[WhiskeyJohn]

 Nevyn, on 08 December 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Given that Malaz has a sea cult referred to as Chem, and that Mael worship has different names and cults all over, good bets for the fisherman would be somehow being Mael himself, being a member of Mael's hold, or being in other ways associated such as a child of Mael, perhaps even named Chem). Or given references and interactions with the fisherman's wife (a conversation where he asks her to sing for him in NoK, and further reference to singing Nightchill better and her appearing to get the reference), she could somehow fit into it too. So you could even have her be Nerruse I suppose.

I thought the fisherman was K'rul since he calls her 'sister' as Draconus should in the sword by now.

[Nevyn]

Her name is sister of cold nights

And a lot of the elder gods tend to refer to one another as siblings

[Lady Bliss]

Loved it, particularly the interactions between Kell and Dancer as everyone else said. I think I need to reread though. There were parts that I felt were slow on the initial read, but I haven't been feeling well, so that may have been the problem. We know now that Tay was NOT in any of the Kharkanas books now, so that rules him out as Arathan. I expected him to start going by Artanthos when Kell saved him and brought him into Malaz.

[Abyss]

 Lady Bliss, on 11 December 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

Loved it, particularly the interactions between Kell and Dancer as everyone else said. I think I need to reread though. There were parts that I felt were slow on the initial read, but I haven't been feeling well, so that may have been the problem. We know now that Tay was NOT in any of the Kharkanas books now, so that rules him out as Arathan. I expected him to start going by Artanthos when Kell saved him and brought him into Malaz.

You're overlooking Tays' mysterious origin, found as an amnesiac child on the streets of Kartool by the Demidrek.

[QuickTidal]

Okay, so I finished over the weekend.

I agree with a lot of what's already been said so I won't rehash it...but MAN this book was incredible! Loved it even more than DANCER'S LAMENT. Just a really excellent ride, and just like DL, this just makes me want to do a full MBF series re-read. ICE has really come into something special here.

What did I like best? As others have said, Kell and Dancer's back and forth and burgeoning relationship was wonderful to watch.

So was the Napan story with Surly and Crust, and Urko et al.

(Whisky) Jack's "Burn the bridges" was AMAZING. I was sitting here like "Noooooo...it's not that easy is it? Oh hell YES!"

Dassem's stand at the final bridge was incredible, as was Lee (Opal) watching it and becoming a disciple.

Tattersall and Mock was the only storyline that I found a TAD weak (but not overly so)....but I DO like that Mock (the guy the damned castle hold is named after) was a weak, unintelligent ineffectual wad...who only ruled because he'd co-opted a powerful mage do keep him in power....and once she was gone, he was overthrown IMMEDIATELY.

I think the final action sequence was the best as it involved everyone. ICE wove it all into this lovely, INTENSELY Malazan, final act and I loved every section of it.

These books have been an utter joy thus far, and I can't wait to see where they take us next!

[WhiskeyJohn]

I don't think Tay is Arathan. I put the similar names to just coincidence.

He was an adult even in Kharkanas trilogy, so him found as child in Kartool needs some timeline squeezing. Also was there any segment that illustrates Tay as being good with the sword?

[worry]

The Arathan = Tay people should be jailed. It was true in 2012 and it's true in 2017.

[nacht]

 QuickTidal, on 11 December 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Okay, so I finished over the weekend.

I agree with a lot of what's already been said so I won't rehash it...but MAN this book was incredible! Loved it even more than DANCER'S LAMENT. Just a really excellent ride, and just like DL, this just makes me want to do a full MBF series re-read. ICE has really come into something special here.

What did I like best? As others have said, Kell and Dancer's back and forth and burgeoning relationship was wonderful to watch.

So was the Napan story with Surly and Crust, and Urko et al.

(Whisky) Jack's "Burn the bridges" was AMAZING. I was sitting here like "Noooooo...it's not that easy is it? Oh hell YES!"

Dassem's stand at the final bridge was incredible, as was Lee (Opal) watching it and becoming a disciple.

Tattersall and Mock was the only storyline that I found a TAD weak (but not overly so)....but I DO like that Mock (the guy the damned castle hold is named after) was a weak, unintelligent ineffectual wad...who only ruled because he'd co-opted a powerful mage do keep him in power....and once she was gone, he was overthrown IMMEDIATELY.

I think the final action sequence was the best as it involved everyone. ICE wove it all into this lovely, INTENSELY Malazan, final act and I loved every section of it.

These books have been an utter joy thus far, and I can't wait to see where they take us next!

For all these reasons, I believe now that the path to ascendancy will be a great TV series.
It is funny, plots are tight and a lot of action.

[Abyss]

 worry, on 11 December 2017 - 11:57 PM, said:

The Arathan = Tay people should be jailed. It was true in 2012 and it's true in 2017.

I have no particular fixation on the theory, but have yet to see any effective counter-theory beyond 'it was a really long time ago'.

If anything the revelation re Tays amnesiac child origin leaves the Arathan thing on the table, moreso than any 'Arathan is Quick Ben' theory i've seen.

[worry]

It's all Gudd.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 QuickTidal, on 11 December 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Okay, so I finished over the weekend.

