[Nevyn]

Briar King, on 06 December 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

My Dvr cut off when credits started.

You did not miss much

Spoiler

Just a bonus scene of tattoo girl cutting off her arm and killing people.

No important plot details

[Traveller]

Holy fuck. That was sooo very good. Best tv I've watched all year.

But

Spoiler

no more Hopkins?! I'm already hoping that one was a host/clone of himself. He's such an awesome actor, I don't want him out of it yet.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 06 December 2016 - 10:57 PM

[amphibian]

It was consciousness and the question of volition/difference at the core. I'm interested if Season Two fast forwards into a sporadic war between the bots and the people on the outside. I think staying with the Ford/Man in Black driven narrative will be something the writers don't want to do.

Pretty damn good first season, although it's much easier to succeed with a show like this than Game of Thrones, which probably has the best location scouting of all time.

[Traveller]

The 'SW' was a nice hint at just how big this could get. Although I'm really not sure how they'll handle it from now on; it's been about the Park and the rise of consciousness, but once this has happened in more than a few isolated cases the Park ceases to function, and it becomes a different show entirely.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 06 December 2016 - 11:42 PM

[Malankazooie]

The satisfaction on The Man in Black's face during that ending was worth the price of admission.

So, there was a "Futureworld" movie back in the 70s. Is that where this will lead next? Is the park setting the same or is it a "future world?" so to speak (not knowing anything about the original movies myself).

[amphibian]

Malankazooie, on 06 December 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

The satisfaction on The Man in Black's face during that ending was worth the price of admission.

So, there was a "Futureworld" movie back in the 70s. Is that where this will lead next? Is the park setting the same or is it a "future world?" so to speak (not knowing anything about the original movies myself).

The premise of the original movie seemed to be that there were multiple parks ongoing. This season implied that there was only the one - but the samurai plus the Futureworld movie from before suggest that Delos may have other parks in operation. But... is that worth a rehashing of this story? Where does the story progress from here? It's up in the air and so far, this season was really great.

My only critique was that in the finale, there was a lengthy "tell you the exact happenings going on vis a vis the flashbacks and flashforwards and Ford explaining things to the viewer" part put in, maybe for people who have trouble remembering a whole season at once. I hate that and I wish it wasn't present in this one.

[Nevyn]

Traveller, on 06 December 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

Holy fuck. That was sooo very good. Best tv I've watched all year.

But

Spoiler

no more Hopkins?! I'm already hoping that one was a host/clone of himself. He's such an awesome actor, I don't want him out of it yet.

Spoiler

Makes a good hedge if nothing else. We're talking about a 78 year old actor. They could bring him back either through a plot twist or in flashbacks, but if he is suddenly unable to continue, no massive plot hole.

Plus it was a fucking awesome way to wrap up season one.

[Malankazooie]

s

amphibian, on 07 December 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

Malankazooie, on 06 December 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

The satisfaction on The Man in Black's face during that ending was worth the price of admission.

So, there was a "Futureworld" movie back in the 70s. Is that where this will lead next? Is the park setting the same or is it a "future world?" so to speak (not knowing anything about the original movies myself).

My only critique was that in the finale, there was a lengthy "tell you the exact happenings going on vis a vis the flashbacks and flashforwards and Ford explaining things to the viewer" part put in, maybe for people who have trouble remembering a whole season at once. I hate that and I wish it wasn't present in this one.

Yeah, I with you on this. The back and forth with Dolores (and you know who) in the finale was very much hand holding the audience who were clueless about what was going on. But I read on other forums that viewers were confused about what was happening, so I don't hate it, I think it was necessary.

[amphibian]

We are on a Malazan forum, so our ability to remember things and multiple plot-lines for a while has been tested and improved.

But seriously... this is only 10 hours of TV and most people watched this weekly if they're talking about this now. Aaarrrggghh. You're right about its necessity though. I wish it wasn't so.

[Malankazooie]

amphibian, on 07 December 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

We are on a Malazan forum, so our ability to remember things and multiple plot-lines for a while has been tested and improved.

But seriously... this is only 10 hours of TV and most people watched this weekly if they're talking about this now. Aaarrrggghh. You're right about its necessity though. I wish it wasn't so.

It's all good. I think it helped the show to dive deep into each character, especially

Spoiler

William / the Man in Black.

And to be honest, I'm not the most enlightened by any means. I mean, if someone can explain to me the role of

Spoiler

Teddy (James Mardsen)

in the grander scheme of it all, I'd be greatly appreciative.

