, but some of the book feels studied, analysed and written with something of an absence of passion. This is particularly notable whenever Odium appears live on-page. The Dark Lord showing up to confront the characters (even in a vision where they can't touch or fight one another) should be a major event, but pretty much every time this happens some kind of odd debate on rules of conduct unfolds; the last such major confrontation has all the tension of Odium and Dalinar debating the small print of a text like two opponents who've paused a board game to check the rules online to see if an odd move is allowed. There is a last-minute, genuinely impressive plot twist that might change this for future books, but that remains unproven for now.

Rhythm of War (****) is a stronger novel than the one that came before it and continues to display Sanderson's strengths to full effect: immensely detailed, convincing worldbuilding, solid action and a logical, considered development of the plot, as well as interesting characters. Some of his weaknesses remain, such as a tendency to overwrite, occasionally getting bogged down in the minutiae of the setting and a lack of writing flair in some scenes which doesn't sell big events as much as they should be sold. But it's hard not to remain impressed by the sheer size and scope of the story he is telling here.