[champ]

The bloke lost my money and interest long ago.

I need a reread of the series to get the full enjoyment out of the books, it's been too long for me to remember the little details but I won't be doing this as books 4 and 5 were dire.

Thank god for the TV series, least this way I'll get an end to the story within the next couple of years instead of decades.

[Arthur Dayne]

Honestly, after he blew up at his fans on his webpage for criticizing how he progressed with ADwD (Comic-con's and his other books still happened despite not updating his "work" for 2 years while stating "It's almost done...") i'm going to wait until the entire series is published and not bother to either read the books or watch the show. That way I'll know he doesn't need someone else to step in and finish the story because he died. I already did that for Jordan, and that's enough for one lifetime.

[Aptorian]

Ceda Cicero, on 04 January 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Apt, on 04 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

So first you dismiss his attempt at directly addressing the issue. His attempt at being honest and straight forward with the fanbase you interpret as whinning.

Then you give your own Web MD diagnosis of the guy and determine that GRRM has ADD, depression, is unable to manage his own life and that he needs a therapist? A person you've never had a conversation with.

Maybe you could throw some personal insults about his sexuality and weight in there while you're checking all those "How to be mean on the internet" check boxes.

Whoa Mr. Defensive, hold the phone. Are you the same Apt that on the previous page of this thread discussed how "appalling" you find GRRM's work ethic? Why are you suddenly such an apologist? First off, I'm not dismissing his attempt at directly addressing the issue—I just don't think it'll do any good at all and is the equivalent of feeding the trolls.

If anything, my perspective and argument here is actually more merciful and empathetic than yours. I'm saying the guy seems to be hurting and struggling. This cycle has been going on for years with GRRM. This blog post was the first of its kind about TWoW, but one of hundreds of its kind he's made over the years. So no, I'm not an expert and no, I've never had a conversation with the guy, but I do think something slightly more complicated is going on than your reductive (and in my opinion far more "mean") assertion that his work ethic is intrinsically flawed.

Also, for what it's worth, I think pretty much anyone could benefit from a little therapy and to my mind suggesting that someone could use a therapist isn't loaded with the kind of judgment that you seem to think it is. Seriously, I guess at a second glance I could see you'd think I was being mean by throwing around terms like ADD and depression, but I wasn't doing it vindictively. GRRM himself said in his blog post he's slumped into depressive states over this. It's not being mean to extrapolate and infer.

We're going to completely derail this you and I but here goes...

The reason why I reacted so strongly is simple. There is a difference between criticizing (god damn it's hard spelling that word) somebody professionally and criticizing them personally.

I criticized GRRMs wortk ethic, as in his professional performance. By that I mean that I specifically find it galling hearing the stories of him working on other books, even if it's just a freaking foreword, and him traveling about attending conferences, etc. In my opinon you cannot apologize for delays if you are not focused on the project you should be working on. Literary gardening approach be damned.

You on the other hand went straight past any criticism of his output and went straight for his person.

You start out being overly familiar, addressing GRRM as "George" and then chose to criticize Martins choice of transparency, which is infuriating when transparency, honesty and insight into an authors work process is the most precious things we can get as literary fans.

Then you make all these very serious assumptions about another persons mental state of being. Using terms like "Likely has", "Probably struggles with", "Has absolutely zero grip". Completely unfounded guesses on an old mans mental well being. Why? Because his fucking books are delayed.

Now ignoring the social stigmas surrounding mental illness and the callousness of saying this kind of stuff about other people, even if you were a professional mental health physician, my main issue is with how lax some people can be on social media and how strong the language can be.

Imagine GRRM for some strange reason comes past this thread, he's probably procrastinating the bastard, and he sees a post like the above? He'll probably just shrug it off, right? But what if every fucking where an author goes, he sees this kind of shit? On forums, Twitter, his own blog, random newspaper columns, blog posts, etc. How do you deal with that kind of shit?