[Traveller]

Malankazooie, on 07 December 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

amphibian, on 07 December 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

We are on a Malazan forum, so our ability to remember things and multiple plot-lines for a while has been tested and improved.

But seriously... this is only 10 hours of TV and most people watched this weekly if they're talking about this now. Aaarrrggghh. You're right about its necessity though. I wish it wasn't so.

It's all good. I think it helped the show to dive deep into each character, especially

Spoiler

William / the Man in Black.

And to be honest, I'm not the most enlightened by any means. I mean, if someone can explain to me the role of

Spoiler

Teddy (James Mardsen)

in the grander scheme of it all, I'd be greatly appreciative.

As far as I could make out,

Spoiler

Teddy was programmed to be the hero for Delores that always failed. When the Wyatt (program) was created to be his nemesis in the 'story', Teddy had a goal, an ojective - to save Delores and bring down Wyatt.

But Arnold merged the Delores and Wyatt programs. He gave Delores Wyatts murderous instincts, which we saw more and more of - and at the end, Delores finally chose who she wanted to be - the Wyatt side won.

Teddy is now screwed, as his love and his nemesis from the narrative are the same person - that final look of realisation crossed his face at the end.

Overall it was interesting to see what route they'd take with this. I thought, at the start, that the series would feature more guests - that the main characters would be the visitors; so when things start to go awry there are lots of people trapped within the park. But there were actually surprising few guests.

I'm not sure some concepts worked entirely.

Spoiler

I can see how the hosts had cycles of behaviour repeated for each guest, but does this mean only one or two enter the initial area at the same time? Were there more entry points we didn't get to see? What I mean is, if someone enters the park, meets Mave, but then returns a week later, will she say the same things like an extra in a computer game? When she dies and is put back, which is often, surely guests would see her again if they return to the same town?

I wonder if they'll change the focus for season two. Maybe even follow some from a time before the uprising, build their stories and create some parallel story arcs.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 07 December 2016 - 01:14 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

amphibian, on 07 December 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

We are on a Malazan forum, so our ability to remember things and multiple plot-lines for a while has been tested and improved.

But seriously... this is only 10 hours of TV and most people watched this weekly if they're talking about this now. Aaarrrggghh. You're right about its necessity though. I wish it wasn't so.

It was absolutely necessary. I've talked to some intelligent TV watchers, even one who's a GoT theorist, who still didn't understand the show, despite all the recapping in the finale.

[Nevyn]

Traveller, on 07 December 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

I'm not sure some concepts worked entirely.

Spoiler

I can see how the hosts had cycles of behaviour repeated for each guest, but does this mean only one or two enter the initial area at the same time? Were there more entry points we didn't get to see? What I mean is, if someone enters the park, meets Mave, but then returns a week later, will she say the same things like an extra in a computer game? When she dies and is put back, which is often, surely guests would see her again if they return to the same town?

Spoiler

This is part of why they have staff writing new narratives, so repeat visitors don't get bored by the sameness.

But William's brother in law gave a good window into the view of it from a repeat visitor. The initial town they were dropped off in would seem pretty repetitive, but there were tons of different adventures away from it to try out as one gets more and more experienced.

And judging by the dressing room hosts, I'm not sure all their customers make the train on their first visit

Also, the hosts are interacting with multiple guests at once, which would cause a fair bit of improvisation and variation. Heck it could be fun just going around town and trying to steer hosts off message.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 08 December 2016 - 02:22 PM

[Battalion]

Masterclass in acting by Hopkins, his delivery of lines was simply fuc*king awesome!
Great story-telling as well.

A few things ...

Spoiler

Did we see Maeve finally become sentient at the end. Up until the point she reads the whereabouts of her daughter, she was following Ford's instructions (for whatever reason he wanted her to leave the park? I assume she was there to destract the soliders from protecting the board and so on). But going back seemed to be her own decision ... What happened to the military guy? What happened to the girl on the board? Is the man in black going to survive? And what possible direction could season two take? Most of season one is flashbacks I guess season two is going to be all set in the now, which would make it an etirly different show to season one. The robots are going to take over. Maybe we'll have good robots and bad ones ... I can't see them spilling out of the park to overtake mankind because there are certain failsafes to prevent them from leaving the park.

[Traveller]

Battalion, on 08 December 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

Masterclass in acting by Hopkins, his delivery of lines was simply fuc*king awesome!
Great story-telling as well.

A few things ...

