[Cause]

I have sent in a ja vote. I think until we get at least one government and see what it does its all just blind conjecture going nowhere.

For now we just need to remember that dolmen chose messremb 'cause it seemed most likely'

[Tattersail_]

Votes are meant to be secret so I wonder if you did vote JA Cause, or you're just saying that for when we get a nein vote.

[Cause]

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Votes are meant to be secret so I wonder if you did vote JA Cause, or you're just saying that for when we get a nein vote.

Its a possibility. But Id argue that this is exactly the kind of pointless conjecture we need to avoid. Did I vote yes, did I vote no. Is Dolmen the enemy, Is messremb or are they both team liberal. We literally can argue this in circles all day long for now. For now it helps the fascists to muddy the waters with endless accusations that spin us in circles. They operate in confusion.

I'm a noob at this game and mafia in general so I'm open to being schooled but for now I see no tangible evidence to decide anything. If you have a reason that can be explained why we should not let this government be formed I'm keen to hear it.

[Tattersail_]

Cause, on 06 February 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Votes are meant to be secret so I wonder if you did vote JA Cause, or you're just saying that for when we get a nein vote.

Its a possibility. But Id argue that this is exactly the kind of pointless conjecture we need to avoid. Did I vote yes, did I vote no. Is Dolmen the enemy, Is messremb or are they both team liberal. We literally can argue this in circles all day long for now. For now it helps the fascists to muddy the waters with endless accusations that spin us in circles. They operate in confusion.

I'm a noob at this game and mafia in general so I'm open to being schooled but for now I see no tangible evidence to decide anything. If you have a reason that can be explained why we should not let this government be formed I'm keen to hear it.

I am pro government in this case and have voted that way but you don't know that and I cannot know you did or didn't either. We will see what the results are after Macros reveals them.

[Tattersail_]

The last government was veto'd because Dolmen would've had two power positions in a row, which is quite strong when we don't know much about the game, it'd give him a wealth of information over the rest of us, however, this Government is fine because Mess is last president elect.

[Macros]

Votes are public, we send them to me to ensure they are simultaneously revealed.

Think they're all in, will sort after tea

[Nevyn]

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

The last government was veto'd because Dolmen would've had two power positions in a row, which is quite strong when we don't know much about the game, it'd give him a wealth of information over the rest of us, however, this Government is fine because Mess is last president elect.

FYI, since I know most players are new to the game.

But if you really supported a government you are not on, when you stand to be the 3rd president, that is the type of thing that is normally viewed as very suspicious.

You are president next either way, but if this government is defeated, you are president and no one can really vote down your government (they can, but it would be a disastrous idea). That is the best spot to be in. People sometimes approve specific governments early specifically so that they can be 3rd president for the NEXT policy.

[Messremb]

[Messremb]

Nevyn, on 06 February 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

The last government was veto'd because Dolmen would've had two power positions in a row, which is quite strong when we don't know much about the game, it'd give him a wealth of information over the rest of us, however, this Government is fine because Mess is last president elect.

FYI, since I know most players are new to the game.

But if you really supported a government you are not on, when you stand to be the 3rd president, that is the type of thing that is normally viewed as very suspicious.

You are president next either way, but if this government is defeated, you are president and no one can really vote down your government (they can, but it would be a disastrous idea). That is the best spot to be in. People sometimes approve specific governments early specifically so that they can be 3rd president for the NEXT policy.

If this were Mafia I'd wonder why you are symping me.

[Tattersail_]

Nevyn, on 06 February 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

The last government was veto'd because Dolmen would've had two power positions in a row, which is quite strong when we don't know much about the game, it'd give him a wealth of information over the rest of us, however, this Government is fine because Mess is last president elect.

FYI, since I know most players are new to the game.

But if you really supported a government you are not on, when you stand to be the 3rd president, that is the type of thing that is normally viewed as very suspicious.

You are president next either way, but if this government is defeated, you are president and no one can really vote down your government (they can, but it would be a disastrous idea). That is the best spot to be in. People sometimes approve specific governments early specifically so that they can be 3rd president for the NEXT policy.

I just wanted to see what happens next, as I will then have an indication of what to do if I am president.

[Tattersail_]

You talking to me or Nevyn Mess?

[Vengeance]

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

The last government was veto'd because Dolmen would've had two power positions in a row, which is quite strong when we don't know much about the game, it'd give him a wealth of information over the rest of us, however, this Government is fine because Mess is last president elect.

WTF? Care to clarify that statement. Why the fuck is Mess being the pres elect fine if he is a facist or hitler? I don't know that he isn't either.

[Tattersail_]

Vengeance, on 06 February 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

The last government was veto'd because Dolmen would've had two power positions in a row, which is quite strong when we don't know much about the game, it'd give him a wealth of information over the rest of us, however, this Government is fine because Mess is last president elect.

WTF? Care to clarify that statement. Why the fuck is Mess being the pres elect fine if he is a facist or hitler? I don't know that he isn't either.

In the list of people who signed up. Mess is last. The reason for not voting Dolmen as Chancellor was because he was president next.

[Tattersail_]

I see the confusion, I just thought it'd be a while before Mess would have a power position. Ie I wouldn't vote for him as chancellor again, i'd give others a try.

[Nevyn]

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

In the list of people who signed up. Mess is last. The reason for not voting Dolmen as Chancellor was because he was president next.

Again, FYI, that is not as big a deal (Dolmen on successive governments) as you are making out. In fact, it is an advantage in some ways, because if the first government enacts a liberal policy you can support his presidency, and if they put out a fascist one you can reject it.

I mean, the only thing that sucks about it is if both governments go through, you are learning less about other players.

[Tattersail_]

So are you opposed to this Government? I guess we'll see.

[Nevyn]

As I explained earlier, my default position is to reject every government I am not on, unless it is a 3rd presidency.

I don't trust any of you people.

[Tattersail_]

Nevyn, on 06 February 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

As I explained earlier, my default position is to reject every government I am not on, unless it is a 3rd presidency.

I don't trust any of you people.

Surely at some point you have to, unless you're Hitler and you are not playing for the team.

[Nevyn]

Tattersail_, on 06 February 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 06 February 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

As I explained earlier, my default position is to reject every government I am not on, unless it is a 3rd presidency.

I don't trust any of you people.

Surely at some point you have to, unless you're Hitler and you are not playing for the team.

Key word is default.

We start the game knowing nothing. We gain information with every nomination, every vote, and every policy.

Thus early, I want to be in governments, and otherwise want to force more presidencies.

But if it is a third, I am forced to support it to avoid a random policy.

As I grow to trust or distrust people that will naturally change. But it can't really change until some policies have been enacted.

In fact, a fascist is much more likely to break with this approach because they will know when there is a government that includes another fascist. If I were a fascist and I were rejecting the government to you, that would be a good indication that you were a fascist too. If I were Hitler, I'd be playing exactly like a Liberal the whole game until situations forced otherwise. Suspect voting is just about the last thing Hitler would engage in.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 06 February 2018 - 05:21 PM

[D'rek]

Information is all well and good, but we don't actually gain any information if everyone just automatically votes down any government they aren't part of. You have to base your vote on something more than that or nothing can be gained. And I don't think you can conflate Hitler and the other fascists much. Seems like Hitler can lie low for a long time until making a sudden last-minute swoop for the Chancellory and still win, while the other fascists have to actually be actively pursuing agendas... sometimes.

Your proposed behaviour sounds like a convenient way for fascists to excuse doing any behaviour that might out them on-thread behind the plausibility of following a "system". I don't see how it benefits town enough since we get just about nil info from it.