One thing is for somebody to say "I think your work is bad and here's why I think that" and saying "GRRM is a whining old man. I think he is mentally ill, unable to take care of himself and he needs to see a therapist." Maybe my views are just highly skewed but I think that's a crazy thing to say about a person whom you've never sat down and talked with. It's honestly the biggest gripe I have with modern media. People read about people, see video footage of them, and just make up these crazy, often inflammatory, opinions about a person they have never met.

You think it's feeding the trolls when he tells people of his work or his personal life on his blog. For him it's probably the best outlet he has for his frustrations and also the best way to stay in contact with his fanbase.

Look at this article on the reaction people had to his blogpost:

http://www.theguardi...of-ice-and-fire

This post has been edited by Apt: 04 January 2016 - 05:22 PM

[Ceda Cicero]

Apt, on 04 January 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

Ceda Cicero, on 04 January 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Apt, on 04 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

So first you dismiss his attempt at directly addressing the issue. His attempt at being honest and straight forward with the fanbase you interpret as whinning.

Then you give your own Web MD diagnosis of the guy and determine that GRRM has ADD, depression, is unable to manage his own life and that he needs a therapist? A person you've never had a conversation with.

Maybe you could throw some personal insults about his sexuality and weight in there while you're checking all those "How to be mean on the internet" check boxes.

Whoa Mr. Defensive, hold the phone. Are you the same Apt that on the previous page of this thread discussed how "appalling" you find GRRM's work ethic? Why are you suddenly such an apologist? First off, I'm not dismissing his attempt at directly addressing the issue—I just don't think it'll do any good at all and is the equivalent of feeding the trolls.

If anything, my perspective and argument here is actually more merciful and empathetic than yours. I'm saying the guy seems to be hurting and struggling. This cycle has been going on for years with GRRM. This blog post was the first of its kind about TWoW, but one of hundreds of its kind he's made over the years. So no, I'm not an expert and no, I've never had a conversation with the guy, but I do think something slightly more complicated is going on than your reductive (and in my opinion far more "mean") assertion that his work ethic is intrinsically flawed.

Also, for what it's worth, I think pretty much anyone could benefit from a little therapy and to my mind suggesting that someone could use a therapist isn't loaded with the kind of judgment that you seem to think it is. Seriously, I guess at a second glance I could see you'd think I was being mean by throwing around terms like ADD and depression, but I wasn't doing it vindictively. GRRM himself said in his blog post he's slumped into depressive states over this. It's not being mean to extrapolate and infer.

We're going to completely derail this you and I but here goes...

The reason why I reacted so strongly is simple. There is a difference between criticizing (god damn it's hard spelling that word) somebody professionally and criticizing them personally.

I criticized GRRMs wortk ethic, as in his professional performance. By that I mean that I specifically find it galling hearing the stories of him working on other books, even if it's just a freaking foreword, and him traveling about attending conferences, etc. In my opinon you cannot apologize for delays if you are not focused on the project you should be working on. Literary gardening approach be damned.

You on the other hand went straight past any criticism of his output and went straight for his person.

You start out being overly familiar, addressing GRRM as "George" and then chose to criticize Martins choice of transparency, which is infuriating when transparency, honesty and insight into an authors work process is the most precious things we can get as literary fans.

Then you make all these very serious assumptions about another persons mental state of being. Using terms like "Likely has", "Probably struggles with", "Has absolutely zero grip". Completely unfounded guesses on an old mans mental well being. Why? Because his fucking books are delayed.

Now ignoring the social stigmas surrounding mental illness and the callousness of saying this kind of stuff about other people, even if you were a professional mental health physician, my main issue is with how lax some people can be on social media and how strong the language can be.

Imagine GRRM for some strange reason comes past this thread, he's probably procrastinating the bastard, and he sees a post like the above? He'll probably just shrug it off, right? But what if every fucking where an author goes, he sees this kind of shit? On forums, Twitter, his own blog, random newspaper columns, blog posts, etc. How do you deal with that kind of shit?

