[Tattersail_]

Mess you have your ability wrong.

You call special president. That person becomes president for that go but then it reverts back to order.

So say you pick Venge. Next President after him is Drek then Dolmen.

Does it count towards the 3 though? If not I'd be third.

[Nevyn]

Messremb, on 26 February 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 25 February 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

As for waiting i believe vengeance has to officially submit his policy pm, we just already know the result thanks to mess.

Then we wait for Mess to call the special election ( inwhich he should make venge pres)

Drek
Dolmen
Tatts
Cause
Nomnomnomnom
Venge
Nyven
Messremb

I don't like that big gap between Dolmen and Venge. For the next election we have D'rek (1) and then Dolmen (2). People give me a reason why I shouldn't pick a president of Itwas. Dolmen would be 3rd election if Nom doesn't propose someone we like so no chance of a random power. Remaining cards are 3/6 therefore if a liberal card isn't passed to the next chancellor we're rightly suspicious whoever passes it.

Also, I can't recall the beef with Nom, which end of a lie was he on again, Pres or Chancellor?

The gap between dolmen and venge is not relevant

we are 2 liberal policies from winning.

If there is a fascist policy in the next two, that president gets a kill, which can narrow that gap.

Thus it never comes into play.


Picking Nom is trusting Nom over Venge and Mess. And it is a lot of trust, because the president can likely force a fascist policy and kill a player.

You'll vote nein if you don't like his chancellor? He doesn't NEED a bad chancellor.


Essentially your plan means, if Hitler were Venge or Dolmen (which you are still worried about) and Nom a fascist, you'd approve his government and insta-lose.
And if anyone else is hitler (including Nom) and he is fascist, he just puts out policy #4 and kills a trusted liberal, and now the liberals barely even control the votes.

[Nevyn]

Tattersail_, on 26 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Mess you have your ability wrong.

You call special president. That person becomes president for that go but then it reverts back to order.

So say you pick Venge. Next President after him is Drek then Dolmen.

Does it count towards the 3 though? If not I'd be third.

It counts towards the 3 and he had it right.

He was saying if nom was special oresident and then we decided to reject his govt dolmen would be 3 . If it went dolmen would be 2

And it is a bad idea because you cant tell a fascist by their chancellor pick

[Messremb]

Nevyn, on 26 February 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 26 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Mess you have your ability wrong.

You call special president. That person becomes president for that go but then it reverts back to order.

So say you pick Venge. Next President after him is Drek then Dolmen.

Does it count towards the 3 though? If not I'd be third.

It counts towards the 3 and he had it right.

He was saying if nom was special oresident and then we decided to reject his govt dolmen would be 3 . If it went dolmen would be 2

And it is a bad idea because you cant tell a fascist by their chancellor pick

But then he has to pick a safe chancellor less he confirm fascist. Same for policy passes.

[Nevyn]

Messremb, on 26 February 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 26 February 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 26 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Mess you have your ability wrong.

You call special president. That person becomes president for that go but then it reverts back to order.

So say you pick Venge. Next President after him is Drek then Dolmen.

Does it count towards the 3 though? If not I'd be third.

It counts towards the 3 and he had it right.

He was saying if nom was special oresident and then we decided to reject his govt dolmen would be 3 . If it went dolmen would be 2

And it is a bad idea because you cant tell a fascist by their chancellor pick

But then he has to pick a safe chancellor less he confirm fascist. Same for policy passes.

It is worth outing himself as fascist when he can kill a liberal. And he would have his choice of killing the only liberal among you 3 who can be next chancellor, or killing Dolmen (his likely chancellor), and next 3 presidents are Tatts, Drek, Cause, AND claiming Dolmen failed it. Or he could kill me, say he got 3 fascist and hope to go back on as chancellor.

And if you're right and he is liberal, that is still not good for you, because you are basically forcing him to make Dolmen chancellor, which is who Venge would pick. So if I am a fascist trying to make you guys pick a hiding Hitler, and Nom is liberal, still a decent chance he takes Hitler as chancellor and liberals lose.

[Tattersail_]

The only thing I've done wrong this game is appoint D'rek my chancellor. How can I prove I'm not fascist without a chance. I'd elect Venge or Mess as my Chancellor.

[Itwæs Nom]

If I was president I might actually read up properly and appoint either Tatts or D'rek chancellor
And if a fascist policy was enacted I could just kill Nevyn then?

[Cause]

Cause, on 26 February 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 26 February 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

Even if I were a fascist I wouldn't lie about rules and deck composition to a bunch of new players. That would basically be cheating.

