[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Evan Rachel Wood names Marilyn Manson as her abuser, more women come forward

[...] "He started grooming me when I was a teenager and horrifically abused me for years. I was brainwashed and manipulated into submission. I am done living in fear of retaliation, slander, or blackmail. [...]"

[...] four more women have come forward with allegations against Manson, posted to Instagram: Ashley Walters, Sarah McNeilly, Ashley Lindsay Morgan, and a woman named Gabriella described their own traumatic experiences with Manson, including allegations of physical and psychological abuse and sexual assault. All four women say they are still suffering from PTSD as a result.

Manson has yet to comment on the allegations, but an attorney for the musician denied similar accusations in 2018. In May of that year, a police report was filed accusing Manson of unspecified sex crimes that occurred in 2011. Speaking with The Hollywood Reporter, Manson’s attorney Howard E. King said, “allegations made to the police were and are categorically denied by Mr. Warner and are either completely delusional or part of a calculated attempt to generate publicity…. Any claim of sexual impropriety or imprisonment at that, or any other, time is false.”

Wood has spoken publicly on more than one occasion about her experiences in an abusive relationship: Following the 2016 presidential election, she told Rolling Stone, “I’ve been raped. By a significant other while we were together. [...]"

[...] "I mustered the courage to leave several times, but he would call my house incessantly and threaten to kill himself. On one occasion, I returned to try and defuse the situation, he cornered me in our bedroom, and asked me to kneel. Then he tied me up by my hands and feet. Once I was restrained he beat me and shocked sensitive parts of my body with a torture device called a violet wand. To him it was a way for me to prove my loyalty. The pain was excruciating. It felt like I left my body and a part of me died that day."'

https://news.avclub....Ur9QSed0OxY3BBQ

[amphibian]

I initially was going to say that it's been fairly widely known that Manson abused at least Wood and McGowan for a few years.

I'm glad these women are getting the support and coverage that they want.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Marilyn Manson Dropped by Record Label After Several Women Accuse Him of Abuse

[...] Marilyn Manson’s record label, Loma Vista Recordings, cut ties with him Monday after several women accused him of abuse or assault, most notably among them Westworld actress Evan Rachel Wood. “Due to these concerning developments, we have also decided not to work with Marilyn Manson on any future projects,” the label said in a statement.'

https://www.thedaily...f=home?ref=home

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Had the misfortune to come across a statement from his PR after he terminated an interview with a magazine last year who asked about Wood. Words to the effect of "She's said positive things in the past, they got engaged, so clearly everything was fine".

I'm never surprised by those sorts of attitudes any more but they still make me so sad. It just perpetuates the idea that everyone who speaks up is lying.

[Tiste Simeon]

He was asked about it in an interview with Metal Hammer and immediately ended the interview. Obviously hit a nerve methinks...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Esmé Bianco, who played the character of Ros on Game of Thrones, has accused Marilyn Manson of abuse, going as far to describe him as a "monster who almost destroyed me." [...]

[...] things got physical in 2009 on a video shoot for his song "I Want to Kill You Like They Do in the Movies". The actress says Manson's violence against her began during the making of the video, when he told her, "You are gonna have to pretend to like being manhandled by me."

[...] the lines between acting and reality became blurred, with Manson plying her with cocaine, tying her with cables, lashing her with a whip, and using a painful electric sex toy on the wounds she sustained from the lashings. At the time, she was 26 years old and convinced herself that she formed a bond with Manson amid the violence.

The two then started an affair and eventually moved in together. The abuse allegedly continued at his West Hollywood home, as Bianco recalled Manson biting her without consent during sex and even cutting her with a knife at one point. "I basically felt like a prisoner," said Bianco. "I came and went at his pleasure. Who I spoke to was completely controlled by him. I called my family hiding in the closet."

Within a couple months of them living together, Manson allegedly chased Bianco around their apartment with an ax, at which point she fled and ended the relationship.