One thing is for somebody to say "I think your work is bad and here's why I think that" and saying "GRRM is a whining old man. I think he is mentally ill, unable to take care of himself and he needs to see a therapist." Maybe my views are just highly skewed but I think that's a crazy thing to say about a person whom you've never sat down and talked with. It's honestly the biggest gripe I have with modern media. People read about people, see video footage of them, and just make up these crazy, often inflammatory, opinions about a person they have never met.

You think it's feeding the trolls when he tells people of his work or his personal life on his blog. For him it's probably the best outlet he has for his frustrations and also the best way to stay in contact with his fanbase.

Look at this article on the reaction people had to his blogpost:

http://www.theguardi...of-ice-and-fire

I see your point and am not to proud to admit it openly when I feel a little sheepish. I'll take responsibility for being careless with heavy words. My intent was not to be callous. Truly—as someone who's grappled with a host of mental health issues myself I was more than likely doing a little projecting and I'll own it.

I do still wonder about all of this. Where's the line? Because you're talking about it like it's very fixed (i.e.: professional criticism is fair game; personal is not) which I guess makes sense. But again. Who decides what constitutes professional vs. personal? Who decides what's logical to conclude or infer, or what constitutes harmless speculation vs. callous craziness? But whatever. That's a whole thing I'm not gonna get into.


This is not the first time I've waded into the GRRM discussion only to get shamed. After this, I'm done with it. Honestly, I'm less tired of the wait for new Ice and Fire material than I am of the ongoing discourse about the delay and the fact that it seems to draw out such emotion in people—myself included.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 04 January 2016 - 06:49 PM

[Aptorian]

You're right there is no clear lines. It does get weird some times. God knows I've said some pretty mean things about Terry Goodkind once or twice. If people put their name and person out there, of course people are going to discuss not just the persons work but also who how they view the person in relation to the work.

I just, personally, think there are certain lines. Generally I try to adhere to the saying: "If you wouldn't say it to the persons face, don't type it out in an internet comment". By all means, if you think GRRM legitimately has mental issues, you're free to voice that concern but then there's tone and phrasing.

God knows, I am not one to tell other people how they should act or speak, but I do get annoyed when I see people judge people based on what little information there usually is to go on. Mind you I am also of the opinion that it should legal to hunt and shoot tabloid reporters and paparazzi.

This post has been edited by Apt: 04 January 2016 - 07:01 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Apt, on 04 January 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

God knows I've said some pretty mean things about Terry Goodkind once or twice.

Yeah, but that's acceptable though. Pretty sure that just marks you as a functioning member of the human race

[polishgenius]

Maark, on 04 January 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Incidentally my comment about Sanderson does make me wonder if he'll finish this off as well. Probably not as there's a little too much naughty business in GRRM's stuff.

Why would you want Sanderson to finish it off anyway? Even if you think his writing is as good, he's totally the wrong sort.

GRRM has stated he won't be asking/giving notes to anyone in case of his death, but should he change his mind, Abyss' suggestion of the James SA Corey chaps is both by far the most likely suggestion and the most palatable one.

[Gorefest]

