[Salt-Man Z]

nacht, on 27 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

The "Twisted" was wicked. Cartheron complaining about Choos "fixing" the knots and saying that there were too many captains was hilarious (Choss, Hawl).
I am not sure Hawl is dead. "Lost" might just mean a temporary loss in the case of Hawl.

Quote

Hawl lay on the bed, her chest a wet mess of blood; on the floor just at his feet lay Grinner, face down, stabbed in the back.

Quote

We lost Hawl and Grinner

Or ICE just pulls an Ian Malcom ("I got better!") in the next book.

[Abyss]

Salt-Man Z, on 27 November 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

nacht, on 27 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

The "Twisted" was wicked. Cartheron complaining about Choos "fixing" the knots and saying that there were too many captains was hilarious (Choss, Hawl).
I am not sure Hawl is dead. "Lost" might just mean a temporary loss in the case of Hawl.

Quote

Hawl lay on the bed, her chest a wet mess of blood; on the floor just at his feet lay Grinner, face down, stabbed in the back.

Quote

We lost Hawl and Grinner

Or ICE just pulls an Ian Malcom ("I got better!") in the next book.

I'd be perfectly fine with 'Hawl just barely recovered and buggered off to mourn Grinner and no one said anything until she got back'. I just want something because otherwise it's pretty much a Harllo.

[Nevyn]

Salt-Man Z, on 27 November 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

nacht, on 27 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

The "Twisted" was wicked. Cartheron complaining about Choos "fixing" the knots and saying that there were too many captains was hilarious (Choss, Hawl).
I am not sure Hawl is dead. "Lost" might just mean a temporary loss in the case of Hawl.

Quote

Hawl lay on the bed, her chest a wet mess of blood; on the floor just at his feet lay Grinner, face down, stabbed in the back.

Quote

We lost Hawl and Grinner

Or ICE just pulls an Ian Malcom ("I got better!") in the next book.

In order to write a sequel to the movie of your book rather than the book, you need someone to make a movie.

[worry]

In terms of Dassem's timeline, he still has to become the "First Sword" of the Imass, in (unwitting?) service of Hood. So there's still plenty before the Chaining where they finally break.

I'm guessing what he learns from putting Nara in the Azath comes back around -- in a more heartbreaking, more desperate, more hopeless situation -- regarding his daughter. In like a "it worked once before..." kind of way.

That requires a few assumptions, of course.

[Abyss]

BEST NOT WHAT WE THOUGHT SHE WAS: Tattsersail... it was initially a little hard to reconcile this naïve 'battlemage' Tattersail with the war-weary veteran we met in GotM for just long enough for her to die and come back as someone else entirely. And if I'm going to be critical, her whole plotline with Mock was predictable... two pages into their first interaction I knew Viv was going to end up in Mock's bed and Tats was going to walk. That said, I did enjoy her storyline, from delusions of entitlement to a real desire to become the High Mage she should be. Also, throwing a burning warship around is just awesome.

SEA YA: Tattersail also gave us some great pov moments of the naval conflict between Malaz, Nap and Cawn. The big battle wasn't overlong, but well written, and I liked how Ruse mages and Tattersail were part of the fight but not determinative. It also gave us Mock's one moment not being useless. ICE has given us great ship v ship action before in SW, this was easily on par if not better.

ISLE SEA YA AGAIN: There were some nice descriptions of Malaz Island in this book. We've seen the place before, a few times, but the Keep, the port and the edges got some nice further development as it became the start of the Empire.

FUN THROWAWAY CHARACTER AWARD: The Tanno Spiritwalker Dancer encountered in the otataral mine was interesting. The idea that they actually use otataral to enhance their magic (if they survive the attempt) is pretty nuts, but also made for an interesting foundation for Kellanved`s power-ups.

MINE!: I can see why the Empire will eventually seize Otataral island. Interesting that no one power had done so yet. Also wondering whether the powder Kallor used on Nightchill was otataral, or something else entirely.

IN THE HOUSE Y'ALL: Nightchills comments on her relatives 'becoming' the Azath Houses were interesting. Also, confusing. She seemed to imply that the Houses themselves were something else, yet other Azathanai were incorporated somehow.

[QuickTidal]

Not reading the thread for spoilers...but at 60 pages in....this book is fucking fantastic! I'm taking my time and drinking in every scene.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 29 November 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Not reading the thread for spoilers...but at 60 pages in....this book is fucking fantastic! I'm taking my time and drinking in every scene.

AS YOU FUCKING SHOULD!

[Tiste Simeon]

Just finished it! So great. So, so great.

No idea who Nedurian is, I'll be keeping an eye out as I continue my reread. (QB?)