[...] Jenna Jameson, who dated him in the late '90s, recalled how he "fantasized about burning me alive".

Limp Bizkit's Wes Borland, who briefly played guitar in Manson's touring band, declared, "He is a bad f**king guy … that guy is canceled."'

https://consequenceo...baI_h0E8ldoyRSs

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 10 February 2021 - 10:56 PM

[Tsundoku]

More on the Joss Whedon accusations, with Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia), SMG, Michelle Trachtenberg (Dawn) and Amber Benson (Tara) releasing statements etc.

https://www.news.com...6622da9349dd09f

Buffy the Vampire Slayer cast speak out against ‘toxic’ creator Joss Whedon
Stars of the hit show Buffy are today speaking out against director Joss Whedon in a series of bombshell statements.

Nick Bond

NEWS.COM.AU2:22
Stars slam 'toxic' Buffy creator Joss Whedon
Stars of the hit show Buffy and across Hollywood have spoken out against the show's creator director Joss Whedon in a series of bombshell statements.
Stars of the iconic 90s TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer have today spoken out against the show’s creator director Joss Whedon, accusing him of fostering a “toxic environment” during the show’s seven seasons on air.

Actress Charisma Carpenter, who starred in both first three seasons of Buffy and another four seasons of the spin-off series Angel, was the first from the franchise to come forward, issuing a detailed statement on social media today.

She joined others including actor Ray Fisher and even Whedon’s own ex-wife who’ve spoken out against him in the past.

“For nearly two decades, I have held my tongue and even made excuses for certain events that traumatised me to this day,” Carpenter began.

“Joss Whedon abused his power on numerous occasions while working on the sets of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. While he found his misconduct amusing, it only served to intensify my performance anxiety, disempower me, and alienate me from my peers. The disturbing incidents triggered a chronic physical condition from which I still suffer. It is with a beating, heavy heart that I say I coped in isolation and, at times, destructively.”

Carpenter accused the director of berating her when she got a tattoo, of accusing her of getting “fat” when she became pregnant, and threatening to fire her several times.

She claimed that Whedon “manipulatively weaponized my womanhood and faith against me. He proceeded to attack my character, mock my religious beliefs, accuse me of sabotaging the show, and then unceremoniously fired me the following season once I gave birth.”

“Back then, I felt powerless and alone. With no other option, I swallowed the mistreatment and carried on. After all, I had a baby on the way, and I was the primary breadwinner of my growing family. Unfortunately, all this was happening during one of the most wonderful time in new motherhood. All that promise and joy sucked right out. And Joss was the vampire.”

Carpenter’s statement was retweeted by fellow Buffy actor Amber Benson, who had the recurring role of Tara for three seasons of the show.

“Buffy was a toxic environment and it starts at the top. Charisma is speaking truth and I support her 100%. There was a lot of damage done during that time and many of us are still processing it twenty plus years later,” she wrote, adding the hashtag “#IStandWithCharismaCarpenter.”

And Buffy herself, Sarah Michelle Gellar, then voiced her support for her co-stars while slamming Whedon.

“While I am proud to have my name associated with Buffy Summers, I don’t want to be forever associated with the name Joss Whedon,” she wrote on Instagram.

She said that as she is more focused on “raising my family and surviving a pandemic currently … I will not be making any further statement at this time. But I stand with all survivors of abuse and am proud of them for speaking out.”

Actress Michelle Trachtenberg, who played Dawn Summers across 66 episodes of Buffy, shared Gellar’s post along with several comments of her own. Thank you @sarahmgellar for saying this. I am brave enough now as a 35 year old woman.... To repost this. Because. This must. Be known. As a teenager. With his not appropriate behavior,” she wrote.

“You. Are my rock!! What he did was very bad. But we win. By surviving! We know what he did. Behind. The. Scenes.”

Both Carpenter and Benson included the hashtag #IStandWithRayFisher with their statements, in reference to the Justice League actor who last year spoke out against Whedon for his behaviour while directing the film.