In a shock twist it will be Joe Abercrombie. 'A dream of spring' will be renamed 'A dream of spring blades'. Daenerys will take her dragons across the Narrow Sea and wipe out most of the great houses apart from the Dornish. The slaughter and the dragon rage will awaken her maniacal Targaryen side and she'll go madder than Aerys II. In Essos, as soon as she is gone slavery will be reinstated and all Danny sympathisers will be put in the fighting pits to perish in grisly ways, including Tyrion who in an ironic twist learns that he is impervious to fire mere seconds before a thrown torch sets alight a spectator stand, which collapses on top of him, crushing his body into a grisly pulp. The Martells find that the Targaryen that they were backing (young Aegon) is actually an illegitimate bastard son of Jon Connington and a serving wench at Griffin's Roost. Doran Martell subsequently decides to pledge fealty to Danny, but his attempt gets cut short when a ridiculously huge Kraken that lived under, or more precisely actually formed, the peninsula of Dorne, is awaked by Euron Greyjoy and pulls the entire landmass under water. Euron marries Danny, the Others break through the Wall completely unopposed because everyone was too busy down south, And everything seems lost. The dragons oppose the others but without any competent dragon riders they are no match. Euron tries to ride Drogon into battle but gets horrifically burned to a crisp. Jon Snow meanwhile finds Bran who has grown into a weirwood tree and learns that Bran and the children of the forest are actually a great hive mind who protect life itself on the planet and who have deemed humankind a plague with their constant wars and cruelty. So they sent the Others to cleanse the world from humanity. Jon kills Bran who was the central lynchpin in the World Net. This instantly makes all the wights inanimate dead corpses again and leaves the Others confused and weakened. Jon returns south leading a host of night's watchmen and slaughters the remaining Others with the help of dragonglass and crucial intel that was obtained from the Citadel by a triumphantly returned Sam. Danny regains her sanity as it turns out that the Targaryen madness was a hivemind children of the forest ploy all along and marries Jon. On the wedding night, in a shocking last twist Sam reveals himself to be a faceless man,or rather woman. None other than Arya, who killed Sam in the Citadel and took on his identity to get close to Jon. She avenges her brother Bran's death by slicing Danny's throat and brutally stabbing Jon in the eye ball, stating that the children of the forest had it right all along and humanity is a disease that Bran was trying to fix until Jon ruined everything. The last thing that Jon sees before his last breath is Arya embracing their dead mother, followed by a vision of his younger brother Rickon embracing a weirwood tree and resurrecting all the corpses from the last great battlefield in Westeros. The end.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Gorefest, on 05 January 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

In a shock twist it will be Joe Abercrombie. 'A dream of spring' will be renamed 'A dream of spring blades'. Daenerys will take her dragons across the Narrow Sea and wipe out most of the great houses apart from the Dornish. The slaughter and the dragon rage will awaken her maniacal Targaryen side and she'll go madder than Aerys II. In Essos, as soon as she is gone slavery will be reinstated and all Danny sympathisers will be put in the fighting pits to perish in grisly ways, including Tyrion who in an ironic twist learns that he is impervious to fire mere seconds before a thrown torch sets alight a spectator stand, which collapses on top of him, crushing his body into a grisly pulp. The Martells find that the Targaryen that they were backing (young Aegon) is actually an illegitimate bastard son of Jon Connington and a serving wench at Griffin's Roost. Doran Martell subsequently decides to pledge fealty to Danny, but his attempt gets cut short when a ridiculously huge Kraken that lived under, or more precisely actually formed, the peninsula of Dorne, is awaked by Euron Greyjoy and pulls the entire landmass under water. Euron marries Danny, the Others break through the Wall completely unopposed because everyone was too busy down south, And everything seems lost. The dragons oppose the others but without any competent dragon riders they are no match. Euron tries to ride Drogon into battle but gets horrifically burned to a crisp. Jon Snow meanwhile finds Bran who has grown into a weirwood tree and learns that Bran and the children of the forest are actually a great hive mind who protect life itself on the planet and who have deemed humankind a plague with their constant wars and cruelty. So they sent the Others to cleanse the world from humanity. Jon kills Bran who was the central lynchpin in the World Net. This instantly makes all the wights inanimate dead corpses again and leaves the Others confused and weakened. Jon returns south leading a host of night's watchmen and slaughters the remaining Others with the help of dragonglass and crucial intel that was obtained from the Citadel by a triumphantly returned Sam. Danny regains her sanity as it turns out that the Targaryen madness was a hivemind children of the forest ploy all along and marries Jon. On the wedding night, in a shocking last twist Sam reveals himself to be a faceless man,or rather woman. None other than Arya, who killed Sam in the Citadel and took on his identity to get close to Jon. She avenges her brother Bran's death by slicing Danny's throat and brutally stabbing Jon in the eye ball, stating that the children of the forest had it right all along and humanity is a disease that Bran was trying to fix until Jon ruined everything. The last thing that Jon sees before his last breath is Arya embracing their dead mother, followed by a vision of his younger brother Rickon embracing a weirwood tree and resurrecting all the corpses from the last great battlefield in Westeros. The end.