To answer the overall question, there were 3 liberal and 9 fascist left. So there is a 3/12 + 3/11 + 3/10 = 82% chance of at least one liberal policy being in the 3 cards drawn. As I said, we were unlucky.

But on the plus side, the odds look great for finding liberal policies on the next 2 governments.

That is not how probability works. Because by that logic 9/12 + 8/11 + 7/10 = 220 % chance of drawing 3 fascist policies. Its not misleading to play the game to win which your obviously doing. And your obviously trying to confuse the others.

I believe the probability of drawing 3 fascist policies is 9/12 * 8/11 * 7/10 = 0.75 * 0.72 * 0.70 = 40% So it was a 60% chance to draw at least one liberal.

So is the next round assuming Messremb told the truth 3 liberals and 6 fascists? Or will it still be a shuffle of 3 liberals and 8 fascists?

Can someone confirm if the policies that don't get passed get shuffled back immediately? I really want to keep an eye of the odds. should have done it from the start but I think I am only learning the game properly as we play.

I still caution anyone to trust Nevyn, naturally. At the very least make your own opinion on what he is saying. So far I'm gonna trust Nom as the only confirmed liberal. The odds do look to have made messremb getting 3 fascist policies as likely but only by 60 to 40% Not the 82% Nevyn tried to have us believe. So sleeper fascist who quotes the rule book that Hitler should play as liberal as possible or actual liberal. That is a logic rabbit hole as far as I can see so I wont explore it further. I think I'm willing to give Messremb the benefit of doubt. Still it worries me that Nevyn through out his fake data.

I still cant make head or tails of Drek/Tatts. Do they have a long history of antagonism in mafia. They both seem to be really going at each other? I think I will abandon my theory that both could be fascists. Because rather than convincing us one is fascist and one is liberal they instead appear to have made both of themselves untouchable. So I'm convinced one is fascist and one is liberal but I cant tell which is which.

Still if Messremb is clean that means Dolmen or Vengeance is dirty. But no reason to trust the one over the other. Still the odds look to heavily favour fascist policies, more so than at the start even so we cant afford not to pass goverments?

Hitler only wins if he is made chancellor right? Not if he is made president? Is their some logic for messremb to then choose a likely hitler as president? Actually as I write this I see that is a dead end because the likelihood of getting at least 2 fascist policies is too high and he will pass them on, also giving him the assassination power.

I'm kinda stuck.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Itwæs Nom, on 27 February 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

If I was president I might actually read up properly and appoint either Tatts or D'rek chancellor
And if a fascist policy was enacted I could just kill Nevyn then?

Interesting.

Say we vote yes to a Nom D’rek or Nom Tatts govt and a fascist policy turns up. Could you explain how this might help anyone information wise?

Just want to follow your thinking on this.

[Cause]

Dolmen 2.0, on 27 February 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Itwæs Nom, on 27 February 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

If I was president I might actually read up properly and appoint either Tatts or D'rek chancellor
And if a fascist policy was enacted I could just kill Nevyn then?

Interesting.

Say we vote yes to a Nom D’rek or Nom Tatts govt and a fascist policy turns up. Could you explain how this might help anyone information wise?

Just want to follow your thinking on this.

I presume he wants to try and break the deadlock and solve which is which but as you say it risks a fascist accomplishing a fascist goal to find out they are fascist. So it seems to defeat itself.

[Tattersail_]

Dolmen 2.0, on 27 February 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Itwæs Nom, on 27 February 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

If I was president I might actually read up properly and appoint either Tatts or D'rek chancellor
And if a fascist policy was enacted I could just kill Nevyn then?

Interesting.

Say we vote yes to a Nom D'rek or Nom Tatts govt and a fascist policy turns up. Could you explain how this might help anyone information wise?

Just want to follow your thinking on this.

And if you pass a fascist policy we should just believe you received two? Like Mess just gone. Right?

[Tattersail_]

Mess are you about? If you picked me as President now, and a Liberal policy was passed, that'd mean I'd be President again in 3 turns OR if you select Venge and he picks me as Chancellor, then he could pass me the Liberal policy and it'll get passed, that'd vindicate me and I'd be President in 3 turns. It'd prove my Liberalism. That's if we 100% trust Venge to get the job done, but he must be pro liberal passing two liberal policies earlier in the game, and if Hitler he'd still want to look liberal too.