Actress Clare Kramer, who played the character of Glory in 13 episodes of Buffy, tweeted her support for her former co-stars:

And Fisher threw his support behind Carpenter, calling her “one of the bravest people I know”:

Fisher accused the director of “gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable” behaviour on the set of the 2017 movie. Co-stars including Jason Momoa spoke out in his defence. “Serious stuff went down. It needs to be investigated and people need to be held accountable,” he wrote.

A few weeks after those posts, during a fan convention online panel, Fisher went further: “Obviously I put out some pretty strong words and some strong comments about Joss Whedon, and every single one of those words, every single one of those comments, is true.

“It’s taken me two and a half years to get all the information I need to be able to build something that’s strong enough so people can’t dismiss it.”

Fisher’s allegations led to an investigation into Whedon’s behaviour by Warner Media - an investigation Carpenter today revealed she participated in.

Whedon is yet to publicly respond to today’s allegations.

Whedon’s ex-wife, architect Kai Cole, accused the director of “multiple affairs” over their 15-year marriage in a piece written in 2017. According to Cole, the first of these supposed dalliances was on the set of Buffy.

“He hid multiple affairs and a number of inappropriate emotional ones that he had with his actresses, co-workers, fans and friends, while he stayed married to me,” Cole wrote.

“He deceived me for 15 years so he could have everything he wanted. I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for women’s rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with.

“But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinise his writing as anything other than feminist.”

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 11 February 2021 - 07:37 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Joss Whedon has been kicking around for a while, although it never seemed to touch him in any real way. It would be nice to think there might actually be some consequences at last.

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 11 February 2021 - 11:21 AM, said:

Joss Whedon has been kicking around for a while, although it never seemed to touch him in any real way. It would be nice to think there might actually be some consequences at last.

Yep, something needed to finally bring him down. He's been held up by his "geek god" status for too long by fans who simply refuse to believe the MANY stories and accusations.

And funnily enough, with regards to Fisher and Gadot JL talk about it, everyone was willing to shit talk Zack Snyder (because they hate his movies or whatever) and say then in the same breath Whedon "saved" a bad movie (which he re-wrote 80 pages of and reportedly terrorized the cast during reshoots)...when it's really that Whedon is awful and always has been and Snyder was apparently nothing but professional and easy to work with in juxtapose.

Oh and doesn't Elizabeth Olsen dislike him for putting Wanda into the boob-busting corset at the character age of 17 for AoU?

Yeah, the guy is a scumbag. I can't even bring myself to re-watch BUFFY.

[Malankazooie]

Not sure if this is specifically #MeToo material, but it is tangentially related > watched that Britney Spears doc, "Framing Britney Spears". Really sad. Fuck her dad and his attorney. Also, not a good look at all for Justin Timberlake, what a prick. Asshole news media personalities who interviewed her, fuck you Diane Sawyer. And holy shit the hounding and absolute saturation of the paparazzi around any thing she did. If you get a chance, you should watch it. Just expect to be angry, but more so just really sad after watching.

[QuickTidal]

The Andrew Cuomo accusations.


Here's the problem. Boomer men (and sometimes women) AS A GENERATION...are like this more often than not. The handsy, overly touchy, overly sexualized behaviour with women...it's an absolutely cancerous mentality that so many men Cuomo's age do and think is just them "being friendly".

I say this because I worked with a Boomer and even with me, a random younger dude he was overly touchy and feely (just not in a sexual way with me)...I don't like being touched...I'm really uncomfortable by it. So this guy would like put his hands on may shoulders, or his arm around my neck in a "we're pals, I can do this, this is how bros are" way...and I cringed (I never mentioned it to anyone until after he retired and said how uncomfortable he made me)....so I can't even imagine what it would feel like as a woman when there is a sexual charge to the action.

We've heard this same story now too many times...the same older male from that boomer era (the era of free love and hippies and sexuality) that thinks that what they personally do in this regard is fine because they "don't mean anything by it"....