what did i just read... holy shit

[Andorion]

Gorefest, on 05 January 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

In a shock twist it will be Joe Abercrombie. 'A dream of spring' will be renamed 'A dream of spring blades'. Daenerys will take her dragons across the Narrow Sea and wipe out most of the great houses apart from the Dornish. The slaughter and the dragon rage will awaken her maniacal Targaryen side and she'll go madder than Aerys II. In Essos, as soon as she is gone slavery will be reinstated and all Danny sympathisers will be put in the fighting pits to perish in grisly ways, including Tyrion who in an ironic twist learns that he is impervious to fire mere seconds before a thrown torch sets alight a spectator stand, which collapses on top of him, crushing his body into a grisly pulp. The Martells find that the Targaryen that they were backing (young Aegon) is actually an illegitimate bastard son of Jon Connington and a serving wench at Griffin's Roost. Doran Martell subsequently decides to pledge fealty to Danny, but his attempt gets cut short when a ridiculously huge Kraken that lived under, or more precisely actually formed, the peninsula of Dorne, is awaked by Euron Greyjoy and pulls the entire landmass under water. Euron marries Danny, the Others break through the Wall completely unopposed because everyone was too busy down south, And everything seems lost. The dragons oppose the others but without any competent dragon riders they are no match. Euron tries to ride Drogon into battle but gets horrifically burned to a crisp. Jon Snow meanwhile finds Bran who has grown into a weirwood tree and learns that Bran and the children of the forest are actually a great hive mind who protect life itself on the planet and who have deemed humankind a plague with their constant wars and cruelty. So they sent the Others to cleanse the world from humanity. Jon kills Bran who was the central lynchpin in the World Net. This instantly makes all the wights inanimate dead corpses again and leaves the Others confused and weakened. Jon returns south leading a host of night's watchmen and slaughters the remaining Others with the help of dragonglass and crucial intel that was obtained from the Citadel by a triumphantly returned Sam. Danny regains her sanity as it turns out that the Targaryen madness was a hivemind children of the forest ploy all along and marries Jon. On the wedding night, in a shocking last twist Sam reveals himself to be a faceless man,or rather woman. None other than Arya, who killed Sam in the Citadel and took on his identity to get close to Jon. She avenges her brother Bran's death by slicing Danny's throat and brutally stabbing Jon in the eye ball, stating that the children of the forest had it right all along and humanity is a disease that Bran was trying to fix until Jon ruined everything. The last thing that Jon sees before his last breath is Arya embracing their dead mother, followed by a vision of his younger brother Rickon embracing a weirwood tree and resurrecting all the corpses from the last great battlefield in Westeros. The end.

This would be an ultra-cool ending!

[Abyss]