No idea who Chem is that you're mentioning. Nor who the fisherman dude was (was it actually Fisher Kel Tath?)

Every scene with Dassem in was utterly sublime. Just a joy. The scene with the bridge where he killed so effortlessly was amazing (and the line a few pages later where they take Mocks Hold where Dancer thinks "what he'd heard of Dassem, he could probably kill everyone in there single handedly") it just reaffirmed that Dassem is actually definitely in my top 3 characters out of everyone.

I also thought Dassem's daughter will be as a result of his union with Shear. And as someone else mentioned, it is a shame she dies (or not as the case may be) because a character that is part Dassem/part Seguleh would be flipping DOPE!

I am very interested to see where it goes from Surly's Napans being very devoted to her and everyone being a bit wary of Kellanved & Dancer to them being devoted to the Emperor to the point that everyone fakes their own deaths.

Where does Baudin come in?

Where is QB??

WAIT. Whiskeyjack. Bridges burning. How did I not get that?

I can't remember an Opal at all. Like, ever. I was waiting for the Lee reveal and was just confused.

When D'rek was talking to itself are they referencing Tay eventually becoming the new K'rul? I don't even remember where that happens (TCG? Assail? OST?)

That's all for now I'm sure more things will occur to me.

[Nevyn]

The fisherman was protecting from riders during night of knives I believe. Toben?

Tay become krul in OST. I assumed that was what they were referencing.

[Abyss]

Nedurian was mentioned in GotM as the commander of Tattersail's Mage cadre, before he died.
Chem is the Fisherman who challenges the Stormriders inNoK. Same dude who punted Kallor in DHL.

[Gorefest]

Tiste Simeon, on 01 December 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

Just finished it! So great. So, so great.

No idea who Nedurian is, I'll be keeping an eye out as I continue my reread. (QB?)

Nedurian is already dead by the time of GotM. We learn in GotM that he was one of the old cadre mages and Tattersail's 'mentor' as battlemage, but he died in the battle for Mott Wood.

Quote

No idea who Chem is that you're mentioning. Nor who the fisherman dude was (was it actually Fisher Kel Tath?)

Chem is mentioned in NoK as well. It is a local sea cult, so it might be the Malaz name for Mael. I really don't think that the fisherman is Fisher Kerl Tath. I assume he was the same guy that we saw rowing out to meet the Stormriders in NoK, with the lantern and the pipe and all. So most likely he is some sort of local ancient, maybe a powerful island spirit or somesuch. Could actually be that 'Chem', of course.

Quote

WAIT. Whiskeyjack. Bridges burning. How did I not get that?

Assuming it is not a red herring. It seems very early for Whiskeyjack to make his appearance. Also, in GotM we are told he was not from noble descent and that he had been a mason's apprentice before becoming a soldier. Then again, GotM-isms, so yeah.

If it isn't WJ (which does seem unlikely), I was thinking that maybe he might turn out to be Toc the Elder, if Toc turns out not to be Tocaras after all (this is getting very shaky very quickly!). Perhaps he becomes good friends with Tocaras, then Tocaras gets killed and Jack takes on his name as sort of badge of honour. Toc the Elder is described as a 'soldier with a brain' by Kellanved. Also, Toc the Elder is said to have a tanned nut-brown scalp, which doesn't really sit well with Tocaras being Napan. But Jack is not. I know, it is all very speculative and makes less sense than the more straightforward 'Jack is WJ and Tocaras is Toc", but then again ICE seems to have a thing for (slightly annoyingly) messing around with names a lot.

Quote

I can't remember an Opal at all. Like, ever. I was waiting for the Lee reveal and was just confused.

The only Opal I recall from the series is the mage from the Crimson Guard. But surely that cannot be right as Lee is not a mage. So really no clue what is going on there. I assume she will be one of the first Talons or perhaps the first Claw?

Quote

When D'rek was talking to itself are they referencing Tay eventually becoming the new K'rul? I don't even remember where that happens (TCG? Assail? OST?)

I find the whole Tayschrenn storyline in the ICE books very confusing. No clue, but very interested to hear other people's opinions on that one.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 01 December 2017 - 10:50 AM

[worry]

Really, the main story of all the series is that the gods are awful caretakers, from consolidating power to demanding blood sacrifices to neglecting the souls of the dead. Some gods come to realize this, others don't care and just want the power, and between ST & Cotillion (and Rake) there comes a reckoning. That's where Tayschrenn's story line comes in. He often comes off as aloof, arrogant, self-interested, loyal to the concept of the empire more than its people, but ultimately he's doing the same thing as Kel and Dancer and (given K'rul and D'rek's approval of what he's doing) for the same reasons they did it.