Cuomo, like so many others probably didn't even LOOK at himself when MeToo hit...he was probably like "Well that's not ME."....but yes dude, it IS you. Your whole generation is rampant with this exact behaviour, just to varying degrees.

For the record, here is Cuomo with one of his accusers...I can FEEL her awkwardness at having to be face grabbed by him. Ugh.

 cuomo.jpg (72.96K)
Number of downloads: 0

[amphibian]

I have a very close friend who works fairly high up in politics. She's been on the NY Times front page accidentally while standing next to someone else in politics etc.

She's turned down positions in the governor's office for about 4 years because there's rumors of abusive stuff happening all the time over there.

Cuomo is not alone in generating an abusive workplace and where my friend works is actually an abusive workplace, but hers is not one that includes sexual harassment. That's part of why she constantly declined positions in his branch.

The really obvious sexual harassment is new to most people and there's a fair chance he goes down in flames over this due to the Senate Majority Leader and the Attorney General pushing the investigation out of JCOPE (which would have buried this as a favor to Cuomo).

This post has been edited by amphibian: 02 March 2021 - 05:43 PM

[Cause]

I’m not too familiar with the story beyond that accusations have been made and that an independent investigation is going to happen.

But I wanted to say quicktidal what your describing is not sexualharrasment, it’s making people uncomfortable. I’m probably similar to you in that I’m sometimes amazed at the casual way people will reach out and touch me. It’s something I can’t do myself. I hesitate to touch people. Some people are wired differently.

What your describing though, if the women doesn’t make her feeling about the unwanted contact clear, or doesn’t tell HR for example. Why would someone stop?

Not saying there isn’t more to this story than just shoulder touching (I’m commenting only on what you said) but there is a difference between that and rape, groping, implying promotions are tied to sex etc.

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 02 March 2021 - 07:16 PM, said:

But I wanted to say quicktidal what your describing is not sexualharrasment, it’s making people uncomfortable.

Touching someones face like in the photo is 100% harassment if it's unwanted. Whether it's sexually charged or not is not really quantifiable.

Cause, on 02 March 2021 - 07:16 PM, said:

What your describing though, if the women doesn’t make her feeling about the unwanted contact clear, or doesn’t tell HR for example. Why would someone stop?

Why is it on the victim to vocalize their discomfort when the other party, the offending party can just...you know...not touch them.

If someone in your workplace touches you in any way...that's inappropriate, full stop. My co-workers and boss have no reason whatsoever to touch me in an average day.

Like I find it not at all hard to not touch my co-workers, or say and do things that might make them uncomfortable.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 02 March 2021 - 07:39 PM

[Macros]

in your mind yes.

I half with Cause on this one. Sometimes people are just comfortable touching people and grew up in environments where constant physical touch is normal.

I'm not equating that with the bizarre face grab Coumo is doing above, that's just odd at the very least.

If me putting my hand on our shoulder makes you uncomfortable, it absolutely is on you to let me know somehow, otherwise I will keep doing it. If I persist after knowing it makes you uncomfortable, its a fucking problem.
The guy you worked with, probably had NO idea it was bothering you. I do that with my work colleagues all the time, physical contact doesn't overly bother me. But if someone made it clear they disliked it, I wouldn't do it.

[amphibian]

Would it change things to know that Cuomo asked this woman if she was ok with sexual relationships with older men and then followed that up by saying he was ok with "going down in age" as far as her exact age?

[Macros]

I think we can all agree that is something totally different than the person at work QT was describing, and what I was talking about.

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 02 March 2021 - 09:05 PM, said:

in your mind yes.

I half with Cause on this one. Sometimes people are just comfortable touching people and grew up in environments where constant physical touch is normal.

I'm not equating that with the bizarre face grab Coumo is doing above, that's just odd at the very least.