Gorefest, on 05 January 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

In a shock twist it will be Joe Abercrombie. 'A dream of spring' will be renamed 'A dream of spring blades'. Daenerys will take her dragons across the Narrow Sea and wipe out most of the great houses apart from the Dornish. The slaughter and the dragon rage will awaken her maniacal Targaryen side and she'll go madder than Aerys II. In Essos, as soon as she is gone slavery will be reinstated and all Danny sympathisers will be put in the fighting pits to perish in grisly ways, including Tyrion who in an ironic twist learns that he is impervious to fire mere seconds before a thrown torch sets alight a spectator stand, which collapses on top of him, crushing his body into a grisly pulp. The Martells find that the Targaryen that they were backing (young Aegon) is actually an illegitimate bastard son of Jon Connington and a serving wench at Griffin's Roost. Doran Martell subsequently decides to pledge fealty to Danny, but his attempt gets cut short when a ridiculously huge Kraken that lived under, or more precisely actually formed, the peninsula of Dorne, is awaked by Euron Greyjoy and pulls the entire landmass under water. Euron marries Danny, the Others break through the Wall completely unopposed because everyone was too busy down south, And everything seems lost. The dragons oppose the others but without any competent dragon riders they are no match. Euron tries to ride Drogon into battle but gets horrifically burned to a crisp. Jon Snow meanwhile finds Bran who has grown into a weirwood tree and learns that Bran and the children of the forest are actually a great hive mind who protect life itself on the planet and who have deemed humankind a plague with their constant wars and cruelty. So they sent the Others to cleanse the world from humanity. Jon kills Bran who was the central lynchpin in the World Net. This instantly makes all the wights inanimate dead corpses again and leaves the Others confused and weakened. Jon returns south leading a host of night's watchmen and slaughters the remaining Others with the help of dragonglass and crucial intel that was obtained from the Citadel by a triumphantly returned Sam. Danny regains her sanity as it turns out that the Targaryen madness was a hivemind children of the forest ploy all along and marries Jon. On the wedding night, in a shocking last twist Sam reveals himself to be a faceless man,or rather woman. None other than Arya, who killed Sam in the Citadel and took on his identity to get close to Jon. She avenges her brother Bran's death by slicing Danny's throat and brutally stabbing Jon in the eye ball, stating that the children of the forest had it right all along and humanity is a disease that Bran was trying to fix until Jon ruined everything. The last thing that Jon sees before his last breath is Arya embracing their dead mother, followed by a vision of his younger brother Rickon embracing a weirwood tree and resurrecting all the corpses from the last great battlefield in Westeros. The end.

Needs more feasts.

[blackzoid]

I really like Gorefests insane "dont need paragraphs" ending. I'll now be really disappointed when it doesn't happen that way in the show/books.
But I can hope.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 05 January 2016 - 11:15 AM

[Serenity]

Gorefest, on 05 January 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

In a shock twist it will be Joe Abercrombie. 'A dream of spring' will be renamed 'A dream of spring blades'. Daenerys will take her dragons across the Narrow Sea and wipe out most of the great houses apart from the Dornish. The slaughter and the dragon rage will awaken her maniacal Targaryen side and she'll go madder than Aerys II. In Essos, as soon as she is gone slavery will be reinstated and all Danny sympathisers will be put in the fighting pits to perish in grisly ways, including Tyrion who in an ironic twist learns that he is impervious to fire mere seconds before a thrown torch sets alight a spectator stand, which collapses on top of him, crushing his body into a grisly pulp. The Martells find that the Targaryen that they were backing (young Aegon) is actually an illegitimate bastard son of Jon Connington and a serving wench at Griffin's Roost. Doran Martell subsequently decides to pledge fealty to Danny, but his attempt gets cut short when a ridiculously huge Kraken that lived under, or more precisely actually formed, the peninsula of Dorne, is awaked by Euron Greyjoy and pulls the entire landmass under water. Euron marries Danny, the Others break through the Wall completely unopposed because everyone was too busy down south, And everything seems lost. The dragons oppose the others but without any competent dragon riders they are no match. Euron tries to ride Drogon into battle but gets horrifically burned to a crisp. Jon Snow meanwhile finds Bran who has grown into a weirwood tree and learns that Bran and the children of the forest are actually a great hive mind who protect life itself on the planet and who have deemed humankind a plague with their constant wars and cruelty. So they sent the Others to cleanse the world from humanity. Jon kills Bran who was the central lynchpin in the World Net. This instantly makes all the wights inanimate dead corpses again and leaves the Others confused and weakened. Jon returns south leading a host of night's watchmen and slaughters the remaining Others with the help of dragonglass and crucial intel that was obtained from the Citadel by a triumphantly returned Sam. Danny regains her sanity as it turns out that the Targaryen madness was a hivemind children of the forest ploy all along and marries Jon. On the wedding night, in a shocking last twist Sam reveals himself to be a faceless man,or rather woman. None other than Arya, who killed Sam in the Citadel and took on his identity to get close to Jon. She avenges her brother Bran's death by slicing Danny's throat and brutally stabbing Jon in the eye ball, stating that the children of the forest had it right all along and humanity is a disease that Bran was trying to fix until Jon ruined everything. The last thing that Jon sees before his last breath is Arya embracing their dead mother, followed by a vision of his younger brother Rickon embracing a weirwood tree and resurrecting all the corpses from the last great battlefield in Westeros. The end.