[Gorefest]

My confusion is mainly with the events surrounding his disappearance and his immersion in the Vitr. Mostly I just cannot really recall anymore what happened to him during Assail, just that there was a giant who built azath houses and that Tay was reluctant to take up some role. My memory is just hazy on that point.

[Abyss]

In RCG Tays was busy staying clear of the entire conflict between Laseen and the Crimson Guard and the Old Guard when Yath dropped in with a ship full of mages, stole their powers and opened a great honking gate to chaos that almost killed the world.

Tays stepped in and closed it, but was sucked into it. Kiska was pissed and went looking for him.

Next he shows up on the shores of the Vitr not remembering who he is, gets his memory back, and claims K`rul`s role as God of Dreams is OST.

[nacht]

Tiste Simeon, on 01 December 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

Just finished it! So great. So, so great.

No idea who Nedurian is, I'll be keeping an eye out as I continue my reread. (QB?)

No idea who Chem is that you're mentioning. Nor who the fisherman dude was (was it actually Fisher Kel Tath?)

Every scene with Dassem in was utterly sublime. Just a joy. The scene with the bridge where he killed so effortlessly was amazing (and the line a few pages later where they take Mocks Hold where Dancer thinks "what he'd heard of Dassem, he could probably kill everyone in there single handedly") it just reaffirmed that Dassem is actually definitely in my top 3 characters out of everyone.

I also thought Dassem's daughter will be as a result of his union with Shear. And as someone else mentioned, it is a shame she dies (or not as the case may be) because a character that is part Dassem/part Seguleh would be flipping DOPE!

I am very interested to see where it goes from Surly's Napans being very devoted to her and everyone being a bit wary of Kellanved & Dancer to them being devoted to the Emperor to the point that everyone fakes their own deaths.

Where does Baudin come in?

Where is QB??

WAIT. Whiskeyjack. Bridges burning. How did I not get that?

I can't remember an Opal at all. Like, ever. I was waiting for the Lee reveal and was just confused.

When D'rek was talking to itself are they referencing Tay eventually becoming the new K'rul? I don't even remember where that happens (TCG? Assail? OST?)

That's all for now I'm sure more things will occur to me.

I missed the Jack, bridge burner for a long time :-)

The fisherman is quite a character. Interesting, maybe the fisherman is Arathan, visits the stormriders after sinking in NoK and drum roll ... ends up as Ruthan Gudd.

[champ]

I laughed at...

Nedurian and Agayla after the Fisherman gets his catch...

Quote

"Who was that?"
...
"Agayla... Who?
...
He rolled his eyes and started off. "Fine. Don't tell me."
"Some things," she said, taking his arm, "aren't meant to be known."

Yeah, ICE... we know... bloody tease... Definitely felt like a nod to the fans.

This post has been edited by champ: 06 December 2017 - 07:51 PM

[WhiskeyJohn]

My fave funny moment was

Kell: An ancient army, cursed to search forever – so they say.’
Dancer: ‘Search for what?’
Kell:‘Well … for their enemy, I assume. What else does an army search for?’
Dancer: ‘A tavern?’
Kellanved made a face. ‘Very funny.'

Lol, the banter between these two provides for a interesting dynamic that tragically was lost in Malazan books.

[nacht]

nacht, on 01 December 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 01 December 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

Just finished it! So great. So, so great.

No idea who Nedurian is, I'll be keeping an eye out as I continue my reread. (QB?)

No idea who Chem is that you're mentioning. Nor who the fisherman dude was (was it actually Fisher Kel Tath?)

Every scene with Dassem in was utterly sublime. Just a joy. The scene with the bridge where he killed so effortlessly was amazing (and the line a few pages later where they take Mocks Hold where Dancer thinks "what he'd heard of Dassem, he could probably kill everyone in there single handedly") it just reaffirmed that Dassem is actually definitely in my top 3 characters out of everyone.

I also thought Dassem's daughter will be as a result of his union with Shear. And as someone else mentioned, it is a shame she dies (or not as the case may be) because a character that is part Dassem/part Seguleh would be flipping DOPE!

I am very interested to see where it goes from Surly's Napans being very devoted to her and everyone being a bit wary of Kellanved & Dancer to them being devoted to the Emperor to the point that everyone fakes their own deaths.

Where does Baudin come in?

Where is QB??

WAIT. Whiskeyjack. Bridges burning. How did I not get that?

I can't remember an Opal at all. Like, ever. I was waiting for the Lee reveal and was just confused.

When D'rek was talking to itself are they referencing Tay eventually becoming the new K'rul? I don't even remember where that happens (TCG? Assail? OST?)