If me putting my hand on our shoulder makes you uncomfortable, it absolutely is on you to let me know somehow, otherwise I will keep doing it. If I persist after knowing it makes you uncomfortable, its a fucking problem.
The guy you worked with, probably had NO idea it was bothering you. I do that with my work colleagues all the time, physical contact doesn't overly bother me. But if someone made it clear they disliked it, I wouldn't do it.

I get what you’re saying...but a part of me is still “why do they need to touch anyone”? But I’m probably overly sensitive to it because I don’t like that sort of interaction.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 03 March 2021 - 12:08 AM, said:

Macros, on 02 March 2021 - 09:05 PM, said:

in your mind yes.

I half with Cause on this one. Sometimes people are just comfortable touching people and grew up in environments where constant physical touch is normal.

I'm not equating that with the bizarre face grab Coumo is doing above, that's just odd at the very least.

If me putting my hand on our shoulder makes you uncomfortable, it absolutely is on you to let me know somehow, otherwise I will keep doing it. If I persist after knowing it makes you uncomfortable, its a fucking problem.
The guy you worked with, probably had NO idea it was bothering you. I do that with my work colleagues all the time, physical contact doesn't overly bother me. But if someone made it clear they disliked it, I wouldn't do it.

I get what you're saying...but a part of me is still "why do they need to touch anyone"? But I'm probably overly sensitive to it because I don't like that sort of interaction.

'Even fleeting contact with a stranger can have a measurable effect, both fostering and enhancing cooperation. In research [...] clerks at a university library returned library cards to students either with or without briefly touching the student's hand. Student interviews revealed that those who'd been touched evaluated the clerk and the library more favorably. The effect held even when students hadn't noticed the touch.

More recent studies have found that seemingly insignificant touches yield bigger tips for waitresses, that people shop and buy more if they're touched by a store greeter, and that strangers are more likely to help someone if a touch accompanies the request. [...] "Lots of times in these studies people don't even remember being touched. They just feel there's a connection, they feel that they like that person more," [...]

[...] tracked physical contact between teammates during NBA games (consider all those chest bumps, high fives, and backslaps). The study revealed that the more on-court touching there was early in the season, the more successful teams and individuals were by season's end. The effect of touch was independent of salary or performance, eliminating the possibility that players touch more if they're more skilled or better compensated.

"We were very surprised. Touch predicted performance across all the NBA teams," [...] "Basketball players sometimes don't have time to say an encouraging word to a teammate; instead, they developed this incredible repertoire of touch to communicate quickly and accurately," he explains, adding that touch can likely improve performance across any cooperative context. As with our primate relatives, who strengthen social bonds by grooming each other, in humans, "touch strengthens relationships and is a marker of closeness," he says. "It increases cooperation but is also an indicator of how strong bonds are between people."

[...] it may be because "when you stimulate the pressure receptors in the skin, you lower stress hormones," [...] At the same time, warm touch stimulates release of [...] oxytocin, which enhances a sense of trust and attachment.'

https://www.psycholo...the-power-touch

I was touch-averse for a long time (my French and Latinx relatives were/are just the opposite...). But after I read about those studies, I decided to learn how to do social touch, and mostly got over my aversion to it in the process. (At the same time I was training myself to recognize microexpressions---there are some software programs for seeing fleeting microexpressions---and notice body language, including subtle signs of discomfort.) However, after a few years I mostly stopped---partly because some people do have an adverse reaction (or read dominance or competition or sexual interest into it), and partly because it's an unnecessary potential exchange of microbes. But on an affective level it doesn't bother me (at least after I remind myself that it shouldn't, and remember how to feel comfortable with it), and I readily go back to doing it reflexively if the other person is doing it.

