[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Even if it were all consensual, her being their employee would be extremely problematic. The only circumstance in which having sex with someone you're employing should be considered okay is if they've been hired for sex work. And afaik Gaiman hasn't claimed that she was hired as a "sex nanny". Though I'd suppose that admission might open them to prosecution, depending on what the laws are in New Zealand. It's possible that Palmer knew Scarlett wanted to have a sexual relationship with Gaiman and hired her with the (implicit or explicit) understanding that that's what would happen, but afaik they haven't claimed that.

[worry]

Two more women come forward about Gaiman, including one with a settlement and NDA: https://www.pajiba.c...neil-gaiman.php

[Tsundoku]

Whoa.

Actor who starred on Netflix’s hit show Sex Education revealed to be a pedophile
The depraved crimes against women and children of a 24-year-old actor who starred on hit show Sex Education have been detailed

https://www.news.com...524e6dda2fd23f3

A Sex Education star raped a teenage girl in his acting class and forced pupils to recite Shakespeare naked.

Alexander Westwood, who also starred in the BBC’s Doctors, has been found guilty of 26 sex offences against women and children.

The actor, 24, was found to have committed a string of heinous sex offence dating back to when he was just 10.

...

[polishgenius]

The crime is awful, but that is some shameless clickbait from whoever wrote that article. He starred in Sex Education and Doctors so hard that, according to IMDB, he didn't even get credit in either series. As far as I can tell he was basically an extra.

[Tsundoku]

There you go. Thought I'd never heard of him, but I figured it was because I never watched much of the series and miss so much stuff these days because there's so much out there.

But he was able to parlay even that minimal fame into a sort of power. Ugh, what a turd.

[amphibian]

The alleged acts by Neil Gaiman in this well reported article are horrendous.

https://www.vulture....dman-madoc.html

I can't read his works anymore. Shoving the ones I have in my library to the basement for eventual disposal.

[QuickTidal]

The Gaiman thing has finally blown wide with Vulture covering it.

https://www.vulture....dman-madoc.html (note: It's paywalled but you can skirt that by using incognito mode on your browser I think)


Which I think heads off anyone who tried to claim that the initial reports were BS because they were reported by some people who leaned right wing...this is a mainstream news source releasing their own article that back-up everything and makes some more revelations.


John Scalzi (who is a known Gaiman friend and has been silent unto now) has even weighed in that he is destroyed by this. And now it's trending on social media moreso than it was.


It's more brutal because it shows someone who seemed like the consummate ally, who stood for everything against this type of behaviour was a predator for decades in disguise.

I think the reaction that got to me the most was Tori Amos. As a longtime fan of hers when Ir had about how she found out...FFS Gaiman is Tash (her daughter)'s godfather...she said she didn't see any of this behaviour from him over the years and she thinks that because he knew how deeply she would reject it and not tolerate it...Tash found out first and prevented her mom from finding out wily nilly by making sure that her manager (and long time friend) was aware first and he was the one to break it to her...Tash knew this was going to destroy her mom and she knew the news had to come from someone she trusted.

The most telling part of the interview where she talks about it is at the end:

Quote

Does she still feel she has to battle sexism now? “Well, that’s an interesting question,” she says. “We don’t know what we’re facing, with a president who seems to be fireproof. So, with the population feeling emboldened – some of them – I don’t know what kind of behaviour we’re going to have to deal with. But, in some ways, because of where I am in my life, I’m sure that I have met men who treat me differently.” To the way they treat other women? “Yes. And is that because they dared not show it to me? Because I won’t tolerate it.” Her steely side comes out. “I won’t tolerate it. I won’t tolerate it with the crew …” You won’t let it happen around you? “No. No.” And people know that? “Oh yeah. Yes. But possibly there are wolves in sheep’s clothing.” She gives me a meaningful look. “And clearly we talked about that earlier.”

This is directly about Gaiman, wolves in sheep clothing indeed.

EDIT: I gave my Gaiman books (and SANDMAN absolute editions [one of which is signed peronsally]) to my best friend as he thinks he can stomach them still in light of this...I cannot. A whole section of my fandom and life in ashes, but it's a tiny fractional thing compared to what all these women went through with Gaiman.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 January 2025 - 04:41 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

I was just coming to post this article. I've got an Archive version which avoids the paywall.

https://archive.is/2...dman-madoc.html

Terribly sad indeed. I still have all my Sandman graphic novels and while I am loathe to give them up, I have some thinking to do. And about Sandman S2. And if they ever do an Act 4 on Audible.

I know it's not about me, but dang.

[QuickTidal]

Some of the stuff in that article is not just bad, it's EVIL. Amanda saying that even she was disturbed by the dark twisted shit in his head and that it scared her...


This article is so much more in depth than what we'd had before...I am beyond disturbed.

[QuickTidal]

And Amanda Palmer (who I was giving SOME benefit of the doubt previously) comes off almost like Ghislaine Maxwell....pretty much lining up women for him in some cases and it sounds like they used to prey on them together...but yeah sending Scarlett (at the very least) into the vipers den and telling the snake not to bite her? Ugh, she's just as bad. And the latter philosophical BS she tried to peddle about being there for her...

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah it's a really awful, harrowing article. For those who haven't read it there are some very explicit descriptions of very degraded sexual assault and rape. Like really nasty stuff.