How many years did it take you to write that?

[Aptorian]

Some say he is still writing to this day.

[Arthur Dayne]

If ASoIaF doesn't end this way I will be GREATLY SADDENED.


GREATLY.


SADDENED.

[Arthur Dayne]

Apt, on 04 January 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

God knows I've said some pretty mean things about Terry Goodkind once or twice.

Once or twice...

Indeed.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Gorefest, on 05 January 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

In a shock twist it will be Joe Abercrombie. 'A dream of spring' will be renamed 'A dream of spring blades'. Daenerys will take her dragons across the Narrow Sea and wipe out most of the great houses apart from the Dornish. The slaughter and the dragon rage will awaken her maniacal Targaryen side and she'll go madder than Aerys II. In Essos, as soon as she is gone slavery will be reinstated and all Danny sympathisers will be put in the fighting pits to perish in grisly ways, including Tyrion who in an ironic twist learns that he is impervious to fire mere seconds before a thrown torch sets alight a spectator stand, which collapses on top of him, crushing his body into a grisly pulp. The Martells find that the Targaryen that they were backing (young Aegon) is actually an illegitimate bastard son of Jon Connington and a serving wench at Griffin's Roost. Doran Martell subsequently decides to pledge fealty to Danny, but his attempt gets cut short when a ridiculously huge Kraken that lived under, or more precisely actually formed, the peninsula of Dorne, is awaked by Euron Greyjoy and pulls the entire landmass under water. Euron marries Danny, the Others break through the Wall completely unopposed because everyone was too busy down south, And everything seems lost. The dragons oppose the others but without any competent dragon riders they are no match. Euron tries to ride Drogon into battle but gets horrifically burned to a crisp. Jon Snow meanwhile finds Bran who has grown into a weirwood tree and learns that Bran and the children of the forest are actually a great hive mind who protect life itself on the planet and who have deemed humankind a plague with their constant wars and cruelty. So they sent the Others to cleanse the world from humanity. Jon kills Bran who was the central lynchpin in the World Net. This instantly makes all the wights inanimate dead corpses again and leaves the Others confused and weakened. Jon returns south leading a host of night's watchmen and slaughters the remaining Others with the help of dragonglass and crucial intel that was obtained from the Citadel by a triumphantly returned Sam. Danny regains her sanity as it turns out that the Targaryen madness was a hivemind children of the forest ploy all along and marries Jon. On the wedding night, in a shocking last twist Sam reveals himself to be a faceless man,or rather woman. None other than Arya, who killed Sam in the Citadel and took on his identity to get close to Jon. She avenges her brother Bran's death by slicing Danny's throat and brutally stabbing Jon in the eye ball, stating that the children of the forest had it right all along and humanity is a disease that Bran was trying to fix until Jon ruined everything. The last thing that Jon sees before his last breath is Arya embracing their dead mother, followed by a vision of his younger brother Rickon embracing a weirwood tree and resurrecting all the corpses from the last great battlefield in Westeros. The end.

Sign me up - I'd read that!

[Gorefest]

Abyss, on 05 January 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Needs more feasts.

Two weddings, man, I'm already stretching Abercrombie's festive side to its max.

[Cause]

I sometimes wonder if all his other projects, books, conventions and declining quality of a game of thrones don't perhaps indicate that he has to some degree become bored of his most popular work.

[Tsundoku]

Tiste Simeon, on 03 January 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

I think the only person who cares less than me about this series now is GRRM...

Cause, on 08 January 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

I sometimes wonder if all his other projects, books, conventions and declining quality of a game of thrones don't perhaps indicate that he has to some degree become bored of his most popular work.

Throw in the pressure over this monster he's created and he probably feels he's in a Catch-22.