Spoiler

Did we see Maeve finally become sentient at the end. Up until the point she reads the whereabouts of her daughter, she was following Ford's instructions (for whatever reason he wanted her to leave the park? I assume she was there to destract the soliders from protecting the board and so on). But going back seemed to be her own decision ... What happened to the military guy? What happened to the girl on the board? Is the man in black going to survive? And what possible direction could season two take? Most of season one is flashbacks I guess season two is going to be all set in the now, which would make it an etirly different show to season one. The robots are going to take over. Maybe we'll have good robots and bad ones ... I can't see them spilling out of the park to overtake mankind because there are certain failsafes to prevent them from leaving the park.

Spoiler

This is why I think the smart thing to do would be a parallel timeline following different characters, with some overlap.
Then we wouldn't lose Hopkins, and they would be able to deal with the fallout from season one end later.

Re. Maeve..

Spoiler

she smashed the pda before she read what was there, but it got as far as them saying 'you make it to the train..' or something close, before she broke it. It might as easily said, she makes it to the train, remembers her daughter, then heads back into the park.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 08 December 2016 - 12:57 PM

[champ]

Traveller, on 08 December 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Battalion, on 08 December 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

Masterclass in acting by Hopkins, his delivery of lines was simply fuc*king awesome!
Great story-telling as well.

A few things ...

Spoiler

Did we see Maeve finally become sentient at the end. Up until the point she reads the whereabouts of her daughter, she was following Ford's instructions (for whatever reason he wanted her to leave the park? I assume she was there to destract the soliders from protecting the board and so on). But going back seemed to be her own decision ... What happened to the military guy? What happened to the girl on the board? Is the man in black going to survive? And what possible direction could season two take? Most of season one is flashbacks I guess season two is going to be all set in the now, which would make it an etirly different show to season one. The robots are going to take over. Maybe we'll have good robots and bad ones ... I can't see them spilling out of the park to overtake mankind because there are certain failsafes to prevent them from leaving the park.

Spoiler

This is why I think the smart thing to do would be a parallel timeline following different characters, with some overlap.
Then we wouldn't lose Hopkins, and they would be able to deal with the fallout from season one end later.

Re. Maeve..

Spoiler

she smashed the pda before she read what was there, but it got as far as them saying 'you make it to the train..' or something close, before she broke it. It might as easily said, she makes it to the train, remembers her daughter, then heads back into the park.

Re: Maeve:

If you pause and zoom it actually said:

Spoiler

Infiltrate the mainland so this would suggest she has become sentient.

[Traveller]

Ah. Maybe all part of the plan though..

Spoiler

The program may have been written to do just that, but Ford may have anticipated that her memories of the pain of losing her daughter would overide it.. giving her sentience in a similar way that he has done to Bernhard.

Shame we have to wait so long to find out.

[Battalion]

Traveller, on 08 December 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Ah. Maybe all part of the plan though..

Spoiler

The program may have been written to do just that, but Ford may have anticipated that her memories of the pain of losing her daughter would overide it.. giving her sentience in a similar way that he has done to Bernhard.

Shame we have to wait so long to find out.

This is what my brother thinks - it's all part of Ford's master plan.

Spoiler

also he thinks Ford faked his own death with the use of a host

[champ]

Battalion, on 09 December 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

Traveller, on 08 December 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Ah. Maybe all part of the plan though..

Spoiler

The program may have been written to do just that, but Ford may have anticipated that her memories of the pain of losing her daughter would overide it.. giving her sentience in a similar way that he has done to Bernhard.

Shame we have to wait so long to find out.

This is what my brother thinks - it's all part of Ford's master plan.

Spoiler

also he thinks Ford faked his own death with the use of a host

Definitely...

Spoiler

By the end of it all, Ford was trying to finish Arnold's work.

There was no way he didn't know what he was doing with Maeve.

Also we never found out who the Host was that Ford was creating whilst Theresa got killed...

[Traveller]

Because it wouldn't really make sense for Ford to

Spoiler

just kill himself as his plans were coming together. Writers have characters sacrifice themselves far more often on screen than I find believable - people aren't as 'disposable' in RL, and usually only really end themselves as an act of desperation.

It raises some interesting questions about just how much control Ford has over the hosts. From what we've seen it looks pretty total - making a 'host' Ford plausible.

Did we ever find out what happened to the security guy? Or was that scene there just to show us more of Ford's 'army', that presumably only respond to him?

This post has been edited by Traveller: 09 December 2016 - 10:39 AM