I agree with a lot of what's already been said so I won't rehash it...but MAN this book was incredible! Loved it even more than DANCER'S LAMENT. Just a really excellent ride, and just like DL, this just makes me want to do a full MBF series re-read. ICE has really come into something special here.

What did I like best? As others have said, Kell and Dancer's back and forth and burgeoning relationship was wonderful to watch.

So was the Napan story with Surly and Crust, and Urko et al.

(Whisky) Jack's "Burn the bridges" was AMAZING. I was sitting here like "Noooooo...it's not that easy is it? Oh hell YES!"

Dassem's stand at the final bridge was incredible, as was Lee (Opal) watching it and becoming a disciple.

Tattersall and Mock was the only storyline that I found a TAD weak (but not overly so)....but I DO like that Mock (the guy the damned castle hold is named after) was a weak, unintelligent ineffectual wad...who only ruled because he'd co-opted a powerful mage do keep him in power....and once she was gone, he was overthrown IMMEDIATELY.

I think the final action sequence was the best as it involved everyone. ICE wove it all into this lovely, INTENSELY Malazan, final act and I loved every section of it.

These books have been an utter joy thus far, and I can't wait to see where they take us next!

I (Seguleh) second all of the above. Finished it last night, and it was a blast. The Kallor plot didn't really feel like it tied in, but perhaps that was just setting the stage for the next book.

Speaking of the Seguleh, do we know what rank Shear was? I didn't see any mention of markings on her mask, but that would make her the First, which seems improbable.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 14 December 2017 - 03:06 PM

[Gorefest]

I think it was said in OST that he at one point had defeated the Seguleh Seventh. So that might be her.

[Abyss]

I'm pretty sure the ref to Das defeating the Seventh meant Rake.

As for Shear, her mask is described as being a half-mask, not the usual Seguleh full face thing, so as a starting point she's unusual, possibly a renegade or wanderer like some we've seen in other books.

Iirc the description of her half-mask included a ref to elaborate decoration, tho i don't have the book on hand to confirm.

[Gorefest]

Ah, that makes sense. Forgot about that link

[worry]

Yah, I think it's from Dassem's point of view and at some point during the bandit raid. The gist being (aimed at the reader, since Dassem doesn't know the significance) she has more marks than are readily countable.

[Kellanved's shadow]

 Gorefest, on 01 December 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 01 December 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

I can't remember an Opal at all. Like, ever. I was waiting for the Lee reveal and was just confused.

The only Opal I recall from the series is the mage from the Crimson Guard. But surely that cannot be right as Lee is not a mage. So really no clue what is going on there. I assume she will be one of the first Talons or perhaps the first Claw?

It was stated by one of the claw members in KoK that anyone can be taught how to use the warrens. It is just that this process is difficult and time consuming so they just wait for people with the natural talent to sign up instead of teaching ordinary folk.

[Kellanved's shadow]

Spoiler

Remember the whole point of K'ruls gambit in the Kharkanas trilogy was so that everyone could access sorcery, and I mean EVERYONE.

[Nevyn]

 Gorefest, on 01 December 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

The only Opal I recall from the series is the mage from the Crimson Guard. But surely that cannot be right as Lee is not a mage. So really no clue what is going on there. I assume she will be one of the first Talons or perhaps the first Claw?

I mean, Surly sends her on a mission and gives her a claw to use as a message, so first claw is answered.

But yeah, no idea how she ends up as a CG mage.

Also, they kind of built up the reveal, and then give us a new character name of someone we largely don't give a darn about

 Gorefest, on 13 December 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

I think it was said in OST that he at one point had defeated the Seguleh Seventh. So that might be her.

Rake was ranked 7th against his will based on his ill fated visit to the Seguleh island. They referred to him as Blacksword, a reference to Dragnipur.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 14 December 2017 - 02:44 PM

[Abyss]

 Kellanved, on 14 December 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

...It was stated by one of the claw members in KoK that anyone can be taught how to use the warrens. It is just that this process is difficult and time consuming so they just wait for people with the natural talent to sign up instead of teaching ordinary folk.

Book fu kudos, I barely remember that from NoK.
It's also possible that Lee just has not 'found' her warren yet.

There's also the point that if Lee/Opal were the 'first' Claw, and then took off to join the Crimson Guard opposing the Empire, that would be entirely consistent with what happens to pretty much the entire Old Guard.

[buddhacat]

 Abyss, on 14 December 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

 Kellanved, on 14 December 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

...It was stated by one of the claw members in KoK that anyone can be taught how to use the warrens. It is just that this process is difficult and time consuming so they just wait for people with the natural talent to sign up instead of teaching ordinary folk.

Book fu kudos, I barely remember that from NoK.
It's also possible that Lee just has not 'found' her warren yet.

There's also the point that if Lee/Opal were the 'first' Claw, and then took off to join the Crimson Guard opposing the Empire, that would be entirely consistent with what happens to pretty much the entire Old Guard.

Timing's off by a few decades - the Crimson Guard fought the Empire made up of the Old Guard. So Opal as CG predates the OG disappearance by a lot - It was at the end of the Kellanved Empire (start of Laseen Empire) that the Old Guard disappeared.