[Binder of Demons]

Since BK suggested it, it might be worth having a dedicated thread for the series.

For those unfamiliar with it thus far, the premise is that LUCIFER has decided to abdicate his position as lord of the underworld, and has relocated to L.A. to enjoy himself for a bit. While there, he meets a detective who seems to be immune to his 'charms', and so he's intrigued, and we get a buddy cop scenario. This allows the show to have a 'case of the week', while also allowing the longer story of the fallout from his abandoning hell.

As I've said in the TV thread, the writing has been a bit uneven so far, but has shown signs of improvement, and it is already good easy viewing. I'm really looking forward to seeing how adventurous they get to be with this.

[Binder of Demons]

@ BK - I haven't seen the trailer for next weeks ep, but I was gonna say that your idea was indeed very likely.

You can be fairly sure that the female detective will be given some powers at some point too (if she already doesn't have some sort of latent powers or mysterious past). If this was airing around Halloween time I'd have said they couldn't resist doing it.

I wonder if they have the rights to introduce any more characters from the SANDMAN universe?

[Binder of Demons]

Briar King, on 10 February 2016 - 01:09 AM, said:

Sandman is a bk, comic? I didn't know the show was based off a project. That makes me a bit leary. I don't want a set path from source. I'd prefer free reign but the show has been one of the best Ep 1-3 I've seen in a long time so I maybe fearing over nothing.

SANDMAN is a pretty awesome series of Graphic Novels by Neil Gaiman, which focuses on a number of immortals (known as The Endless), with the titular 'Sandman' being the principal character. Can't remember many specifics since it's around 10 years since I read it, except that there were 7 'Endless', and their names all began with the letter 'D'. The main character was Dream (aka Sandman), and there was Death, Desire, Delerium and a few others whose names escape me off the top of m head. There was then a spin-off series called LUCIFER, but I never read that, but I know it also ran for several years.

It actually gives me some hope that they can do a good job on this series BECAUSE they have some source material to work with if they want to, and can cherry pick the cool bits, while not being beholden to stories that everyone knows already.

[amphibian]

The Lucifer comic series was written by Mike Carey and it is as good or better than the Gaiman run on Sandman. It has a rough beginning (grisly story involving assault of a homosexual man in Germany), then settles into some of the finest explorations of what it means to be alive in a world/universe full of long past history and teeming masses.

The show Lucifer already departs greatly from the comics - which is a smart move. However, the biggest departure is in the nature of Lucifer himself. The comics version is very David Bowie-ish. Very aloof, very unwilling to accept anyone or anything fucking with it. Its biggest motivation is not that mortals die, but that the killers of the mortals are fucking with Lucifer and that will not stand. The show Lucifer is much more approachable and more caring of what happens to mortals.

I honestly questioned why they went with the departure from David Bowie, especially with his recent battle with cancer being a thing.

[Gnaw]

I"m really hoping this takes off for multiple seasons, action figures, movies, spin-offs, etc.

Rupert Murdoch's Fox Network is actively creating the very culture Rupert Murdoch's Fox News Network so actively declaims.

[Ribald]

I thought it was remarkably similar to Constantine, but went for a more 'charming' protagonist and a much more starkly realised police procedural aspect, rather than a mystical threat of the week.

But it is interesting.

[Tsundoku]

Ep 3 - *points at picture on computer screen* "Ginger lad. Soulless bastards. Give even me the creeps."

[acesn8s]

I watched epis 1-3 over the weekend. There are some clever/charming points, but I want more range from Lucifer and more than just "what do you desire?" Show me some angelic, older than humanity insight when asking a question.

[Binder of Demons]

I think episode 4 was a good step forward from the first 3 (and I've thoroughly enjoyed those).

There were some nice little moments which ask a few questions about what's going on, and what direction it will take going forward (particularly liked the meeting between Maze and Amenadiel). There are still plenty of things that could be improved, and tightened up, but I think the progress has been solid enough so far.

[Cause]

I thought the pilot had promise. Episode 2 and 3 looked terrible. He went from being someone people could not lie too about their true hearts desire to him having to look someone in the eyes and ask 'what is your greatest desire'. Every time he does that I now cringe. That is not the power of Lucifer.


That said I am also mildly amused that a few Christians managed to get the channel that bought the shows rights here in south Africa to agree to pull the show after just one episode.

[Tsundoku]

I'd like to see the show explore some of the more interesting possibilities, while keeping the light charm.

As in, references to free will, did he actually say it was better to reign in hell than serve in heaven, is being the Devil a calling or more of a job etc?
I'm sure decent writers could work that sort of stuff in without it just being expository infodumps.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 17 February 2016 - 11:50 AM

[acesn8s]

Tsundoku, on 17 February 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

is being the Devil a calling or more of a job etc?

He does seem driven to punish people doesn't he?