But iirc some people have argued that flirtation or sexual/romantic relations in the workplace can also increase cohesion, for people are into it. There's even the argument that ancient Greek pederasty fostered a deeper bond, etc. However, those are cases where I think most would now agree the negatives outweigh potential positives. Social touch (at least when not misinterpreted) is many orders of magnitude down from all of those, but there's still the question of where (and in what circumstances) to draw the line wrt potential discomfort, especially when people may be reluctant to openly express discomfort.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 03 March 2021 - 02:59 AM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 03 March 2021 - 02:52 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 March 2021 - 12:08 AM, said:

Macros, on 02 March 2021 - 09:05 PM, said:

in your mind yes.

I half with Cause on this one. Sometimes people are just comfortable touching people and grew up in environments where constant physical touch is normal.

I'm not equating that with the bizarre face grab Coumo is doing above, that's just odd at the very least.

If me putting my hand on our shoulder makes you uncomfortable, it absolutely is on you to let me know somehow, otherwise I will keep doing it. If I persist after knowing it makes you uncomfortable, its a fucking problem.
The guy you worked with, probably had NO idea it was bothering you. I do that with my work colleagues all the time, physical contact doesn't overly bother me. But if someone made it clear they disliked it, I wouldn't do it.

I get what you're saying...but a part of me is still "why do they need to touch anyone"? But I'm probably overly sensitive to it because I don't like that sort of interaction.

'Even fleeting contact with a stranger can have a measurable effect, both fostering and enhancing cooperation. In research [...] clerks at a university library returned library cards to students either with or without briefly touching the student's hand. Student interviews revealed that those who'd been touched evaluated the clerk and the library more favorably. The effect held even when students hadn't noticed the touch.

More recent studies have found that seemingly insignificant touches yield bigger tips for waitresses, that people shop and buy more if they're touched by a store greeter, and that strangers are more likely to help someone if a touch accompanies the request. [...] "Lots of times in these studies people don't even remember being touched. They just feel there's a connection, they feel that they like that person more," [...]

[...] tracked physical contact between teammates during NBA games (consider all those chest bumps, high fives, and backslaps). The study revealed that the more on-court touching there was early in the season, the more successful teams and individuals were by season's end. The effect of touch was independent of salary or performance, eliminating the possibility that players touch more if they're more skilled or better compensated.

"We were very surprised. Touch predicted performance across all the NBA teams," [...] "Basketball players sometimes don't have time to say an encouraging word to a teammate; instead, they developed this incredible repertoire of touch to communicate quickly and accurately," he explains, adding that touch can likely improve performance across any cooperative context. As with our primate relatives, who strengthen social bonds by grooming each other, in humans, "touch strengthens relationships and is a marker of closeness," he says. "It increases cooperation but is also an indicator of how strong bonds are between people."

[...] it may be because "when you stimulate the pressure receptors in the skin, you lower stress hormones," [...] At the same time, warm touch stimulates release of [...] oxytocin, which enhances a sense of trust and attachment.'

https://www.psycholo...the-power-touch

I was touch-averse for a long time (my French and Latinx relatives were/are just the opposite...). But after I read about those studies, I decided to learn how to do social touch, and mostly got over my aversion to it in the process. (At the same time I was training myself to recognize microexpressions---there are some software programs for seeing fleeting microexpressions---and notice body language, including subtle signs of discomfort.) However, after a few years I mostly stopped---partly because some people do have an adverse reaction (or read dominance or competition or sexual interest into it), and partly because it's an unnecessary potential exchange of microbes. But on an affective level it doesn't bother me (at least after I remind myself that it shouldn't, and remember how to feel comfortable with it), and I readily go back to doing it reflexively if the other person is doing it.

But iirc some people have argued that flirtation or sexual/romantic relations in the workplace can also increase cohesion, for people are into it. There's even the argument that ancient Greek pederasty fostered a deeper bond, etc. However, those are cases where I think most would now agree the negatives outweigh potential positives. Social touch (at least when not misinterpreted) is many orders of magnitude down from all of those, but there's still the question of where (and in what circumstances) to draw the line wrt potential discomfort, especially when people may be reluctant to openly express discomfort.

Huh, interesting stuff indeed.