Both he and to a lesser extent Palmer are monsters.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 13 January 2025 - 07:07 PM, said:

Yeah it's a really awful, harrowing article. For those who haven't read it there are some very explicit descriptions of very degraded sexual assault and rape. Like really nasty stuff.

Both he and to a lesser extent Palmer are monsters.

I'm glad there are trigger warnings on it, as for some people it could be really triggering to any trauma they experienced that was similar.

[Maark Abbott]

I think I'll save myself from reading it, but... damn

I don't understand this sort of thing. Hopefully I never will.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

I won't pay for anything by Gaiman again. But the work has value that transcends the author. And some of it is actually more interesting (from psychological, sociological, et cetera standpoints) in light of what he's apparently been doing (and could be doing more of at almost any given moment, given his ability to travel), if in horrifying and revolting ways.

Gaiman as Madoc...

Too bad there isn't a good way to separate payments to Gaiman from payments to all the other people who helped produce the works he wrote when purchasing something by them. Well, no legal way... and I'd suppose direct payments might seem a little suspicious.

Wasn't aware of his horrible and apparently traumatic upbringing in the Church of Scientology (didn't even know that was much of a thing in the UK, yikes, much less of his parents' pivotal role). Of course that doesn't excuse his behavior, though it perhaps explains some elements of its genesis.

Wonder if the market for signed copies of early editions etc has already collapsed. Someone gave me one of one once I think, but I'm not going to bother checking.

[Macros]

Yoh, I got half way and just stopped reading.
My wife got me the beautiful leatherbound omnibus sandman volume 1 and 2.
I have only got half way through #1
I won't be finishing them

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

The original accusations were bad enough, but so much of that is beyond disturbing. And I agree with QT's assessment of Amanda Palmer from that as well. She I previously thought might be halfway decent, if odd.

I hope there are legal consequences for both of them - and I feel so sorry for their son, who really shouldn't be around either of them.

A slightly odd thought crossed my mind, in that part of me is glad Terry Pratchett didn't live to see all this come out.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 14 January 2025 - 10:07 AM

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 January 2025 - 09:30 AM, said:

I hope there are legal consequences for both of them - and I feel so sorry for their son, who really shouldn't be around either of them.

The trauma of his tumultuous life around them while they faffed about and then divorced and had randos come stay and Gaiman leaving during lockdown and all of that will mess him up enough...but the rest of it is so much worse and that kid is going to need a lot of therapy to deal with it.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 January 2025 - 09:30 AM, said:

A slightly odd thought crossed my mind, in that part of me is glad Terry Pratchett didn't live to see all this come out.

As with Tori and Scalzi and a few others who were good friends with him and are quite shocked...he knew VERY much who to hide it from, and people like him are exceptionally good at hiding this shit....so I agree I'm glad Terry wasn't alive to see this fall...it would have devastated him.

Another odd thought, I used to wonder if Tori and Neil ever got together behind closed doors back in the day when she was name checking him in songs and he was putting her into Stardust...but after all this came out it's clear he has a type - all these women that we've seen images of (and Amanda too) have a VERY specific look...and Tori ain't it.


When people ask me recently why I'm reading so many more SFF authors who are women these days rather than men, my answer is "Well, because so many male SFF authors end up being complete shitbags". I'm not putting these people on a pedestal or anything, but I'd much rather not give my money to shitbags so they can get even more clout and hide their disgusting skeletons.

EDIT: I'm also curious about Holly, Maddy, and Michael. All of whom are grown and out of the nest (their mom was Gaiman's first wife, a scientologist named Mary)...but they all had tight relationships with their dad...did they know or did he hide this from them too? They have their social media all set to private now (I think since this summer to be honest)...If they didn't know this would likely devastate them too. I can't imagine learning your dad was....this. My gods.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 January 2025 - 02:02 PM

[the broken]

Even worse than I expected, I couldn't even read all of it.

[Abyss]

I could almost (almost) write off the early stuff to hit piece spin but now... yeah, this is bad and worse.

Will be interesting to see whether Netflix kills Sandman S2 and/or Audible kills audiodrama S4. DC also staying quiet but i wouldn't expect any new collected editions any time soon.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 14 January 2025 - 04:21 PM, said:

I could almost (almost) write off the early stuff to hit piece spin but now... yeah, this is bad and worse.

Will be interesting to see whether Netflix kills Sandman S2 and/or Audible kills audiodrama S4. DC also staying quiet but i wouldn't expect any new collected editions any time soon.

I could see Netflix just axing SANDMAN even though it sounds like it's mostly complete...just to avoid then bad press....I loved S1, but I won't be watching if they drop S2.


I expect this is a career-killer now....aside from the police involvement that is likely incoming (Vulture would not have posted if the stuff they let the author publish wasn't iron clad in sources; so stuff like Amanda's comment about Ash being in that room without headphones and whatnot is sourced) about their kid, and likely more on the SA front with him AND Amanda...their careers are both effectively over now forever. They MIGHT do what other people who were found out to be shitty did and shift to the right wing grift...but something tells me not. I can't see anyone wanting anything to do with his work now, and from a revenue POV large chunks of that article would be radioactive to any company be they Netflix, or Amazon, or whoever else...just toast, the whole thing.