[polishgenius]

So, for those who have read it, and watched so far, beyond having a Lucifer who's abandoned Hell as the main character does this have any relation to the comics at all? The complete absence of any such signs in the trailers is the main reason I haven't bothered with this so far.

Quote

Sandman is a bk, comic? I didn't know the show was based off a project. That makes me a bit leary. I don't want a set path from source. I'd prefer free reign but the show has been one of the best Ep 1-3 I've seen in a long time so I maybe fearing over nothing.

Sandman is probably the best comic I've ever read. Would be very very difficult to adapt though, since there's a whole bunch of narratives and storylines that seem pretty much standalone, often barely related to each other at all, but every single thing comes together towards the end. Just from a practical perspective it would be incredibly difficult to put together.

The Lucifer spinoff is more straightforward, and imo not quite as good, but still a pretty awesome epic fantasy series.

Quote

However, the biggest departure is in the nature of Lucifer himself. The comics version is very David Bowie-ish. Very aloof, very unwilling to accept anyone or anything fucking with it. Its biggest motivation is not that mortals die, but that the killers of the mortals are fucking with Lucifer and that will not stand. The show Lucifer is much more approachable and more caring of what happens to mortals.

That was one thing that I really liked about it - despite being a charming and sometimes even likeable protagonist, who did end up doing overall good, the book never forgets that this is Lucifer - a perfectly selfish and perfectly arrogant being, who only does good if it happens to be in his interest.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 17 February 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

So, for those who have read it, and watched so far, beyond having a Lucifer who's abandoned Hell as the main character does this have any relation to the comics at all? The complete absence of any such signs in the trailers is the main reason I haven't bothered with this so far.

Episodes one and two have absolutely nothing to do with the comics other than having Lucifer and Maizikeen in it. Maizikeen is kinda close to her comic self in very limited screen time.

The first two episodes are kinda like bad Angel episodes, if that makes sense. It's still early on the show finding itself timeline, but so far, this is not a good show. Despite good work from the actors.

[amphibian]

I'd prefer this as an opener to the Basanos homosexual assault of the comics tho.

[amphibian]

Episodes three and four have nothing to do with comics either.

They're also bad single episode procedurals. This stinks of suit meddling and I wouldn't be surprised if the show dies.

It's like the suits and writers both don't believe in what they are doing. Awful show.

[amphibian]

As a procedural, it doesn't work. The police work gets shoved off to the side to follow Lucifer around.

As a Lucifer show, it doesn't work either. The dialogue falls off a cliff whenever the angels/demons talk. The split between Maizikeen and Lucifer is happening too soon - we do not get to see what bonded the two or have them work together.

The best moments are when Lucifer interacts with the psychiatrist, which is a teethgritting thing because he is Lucifer Morningstar, the second or third most powerful entity in all of existence. If you read the comics, you would see that this unsure Lucifer is not right for his power or to carry the show. The psychiatrist is one of my favorite comedic actors out there and she was amazing in Surviving Jack, a show canceled after an amazing but non-ratings grabbing first season.

The one interesting dynamic is that Chloe is part angel thru her mother boinking an angel. But we are wasting time on other things instead of making her truly empathizable.

We are wasting time on Lucifer having sex or being a dilettante. He is basically Desire, not Lucifer.

The writers fucked this up either because they don't understand what they are doing or because the suits are ordering them to. It's in this bad in-between zone on almost everything and it will die because of that.

[amphibian]

Lucifer doesn't have to be David Bowie. But it is his implacable certainty that drove The Fall and The Abdication and everything in his life derives from it.

The show doesn't depict that in any form. It gives us a not that charming waste of space and asks us to like him without investing any work into stoking empathy or fascination.

[polishgenius]

I just discovered that DC (presumably in an attempt to catch any intrigued viewers from the TV show) has started a new Lucifer series. Reviews of the first issue are mixed but broadly positive, but I think my main concern is that the entire premise appears to fit awkwardly with parts of the end of Mike Carey's series, but it's very much a sequel.

[Binder of Demons]

While there is something nagging at me about this show, I still find myself really enjoying it.

Just watched episode 5, and while the police procedural aspect of the episode was only ok, they have continued to lay the ground for the long story arcs. One aspect of the show I thought would get pretty stale was the 'arrangement' Lucifer has with the psychiatrist, but they might have found a solution to that, which gives me hope. The other good thing about the episode was getting to find out a bit more about Maze (especially as I have no clue about the comics).

And while I think the main actor can be brilliant on occasion, they really need to vary his routine a bit more. I'm putting this on the writers, as there's not much he could do with the scenes as they are written (I'm referring to the already cliched 'tell me your deepest desires' etc). This becomes even more noticeable when Lucifer breaks from this routine (like when talking to Maze, or when he gets angry) and then there is a definite edge to his performance.

The show has it's flaws, but I'm still hopeful that it can improve as the writers get more comfortable with the characters. I'll definitely be watching anyway, but the next few eps will determine a lot.