That's all for now I'm sure more things will occur to me.

I missed the Jack, bridge burner for a long time :-)

The fisherman is quite a character. Interesting, maybe the fisherman is Arathan, visits the stormriders after sinking in NoK and drum roll ... ends up as Ruthan Gudd.

Some more grist for this

From DoD, conversation betweeen Skanarow and Ruthan

Quote

She surprised him with a grin and it transformed her face. The old ones among my people say that sometimes you find a person with the roar of a sea squall in their eyes, and those ones, they say, have swum the deepest waters. In you, Ruthan Gudd, I now understand what they meant. But in you I see not a squall. I see a damned typhoon.'

He quickly looked away, ran fingers through his beard. 'Just a spell of gas, Skanarow.'
She barked a laugh. 'Have it your way, then. Avoid raw vegetables, Captain.'
He watched her ride off. Fisherfolk. You, Skanarow with the lovely smile, I need to avoid. To bad.

[Nevyn]

nacht, on 08 December 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

nacht, on 01 December 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 01 December 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

Just finished it! So great. So, so great.

No idea who Nedurian is, I'll be keeping an eye out as I continue my reread. (QB?)

No idea who Chem is that you're mentioning. Nor who the fisherman dude was (was it actually Fisher Kel Tath?)

Every scene with Dassem in was utterly sublime. Just a joy. The scene with the bridge where he killed so effortlessly was amazing (and the line a few pages later where they take Mocks Hold where Dancer thinks "what he'd heard of Dassem, he could probably kill everyone in there single handedly") it just reaffirmed that Dassem is actually definitely in my top 3 characters out of everyone.

I also thought Dassem's daughter will be as a result of his union with Shear. And as someone else mentioned, it is a shame she dies (or not as the case may be) because a character that is part Dassem/part Seguleh would be flipping DOPE!

I am very interested to see where it goes from Surly's Napans being very devoted to her and everyone being a bit wary of Kellanved & Dancer to them being devoted to the Emperor to the point that everyone fakes their own deaths.

Where does Baudin come in?

Where is QB??

WAIT. Whiskeyjack. Bridges burning. How did I not get that?

I can't remember an Opal at all. Like, ever. I was waiting for the Lee reveal and was just confused.

When D'rek was talking to itself are they referencing Tay eventually becoming the new K'rul? I don't even remember where that happens (TCG? Assail? OST?)

That's all for now I'm sure more things will occur to me.

I missed the Jack, bridge burner for a long time :-)

The fisherman is quite a character. Interesting, maybe the fisherman is Arathan, visits the stormriders after sinking in NoK and drum roll ... ends up as Ruthan Gudd.

Some more grist for this

From DoD, conversation betweeen Skanarow and Ruthan

Quote

She surprised him with a grin and it transformed her face. The old ones among my people say that sometimes you find a person with the roar of a sea squall in their eyes, and those ones, they say, have swum the deepest waters. In you, Ruthan Gudd, I now understand what they meant. But in you I see not a squall. I see a damned typhoon.'

He quickly looked away, ran fingers through his beard. 'Just a spell of gas, Skanarow.'
She barked a laugh. 'Have it your way, then. Avoid raw vegetables, Captain.'
He watched her ride off. Fisherfolk. You, Skanarow with the lovely smile, I need to avoid. To bad.

I have serious issues reconciling someone who is a longtime mage with elder ties protecting Malaz isle, presumably drowning in a Stormrider attack during the transition to Laseen, and then joining the Malazan forces, moving up the ranks as a soldier (not mage), and serving with Greymane.

Possible Arathan link to the fisherman? Not impossible, but call me skeptical
Possible fisherman link to Ruthan? I don't buy it at all.

Given that Malaz has a sea cult referred to as Chem, and that Mael worship has different names and cults all over, good bets for the fisherman would be somehow being Mael himself, being a member of Mael's hold, or being in other ways associated such as a child of Mael, perhaps even named Chem). Or given references and interactions with the fisherman's wife (a conversation where he asks her to sing for him in NoK, and further reference to singing Nightchill better and her appearing to get the reference), she could somehow fit into it too. So you could even have her be Nerruse I suppose.

[glasseye]

WhiskeyJohn, on 06 December 2017 - 08:52 PM, said:

My fave funny moment was

Kell: An ancient army, cursed to search forever – so they say.'
Dancer: 'Search for what?'
Kell:'Well … for their enemy, I assume. What else does an army search for?'
Dancer: 'A tavern?'
Kellanved made a face. 'Very funny.'c

Lol, the banter between these two provides for a interesting dynamic that tragically was lost in Malazan books.

I don't know. I always liked the conversation about Shadowthrone's mother.