[Cause]

Tattersail_, on 27 February 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Mess are you about? If you picked me as President now, and a Liberal policy was passed, that'd mean I'd be President again in 3 turns OR if you select Venge and he picks me as Chancellor, then he could pass me the Liberal policy and it'll get passed, that'd vindicate me and I'd be President in 3 turns. It'd prove my Liberalism. That's if we 100% trust Venge to get the job done, but he must be pro liberal passing two liberal policies earlier in the game, and if Hitler he'd still want to look liberal too.

Except if Hitler he would win the game Immediately no? 3 facist policies passed already?

[Tattersail_]

Cause, on 27 February 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 February 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Mess are you about? If you picked me as President now, and a Liberal policy was passed, that'd mean I'd be President again in 3 turns OR if you select Venge and he picks me as Chancellor, then he could pass me the Liberal policy and it'll get passed, that'd vindicate me and I'd be President in 3 turns. It'd prove my Liberalism. That's if we 100% trust Venge to get the job done, but he must be pro liberal passing two liberal policies earlier in the game, and if Hitler he'd still want to look liberal too.

Except if Hitler he would win the game Immediately no? 3 facist policies passed already?

That's actually right, got to be very careful here, no wonder Nevyn's getting excited.

[Tattersail_]

Safe to say then that most people would agree, D'rek and I are not Hitler, so elect us Chancellor, if D'rek the President gets a fascist policy, if me they get a liberal one, unless D'rek wants to head fuck us, but as long as the President is Liberal, he gets the power to do something about it.

[Tattersail_]

D'rek choosing to head fuck would still be good for Liberal's because we get a liberal policy.

[Itwæs Nom]

Dolmen 2.0, on 27 February 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Itwæs Nom, on 27 February 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

If I was president I might actually read up properly and appoint either Tatts or D'rek chancellor
And if a fascist policy was enacted I could just kill Nevyn then?

Interesting.

Say we vote yes to a Nom D’rek or Nom Tatts govt and a fascist policy turns up. Could you explain how this might help anyone information wise?

Just want to follow your thinking on this.

Not sure right now,depends on what would be the policies I passed, but if I understand correctly I'd get the power to kill someone and I'd get us rid of one fascist who also happens to be the most experienced player attempting to drive the thread 🤷

[Vengeance]

Messremb, on 26 February 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 25 February 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

As for waiting i believe vengeance has to officially submit his policy pm, we just already know the result thanks to mess.

Then we wait for Mess to call the special election ( inwhich he should make venge pres)

Drek
Dolmen
Tatts
Cause
Nomnomnomnom
Venge
Nyven
Messremb

I don't like that big gap between Dolmen and Venge. For the next election we have D'rek (1) and then Dolmen (2). People give me a reason why I shouldn't pick a president of Itwas. Dolmen would be 3rd election if Nom doesn't propose someone we like so no chance of a random power. Remaining cards are 3/6 therefore if a liberal card isn't passed to the next chancellor we're rightly suspicious whoever passes it.

Also, I can't recall the beef with Nom, which end of a lie was he on again, Pres or Chancellor?

Well lets see Nom was part of a presidency that picked liberal and part of a presidency that picked Fascists. Which puts him at 50% likelyhood that he is fascits.

You have 3 legit VPI. 2 of whom can be president back to back. If President I will nominate Dolman to be my chancelor and when Dolman is President should nominate you to be chancelor. There is a 60 % chance that a liberal card is shown in my deck. If there is no liberal card. Then I will be able to see the next 3 cards and know what Dolman can play. I say we reset if we haven't won after Dolman. That way Dolman can be president again. Lets not take any chances with adding in any players who are suspicious. That is the safe way to get a liberal win.

[Vengeance]

I am voting no to any president that isn't Mess, Dolman or myself.

[Vengeance]

Itwæs Nom, on 27 February 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

Dolmen 2.0, on 27 February 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Itwæs Nom, on 27 February 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

If I was president I might actually read up properly and appoint either Tatts or D'rek chancellor
And if a fascist policy was enacted I could just kill Nevyn then?

Interesting.

Say we vote yes to a Nom D’rek or Nom Tatts govt and a fascist policy turns up. Could you explain how this might help anyone information wise?

Just want to follow your thinking on this.

Not sure right now,depends on what would be the policies I passed, but if I understand correctly I'd get the power to kill someone and I'd get us rid of one fascist who also happens to be the most experienced player attempting to drive the thread 🤷

If you are the next president and a fascits card is played then you get to see the next 3 cards in the deck. Kill is the policy after that.